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The Inconvenient Science of Racial DNA Profiling
LimbicNutrition Weblog ^ | October 5, 2007 | Melba Newsome

Posted on 11/02/2007 1:13:45 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum

On July 16, 2002, a survey crew from the Department of Transportation found Pam Kinamore's nude, decomposing body in the area along the banks of the Mississippi known as Whiskey Bay, just west of Baton Rouge. The police tested the DNA and quickly realized that they were dealing with a serial killer: the same man who had killed two other white, middle-class women in the area.

The FBI, Louisiana State Police, Baton Rouge Police Department and sheriff's departments soon began a massive search. Based on an FBI profile and a confident eyewitness, the Multi-Agency Homicide Task Force futilely upended South Louisiana in search of a young white man who drove a white pick-up truck. They interrogated possible suspects, knocked on hundreds of doors, held frequent press conferences and sorted through thousands of tips.

In late December, after a fourth murder, police set up a dragnet to obtain DNA from some 1200 white men. Authorities spent months and more than a million dollars running those samples against the killer's. Still nothing.

In early March, 2003, investigators turned to Tony Frudakis, a molecular biologist who said he could determine the killer's race by analyzing his DNA. They were unsure about the science, so, before giving him the go-ahead, the task force sent Frudakis DNA swabs taken from 20 people whose race they knew and asked him to determine their races through blind testing. He nailed every single one.

Still, when they gathered in the Baton Rouge police department for a conference call with Frudakis in mid-March, they were not prepared to hear or accept his conclusions about the killer.

"Your guy has substantial African ancestry," said Frudakis. "He could be Afro-Caribbean or African American but there is no chance that this is a Caucasian. No chance at all."

There was a prolonged, stunned silence, followed by a flurry of questions looking for doubt but Frudakis had none. Would he bet his life on this, they wanted to know? Absolutely. In fact, he was certain that the Baton Rouge serial killer was 85 percent Sub-Saharan African and 15 percent native American.

"This means we're going to turn our investigation in an entirely different direction," Frudakis recalls someone saying. "Are you comfortable with that?"

"Yes. I recommend you do that," he said. And now, rather than later since, in the time it took Frudakis to analyze the sample, the killer had claimed his fifth victim. The task force followed Frudakis' advice and, two months later, the killer was in custody.

Colorblind CODIS, Genetic Drift

Tony Frudakis first heard about the Baton Rouge serial killer just like everyone else outside of Louisiana -- on cable news. As months went by, the body count climbed, Frudakis followed the case, thinking "why on earth can't they catch this guy?"

Several years earlier, Frudakis' father was shot when he confronted a would-be car thief in the driveway of his Long Beach, California, home. The thief escaped but dropped his driver's license at the scene and was apprehended quickly. The serial killer had also left behind his identification in his DNA but, unlike a driver's license, his genetic ID revealed nothing about his physical characteristics -- or at least it revealed nothing the police could use.

The DNA forensic products available at the time could only be used to match DNA specimens in the CODIS, or Combined DNA Index System, database which contains about 5 million DNA profiles. If investigators have a crime scene sample but no suspect, they run it against those in the database to see if it matches a sample already on file.

But while CODIS is good at linking the criminals who are already catalogued from other crimes, the system is useless in identifying physical characteristics. It says nothing about race. It has been specifically set up to reveal no racial information whatsoever, in part so that the test would be consistently accurate irrespective of race.

But non-scientific considerations also factored into how the system was established. When the national DNA Advisory Board selected the gene markers, or DNA sequences which have a known location on a chromosome, for CODIS, they deliberately chose not to include markers associated with ancestral geographic origins to avoid any political maelstrom.

DNAWitness, the test Frudakis applied in the Baton Rouge case, uses a set of 176 genetic markers selected precisely because they disclose the most information about physical characteristics. Some are found primarily in people of African heritage, while others are found mainly in people of Indo-European, Native American or South Asian heritage.

No one sequence alone can predict ancestral origin. However, by looking collectively at hundreds and analyzing the frequency of the various markers, Frudakis says he could predict genetic ancestry with 99 percent accuracy.

Based on paleoarcheological evidence and other kinds of DNA testing, scientists believe we are all derived from populations that started in Africa and migrated out some 200,000 years ago. They first settled in the Fertile Crescent, the historic region of the Middle East flanked by the Mediterranean on the west and the Euphrates and Tigris rivers on the east.

Various offshoots went in every direction and eventually crossed the Bearing Strait to America and the populations became sexually isolated. This process, known as genetic drift, caused markers to evolve at different frequencies in different populations and gave rise to the ethnic diversity we see today.

"There is tremendous genetic diversity among other species of animals but not among humans because our common history is so recent," he explains. "We're 99.9 percent identical at the level of our DNA. It's the .1 percent that makes us different and about 1 percent of that .1 percent is different as a function of our differing history." Frudakis mines that .001 percent to find distinctive differences that determine genetic ancestry.

Using essentially the same science, DNAPrint helped Oprah Winfrey, Whoopi Goldberg, Quincy Jones and Chris Tucker trace their lineage back to Africa for the four-part PBS series, African American Lives. It's also how, days after the body of 26-year-old Carrie Lynn Yoder was found at Whiskey Bay, Frudakis was able to conclude to a statistical certainty that the killer was black.

Racial DNA Profile Leads to Killer

The results from DNAPrint sent the task force scrambling back to earlier tips about non-white suspects. Three days before Pam Kinamore's abduction, a black man had tried to rape and murder Diane Alexander in her home. She survived because her son returned home and interrupted the attack. Alexander sustained cuts, fractures and stab wounds but was able to describe the man in detail. Police never bothered to test the DNA her attacker left behind. Her case could not possibly be linked to the other murders, they reasoned, because the suspect was black.

The police had also refused to listen to the pleadings of Collette Dwyer, who thought she might know the serial killer's identity: Derrick Todd Lee, a 34 year-old black man with an extensive rap sheet for domestic violence, assault, stalking and peeping. Lee had stalked Dwyer for two years after meeting her at the seafood shop where she worked. One day, he pushed his way into her apartment, got a drink of water and told her he wanted to "take care" of her.

Lee was arrested after her two children chased him and noticed he had a gun. He was sent to prison for two years. Dwyer called police after Pace's murder in May, Kinamore's in July and again in September following the release of the FBI profile. The police talked to Lee but didn't bother to take DNA since they were looking for a white man.

But after the conference call with Frudakis, Lee jumped to the top of the suspect list. They got a subpoena for his DNA, collected a cheek swab and a day later, they had their answer: he was their man. Lee skipped town just ahead of the arrest warrant but was tracked down in Atlanta and returned to Baton Rouge within days. "CAUGHT" declared the Baton Rouge Advocate in giant print.

Relatives of the victims described their thrill and relief that a dangerous killer was finally off the streets, but also frustration that it has taken so long. Few people knew that the most crucial piece of evidence was not unearthed by the hapless task force or forensic scientists but by a drug developer some 800 miles away.

DNAWitness Does Forensics

It takes me a while to find DNAPrint Genomics in spite of its address on one of the main thoroughfares in Sarasota. The company is hidden in a small industrial park behind a chain-link fence across from a busy convenience store. The office suite is marked by a sign leaning against one wall and a laminated sheet of paper with the word 'DNAPrint' taped to the glass entry door. The reception area is sparsely furnished, decorated only with certificates and plaques.

I am late for my appointment but Frudakis is later. He is out to lunch and arrives 15 minutes after me. Carrying his lunch bag and dressed in jeans, hiking shoes and a muted floral shirt, he looks more like a grad student than a chief scientific officer responsible for some groundbreaking advancement. While the office is less than I expect, Frudakis is more -- funny, self-effacing and candid about his life and work than I expect.

Frudakis earned a PhD in molecular and cell biology from UC Berkeley in 1995. He spent several years as a research scientist for Corixa Corporation in Seattle before starting his own company to develop genomics-based or targeted drugs. The company's first drug is PT-401, a synthetic version of the hormone produced by the kidney to promote red-blood-cell production. It can be used to treat chemotherapy patients and anemia in people with end-stage renal disease. PT-401 made it through the pre-IND stage, which comes after animal testing and before Phase I trials, before the company ran out of money.

With drug approval years away and a gaggle of impatient investors, Frudakis shifted his focus to forensics in an effort to stay afloat. The same markers used to infer clinical characteristics relevant for drug development could also be used to infer phenotype or physical characteristics that could prove invaluable in forensics.

By the time he approached the Baton Rouge task force, DNAPrint had already performed hundreds of dry runs on the test. Its scientists studied family pedigree to make sure the ancestry traits they were measuring were indeed passed from one generation to the next. They conducted population studies, verified the repeatability of the test, determined the minimum amount of DNA required and completed more than a 1000 blind trials for various police departments.

When the serial killer's DNA sample arrived at the Sarasota lab, technicians isolated and amplified the 176 markers, cleaned them up to remove any primers or other agents, then used the molecular address to study the sequences at each site. The resulting products were then deposited into a micro array and scanned by a Beckman SNPstream. The output was then reviewed and subjected to quality-control checks. Finally, the scores were calculated and compiled into a report for the task force.

Since 2003, DNAWitness has been used in more than 150 criminal cases all across the country and in London. Most remain unresolved. In several others, however, the science played a crucial role in narrowing the suspect field and ultimately led to an arrest. Kansas City, Missouri, police spent four years trying to identify the body of a 3-year-old black girl. Frudakis determined that the child had one white grandparent, a clue that ultimately led to the child's mother, a biracial Oklahoma woman.

When two women were murdered in Napa, California, Frudakis applied a more advanced version of DNAWitness that uses 1349 genetic markers to peg the killer as 97 percent Northern European. "The accuracy of the test was right on," says Napa police commander, Jeff Tromley. "They described the suspect as a blue-eyed, blond-haired, white male. When he walked in to the police station, he was a blue-eyed, blonde-haired white man."

DNA Profiling - Pricey and Dicey

You would think that proven success in solving these types of horrific crimes would make this technology popular with police, scientists, defense attorneys and prosecutors alike. But it hasn't.

The most obvious obstacle is price. Cmdr. Tromley, for example, has a positive opinion of DNAWitness but adds that this does not necessarily mean his department will use it very often. "This is a pretty niche product. An in-depth analysis could run from $1500 to $3000. If you don't need that, then you probably won't go that far," he says.

Besides the expense, many people who might benefit from DNAWitness either don't know it exists or are extremely skeptical that it works. William C. Thompson, Chair of the Department of Criminology, Law & Society at UC Irvine is a prominent expert on the use of DNA in criminal trials but was only marginally familiar with this technology. When I tried to describe how it works, he literally screamed at me, calling Frudakis a hack and a charlatan who obviously did not understand statistics.

But even those who believe this can be done are conflicted about whether it should be done. History is replete with examples of injustices and inequities that were conscripted into law based on racial classification. The Civil Rights movement of the 1960's succeeded in ending legal racial discrimination, in large measure, by downplaying the significance of race and racial differences. By the mid-1990s prominent academics and sociologists even went so far as to say that race did not exist at all.

"Race is a social construct, not a scientific classification," said an editorial in the May 3, 2001 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine, adding that "In medicine, there is only one race -- the human race."

Then, along comes Frudakis with a science that seems to be saying the opposite.

New York University professor Troy Duster is a member of the advisory committee on the Ethical, Legal and Social Issues program at the National Human Genome Research Institute and president of the American Sociological Association. Duster, who has written extensively on race and genetics, including the book Back Door to Eugenics, worries about the proverbial slippery slope.

"Once we start talking about predicting racial background from genetics, it's not much of a leap to talking about how people perform based on their DNA -- why they committed that rape or stole that car or scored higher on that IQ test," says Duster. "In this society where race is such a powerful idea, once you head down this path toward predicting race, will the next step be predicting racial behavior?"

Narrowing the Suspect Field

Frudakis, not surprisingly, takes great pains to explain that those concerns are overblown. "Our technology is based on the notion that we all share a common ancestry to Africa from a couple hundred thousand years ago, that we are all part of the same family tree," he says. He also counters critics who say DNAWitness is a high-tech form of racial profiling. "This is analyzing data derived from a crime scene. It's a way for police to narrow down their suspect lists. It isn't used as evidence in trials."

Nevertheless, DNAPrint is still floundering. He says the National Institutes for Justice denied his grant application because it believed that this is work that should be left to the government. It's not clear that the company will be in business a year from now, or even six months.

"Forensics stinks as a business," Frudakis says bluntly. "Most of the testing is done by government labs with very little opportunity for private enterprise. If people valued what we did more, we would have the funds to expand the databases, learn about more phenotypes, develop more genetic screens, build more software systems."

Frudakis still hopes that the company will be able to invest in more research. RETINOME which predicts iris color with 96 percent accuracy is on the market and was used very effectively in the Napa murder case. He has identified the gene sequences associated with height, and has compiled a database of 5000 digital photographs of people with almost every racial ancestry combination -- which, one day, he says could allow him to construct a physical portrait of a DNA donor, including melanin content, skin color or eye color.

But even the people one might think should be his biggest allies aren't supporting that, including Tony Clayton, the special prosecutor who tried one of the Baton Rouge murder cases. Clayton, who is black, admits that he initially dismissed Frudakis as some white guy trying to substantiate his racist views. He no longer believes that and says "had it not been for Frudakis, we would still be looking for the white guy in the white pick-up truck." But then he adds, "We've been taught that we're all the same, that we bleed the same blood. If you subscribe to the (Frudakis) theory, you're saying we are inherently unequal."

He continues: "If I could push a button and make this technology disappear, I would."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: dna; dnawitness; frudakis; race; racerelations; races; racial; racist; racists
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1 posted on 11/02/2007 1:13:47 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I can predict propensity to commit crimes based on family life, education, and school problems—IOW, on one’s background culture.

Immigrant blacks to this country have low crime rates, high marriage rates, and success in education.

Native-born blacks do poorly in all the above categories.

That’s culture, not race. (Meaning, it doesn’t have to be that way.)

But as long as convincing people they’re victims results in power for a few demagogues, nothing is going to change...


2 posted on 11/02/2007 1:27:40 PM PDT by CondorFlight (I)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
The Inconvenient Science of Racial DNA Profiling

Science and police instincts are to racial profiling as Western Society is to a bunny delivering eggs during Easter.

3 posted on 11/02/2007 1:30:57 PM PDT by kipita (“Love” is to humanity as gravitons are to an infinite # of universes.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
He says the National Institutes for Justice denied his grant application because it believed that this is work that should be left to the government.

Despicable mentality on the part of the NIJ but then Frudakis should take the lesson and try for more non-grant business/funding.

4 posted on 11/02/2007 1:32:44 PM PDT by decimon
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To: martin_fierro

Genetic Genealogy Ping


5 posted on 11/02/2007 1:33:13 PM PDT by Fractal Trader (.)
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http://www.dnawitness.net/
6 posted on 11/02/2007 1:37:23 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Muslims reserve the right to kill anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
But then he adds, "We've been taught that we're all the same, that we bleed the same blood. If you subscribe to the (Frudakis) theory, you're saying we are inherently unequal."

He continues: "If I could push a button and make this technology disappear, I would."

That's the key point right there - you have scads of idiots out there who would rather pretend that race doesn't exist than try to grapple with it in a realistic and rational manner. They automatically assume that saying people are "different" from each other is the same as saying they are "unequal" (in a political or moral sense). What rubbish. Races exist. We are not all the same as everyone else. The genetics prove it. To even suggest eliminating what could potentially be a superb investigative tool, as this Clayton fool does, all on the basis that "it's racist to say there are different races", is idiocy at its most monstrous. People's lives are at stake, and Clayton would like to eliminate this tool because he feels personally offended by it. What a scumbag.

7 posted on 11/02/2007 1:38:20 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives - Freedom WITH responsibility; Libertarians - Freedom FROM responsibility)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Still, when they gathered in the Baton Rouge police department for a conference call with Frudakis in mid-March, they were not prepared to hear or accept his conclusions about the killer.

...

When the national DNA Advisory Board selected the gene markers, or DNA sequences which have a known location on a chromosome, for CODIS, they deliberately chose not to include markers associated with ancestral geographic origins to avoid any political maelstrom.

...

William C. Thompson, Chair of the Department of Criminology, Law & Society at UC Irvine is a prominent expert on the use of DNA in criminal trials but was only marginally familiar with this technology. When I tried to describe how it works, he literally screamed at me, calling Frudakis a hack and a charlatan who obviously did not understand statistics.

...

But even the people one might think should be his biggest allies aren't supporting that, including Tony Clayton, the special prosecutor who tried one of the Baton Rouge murder cases. Clayton, who is black, admits that he initially dismissed Frudakis as some white guy trying to substantiate his racist views. He no longer believes that and says "had it not been for Frudakis, we would still be looking for the white guy in the white pick-up truck." But then he adds, "We've been taught that we're all the same, that we bleed the same blood. If you subscribe to the (Frudakis) theory, you're saying we are inherently unequal."

He continues: "If I could push a button and make this technology disappear, I would."

Lord help us with these morons in charge. Weak, emotional fools.

8 posted on 11/02/2007 1:38:25 PM PDT by M203M4 (The Tancredo, Thompson, and Hunter wing of the party - preventing the Rs from Whigging out.)
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To: CondorFlight
Immigrant blacks to this country have low crime rates, high marriage rates, and success in education.

Native-born blacks do poorly in all the above categories.

The reason is because their relatives were never slaves. In fact, America is the only country in the world that had slaves. So, given this fact, America has to take care of its former slaves forever. That's why we need "leaders" like Jesse and Al to fight for us. /sarc off

9 posted on 11/02/2007 1:39:12 PM PDT by kipita (“Love” is to humanity as gravitons are to an infinite # of universes.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
he was certain that the Baton Rouge serial killer was 85 percent Sub-Saharan African and 15 percent native American.

I'm no statistician but how do you get 15% native American? Don't the fractions have to be mutiples of eighths, sixteenths, thirtyseconds, etc.?

10 posted on 11/02/2007 1:43:28 PM PDT by VA Voter
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To: VA Voter

Or sums thereof, i.e.

1/8 + 1/64 + 1/128


11 posted on 11/02/2007 1:49:01 PM PDT by M203M4 (The Tancredo, Thompson, and Hunter wing of the party - preventing the Rs from Whigging out.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Most of the testing is done by government labs with very little opportunity for private enterprise.

Private labs are used sometimes, such as the one Nifong used in Durham. Frudakis could have solved that case quickly, but of course, that worthless police department wouldn't have been interested in the truth any more than Baton Rouge was.

12 posted on 11/02/2007 1:50:01 PM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Image and video hosting by TinyPic
"My mind's made up. Don't confuse me with facts."
13 posted on 11/02/2007 1:52:18 PM PDT by Old Seadog (Inside every old person is a young person saying "WTF happened?".)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Perfect illustration of the fact that many people are so mind-numbed by PC that they refuse to accept the truth when it is undeniable.
You know they won’t use this again because of political pressure!


14 posted on 11/02/2007 1:52:19 PM PDT by Leftism is Mentally Deranged
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
So, if this source is credible (it's a blog about food), it seems that 'race' can be determined sometimes by DNA. Have this guy try to racially profile Central Asians, North Africans (indigenous), East Africans, southwestern Asians, south Asians, or south Europeans, and see if he gets such firm matches.

He's probably using genetic markers. No big news there. A European's genome could still be closest matched to an African's and vice versa.

15 posted on 11/02/2007 1:52:29 PM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
"What a scumbag."

You don't say.....

No individual human (separated by race or other factors) is the same--should be blindingly obvious. However, the propensities for various traits are not so clear cut that you can separate humanity into the current 'races.' You could separate by phenotype (and get more or less the current 'races'). You could separate by blood type. You could separate by IQ. You could separate by right or left handedness. You could separate by the genetic defect which makes some foods bitter to some people and not so bitter to others. Ditto for the ability to roll your tongue.

If you're a Christian, then Biblically, you'd recognize there being two 'races,' Christians and non-Christians.

P.S. And the genetics definitely do not prove 'it.' The genetics show that while particular genes are concentrated in some groups more than others, almost all genes are spread to varying degrees across the race.

16 posted on 11/02/2007 2:00:25 PM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
So, if this source is credible (it's a blog about food)

The source turns out to be Wired, if you click the link at the bottom.

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/10/dnaprint

17 posted on 11/02/2007 2:01:10 PM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Great article! The headline should read

Politics trumps science...again

As a veteran of defense acquisition wars, I recommend his company charge a red tape and bs tolerance surcharge for any work done for the gubmint.

18 posted on 11/02/2007 2:01:21 PM PDT by OldCorps
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
You missed this gem:

Clayton, who is black, admits that he initially dismissed Frudakis as some white guy trying to substantiate his racist views.

It's so reassuring to know that our special prosecutors are unbiased and racism free.

19 posted on 11/02/2007 2:02:40 PM PDT by Diplomat (Tags are for the lazy)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
If you subscribe to the (Frudakis) theory, you're saying we are inherently unequal

The schools this idiot went to should be burned to the ground. What in the name of Bill Clinton's underwear does clause "A" have to do with clause "B?"

This is so typical of Politically Correct Class Mole thinking: i.e., different must mean "unequal."

20 posted on 11/02/2007 2:03:38 PM PDT by Zerodown (Draft Petraeus. Or how about Pace? What do you say we win this one?)
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To: VA Voter
In theory, you could add a plurality of fractions to get some number approaching 15% (1/8 + 1/32 is close to 15%).

And to 'all:' The 'oppressed' (in their demented views) semi-racists have yet again inundated a thread--and apparently automatically accepted an article coming from a blog about food simply because it fit with their stupid viewpoint).

21 posted on 11/02/2007 2:06:48 PM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
And to 'all:' The 'oppressed' (in their demented views) semi-racists have yet again inundated a thread--and apparently automatically accepted an article coming from a blog about food simply because it fit with their stupid viewpoint).

Specifically, which posters are you referring to with this statement? If you want to find a racist, just look into a mirror.

22 posted on 11/02/2007 2:09:35 PM PDT by Diplomat
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“Race is a social construct, not a scientific classification,” said an editorial in the May 3, 2001 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine”

Utter BS.


23 posted on 11/02/2007 2:09:54 PM PDT by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

So you’re so much smarter than those you are attempting to put down, that you failed to notice that the real article is from Wired, and not from a food blog? Okey-dokey!

The Inconvenient Science of Racial DNA Profiling
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/10/dnaprint?currentPage=all


24 posted on 11/02/2007 2:14:58 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
Have this guy try to racially profile Central Asians, North Africans (indigenous), East Africans, southwestern Asians, south Asians, or south Europeans, and see if he gets such firm matches.

"They were unsure about the science, so, before giving him the go-ahead, the task force sent Frudakis DNA swabs taken from 20 people whose race they knew and asked him to determine their races through blind testing. He nailed every single one."

25 posted on 11/02/2007 2:17:34 PM PDT by FoxInSocks
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
This is not hard to figure out at all.

My yDNA is R1b as are 90% of the Irish. My DYS390 marker is 23 which indicates I'm from the Denmark area. The R1b Irish have DYS390-24.

My mtDNA is 'V' as are 50% of the Finland Sami.

African Ancestry

26 posted on 11/02/2007 2:21:48 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

This could be as revolutionary as the book “The Bell Curve” was!


27 posted on 11/02/2007 2:22:19 PM PDT by 2harddrive (...House a TOTAL Loss.....)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Why is it that thet keep looking for a white man in a white van in these cases anyway? That seems like a type of profiling in and of itself.


28 posted on 11/02/2007 2:31:51 PM PDT by LongTimeMILurker
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To: M203M4

“Lord help us with these morons in charge. Weak, emotional fools.”

Those are the people who got into college, then law school. For every one of them, there is at least one better person who was denied the seat because of the color of his skin or his sex.


29 posted on 11/02/2007 2:34:48 PM PDT by dsc (There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. Edmund Burke)
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To: kipita
Keep in mind, as Dr. Thomas Sowell has ably pointed out, that Black families were mostly nuclear, with high rates of school completion and low rates of crime, 100 years ago. Since that is true, the degeneration of Black culture in America cannot have anything to do with slavery.

John / Billybob

30 posted on 11/02/2007 2:43:14 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (www.ArmorforCongress.com)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
That's the key point right there - you have scads of idiots out there right here on Free Republic, an ostensibly conservative site who would rather pretend that race doesn't exist than try to grapple with it in a realistic and rational manner.
31 posted on 11/02/2007 2:46:45 PM PDT by wardaddy (This country is being destroyed by folks who could have never created it.)
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To: Congressman Billybob

nice BB.


32 posted on 11/02/2007 2:48:27 PM PDT by wardaddy (This country is being destroyed by folks who could have never created it.)
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To: Congressman Billybob
Brazil was the last country to abolish slavery.

If slavery is responsible for the decrease of intelligence, then the blacks in Brazil must be the dumbest people on Earth.

Giggle, I do not believe that for one second!

33 posted on 11/02/2007 2:52:49 PM PDT by Hunble
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To: Congressman Billybob
Since that is true, the degeneration of Black culture in America cannot have anything to do with slavery.

Without being sarcastic this time, I tend to think that the "perception of US slavery", which was created in 1960s, has a lot to do with current Black culture in America. Moreover, the predictable products of this "identity" causes a predictable reactionary inferior-superior-guilt complex among whites in America and shame to many blacks who have been strong enough to not fall into the perception trap. Pretty sad indeed!

34 posted on 11/02/2007 3:21:02 PM PDT by kipita (“Love” is to humanity as gravitons are to an infinite # of universes.)
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To: LongTimeMILurker

There is a reference to “a confident eyewitness” and FBI profiling. Apparently neither was worth spit.


35 posted on 11/02/2007 3:23:08 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“He continues: ‘If I could push a button and make this technology disappear, I would.’”

What a profoundly stupid thing to say. I can’t call it ignorance because clearly the man is informed. It can only be stupidity — or racism.


36 posted on 11/02/2007 3:27:41 PM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Crom! Non-Sequitur = Pee Wee Herman.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
"we would still be looking for the white guy in the white pick-up truck"

Of course the fictional white guy has a fictional white pick-up truck, just like Charles Moose assured us that the beltway sniper was a "white guy in a white van". It's very important to stress the word "white".

37 posted on 11/02/2007 3:29:28 PM PDT by Perchant
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To: Congressman Billybob
Moreover, the predictable products of this "identity" causes a predictable reactionary inferior-superior-guilt complex among whites in America and shame to many blacks who have been strong enough to not fall into the perception trap.

Moreover, the predictable products of this "identity" causes a predictable reactionary inferior-superior-guilt complex among white conservatives, an inferior-superior-elitist complex among black and white liberals and shame to many black conservatives who have been strong enough to not fall into the perception trap.

Now it's more accurate.

38 posted on 11/02/2007 3:43:51 PM PDT by kipita (“Love” is to humanity as gravitons are to an infinite # of universes.)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu; E. Pluribus Unum
it seems that 'race' can be determined sometimes by DNA.

That is not correct. Race is always determined by DNA. Are you black, white, Asian, or a mixture? (I'm using the words here to mean race. Substitute different words if you prefer them.) Whichever you are, what determined you would be that race? Your parents, of course! What race are your children? What determined that? You and your spouse's DNA, of course.

The question is: Can we "read" DNA to determine race? The guy in this article says he can. I don't know if he can or not, but it says in the article that he got 20 out of 20 known samples right. That's fairly strong evidence that he can.

Even if he can't, it's a slam dunk certainty that someday, someone will be able to do so.

39 posted on 11/02/2007 5:08:53 PM PDT by rmh47 (Go Kats! - Got Seven? [NRA Life Member])
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To: M203M4
19/128 comes so close as to not matter (0.148).
However, don't have time to figure out the combinations to get there...
40 posted on 11/02/2007 6:50:26 PM PDT by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: LongTimeMILurker
Why is it that thet keep looking for a white man in a white van in these cases anyway? That seems like a type of profiling in and of itself.

Yes, of course, but that doesn't count.
At the risk of triggering the professional racists who love the abuse button, you simply verified what we all know.

41 posted on 11/02/2007 6:54:35 PM PDT by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
If you're a Christian, then Biblically, you'd recognize there being two 'races,' Christians and non-Christians

Did your ancestors dig their way here? That's a mighty deep hole you popped out of to deliver your ill conceived message.

42 posted on 11/02/2007 7:43:18 PM PDT by 4woodenboats (DefendOurMarines.com)
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To: Publius6961

1/8 + 1/64 + 1/128

:)


43 posted on 11/02/2007 9:25:26 PM PDT by M203M4 (The Tancredo, Thompson, and Hunter wing of the party - preventing the Rs from Whigging out.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

The ignorance associated with political correctness knows no bounds.


44 posted on 11/03/2007 7:44:38 AM PDT by ConservativeBamaFan
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Bookmark for later


45 posted on 11/03/2007 12:17:06 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
"Once we start talking about predicting racial background from genetics, it's not much of a leap to talking about how people perform based on their DNA -- why they committed that rape or stole that car or scored higher on that IQ test," says Duster. "In this society where race is such a powerful idea, once you head down this path toward predicting race, will the next step be predicting racial behavior?"
He continues: "If I could push a button and make this technology disappear, I would."

If islam doesn't do us all in, political correctness surely will.

People fear most not what they believe is true, but that what they believe is true, may not be.

Erasing it from the body of science is their usual response. That should make everyone's hair stand on end.

46 posted on 01/23/2008 12:08:14 PM PST by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: rmh47
it seems that 'race' can be determined sometimes by DNA.

Well, let's see. I am the 'race' that I am, be it black, white, yellow, red... due to the genes passed to me by my parents, all of which was decided by, um - DNA characteristics?

What scares the hell out of people is someday a scientist might discover the genetic markers for ignorance. Be a sad day in liberal-land, assuming they could get out of their own way denying it.

The day is coming folks, when what everyone knows will be revealed by a scientific test. Intelligence, like skin color, eye color, height, etc... is just another physical characteristic, and genes play a major role.

47 posted on 01/23/2008 12:12:10 PM PST by AbeKrieger (There is a special place in Hell for Lyndon Johnson.)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
So, if this source is credible (it's a blog about food), it seems that 'race' can be determined sometimes by DNA. Have this guy try to racially profile Central Asians, North Africans (indigenous), East Africans, southwestern Asians, south Asians, or south Europeans, and see if he gets such firm matches.

Never mind that he got 20 out of 20 correct. Political correct madness at its finest!

If he can't isolate an individual geographically, to a community 50 generations ago, it's not "perfect", and should be dismissed; it boggles the mind.
Where have I heard this before? And more specifically, from which political persuasion?

48 posted on 01/23/2008 12:20:28 PM PST by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
And to 'all:' The 'oppressed' (in their demented views) semi-racists have yet again inundated a thread--and apparently automatically accepted an article coming from a blog about food simply because it fit with their stupid viewpoint).

Written by a master who lives in a glass house with all the silica, lime and sodium carbonate amorphous compounds missing.

Just saying....

49 posted on 01/23/2008 12:25:21 PM PST by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
If you subscribe to the (Frudakis) theory, you're saying we are inherently unequal."

That is just inherently stupid. What if instead of finding a DNA sample, they found a hair. If it were a straight blond hair, the police would narrow their search to whites. Is that somehow 'inherently' unequal? How is it any different than when an eyewitness describes the perp as white or black or whatever? In this case, the DNA is the witness.

50 posted on 01/23/2008 12:45:38 PM PST by Ditto (Global Warming: The 21st Century's Snake Oil)
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