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Did A Comet Cause The Great Flood?
Discover Magazine ^ | 11-15-2007 | Scott Carney

Posted on 11/21/2007 2:17:23 PM PST by blam

Did a Comet Cause the Great Flood?

The universal human myth may be the first example of disaster reporting.

by Scott Carney
11-15-2007

The Fenambosy chevrons at the tip of Madagascar. Image courtesy of Dallas Abbott

The serpent’s tails coil together menacingly. A horn juts sharply from its head. The creature looks as if it might be swimming through a sea of stars. Or is it making its way up a sheer basalt cliff? For Bruce Masse, an environmental archaeologist at Los Alamos National Laboratory, there is no confusion as he looks at this ancient petroglyph, scratched into a rock by a Native American shaman. “You can’t tell me that isn’t a comet,” he says.

In Masse’s interpretation, the petroglyph commemorates a comet that streaked across the sky just a few years before Europeans came to this area of New Mexico. But that event is a minor blip compared to what he is really after. Masse believes that he has uncovered evidence that a gigantic comet crashed into the Indian Ocean several thousand years ago and nearly wiped out all life on the planet. What’s more, he thinks that clues about the catastrophe are hiding in plain sight, embedded in the creation stories of cultural groups around the world. His hypothesis depends on a major reinterpretation of many different mythologies and raises questions about how frequently major asteroid impacts occur. What scientists know about such collisions is based mainly on a limited survey of craters around the world and on the moon. Only 185 craters on Earth have been identified, and almost all are on dry land, leaving largely unexamined the 70 percent of the planet covered by water. Even among those on dry land, many of the craters have been recognized only recently. It is possible that Earth has been a target of more meteors and comets than scientists have suspected.

Masse’s epiphany came while poring over Hawaiian oral histories regarding the goddess Pele and wondering what they might reveal about the lava flows that episodically destroy human settlements and create new tracts of land. He reasoned that even though the stories are often clouded by exaggerations and mystical explanations, many may refer to actual incidents. He tested his hypothesis by cross-checking carbon-14 ages for the lava flows against dates included in royal Hawaiian genealogies. The result: Several flows matched up with the specific reigns associated with them in the oral histories. Other myths, Masse theorizes, hold similar clues.

Masse’s biggest idea is that some 5,000 years ago, a 3-mile-wide ball of rock and ice swung around the sun and smashed into the ocean off the coast of Madagascar. The ensuing cataclysm sent a series of 600-foot-high tsunamis crashing against the world’s coastlines and injected plumes of superheated water vapor and aerosol particulates into the atmosphere. Within hours, the infusion of heat and moisture blasted its way into jet streams and spawned superhurricanes that pummeled the other side of the planet. For about a week, material ejected into the atmosphere plunged the world into darkness. All told, up to 80 percent of the world’s population may have perished, making it the single most lethal event in history. Why, then, don’t we know about it? Masse contends that we do. Almost every culture has a legend about a great flood, and—with a little reading between the lines—many of them mention something like a comet on a collision course with Earth just before the disaster. The Bible describes a deluge for 40 days and 40 nights that created a flood so great that Noah was stuck in his ark for two weeks until the water subsided. In the Gilgamesh Epic, the hero of Mesopotamia saw a pillar of black smoke on the horizon before the sky went dark for a week. Afterward, a cyclone pummeled the Fertile Crescent and caused a massive flood. Myths recounted in indigenous South American cultures also tell of a great flood.

“These stories are all exactly what you would expect from the survivors of a celestial impact,” Masse says, leafing through 2,000-year-old drawings by Chinese astronomers that show comets of all shapes and sizes. “When a comet rounds the sun, oftentimes its tail is still being blown forward by the solar winds so that it actually precedes it. That is why so many descriptions of comets in mythology mention that they are wearing horns.” In India, he notes, a celestial fish described as “bright as a moonbeam,” with a horn on its head, warned of an epic flood that brought on a new age of man.

Among 175 flood myths, Masse found two of particular interest. A Hindu myth describes an alignment of the five bright planets that has happened only once in the last 5,000 years, according to computer simulations, and a Chinese story mentions that the great flood occurred at the end of the reign of Empress Nu Wa. Cross-checking historical records with astronomical data, Masse came up with a date for his event: May 10, 2807 B.C.

On its own, the mythological evidence is weak, as even Masse recognizes. “Mythology can help us hypothesize about events that might have occurred,” he says, “but to prove the reality of them, we have to go beyond myths and search for physical evidence.”

In 2004, at a conference of geologists, astronomers, and archaeologists, Masse outlined his evidence for a world-ravaging impact in the middle of the Indian Ocean. Ted Bryant, a geomorphologist at the University of Wollongong in New South Wales, Australia, was intrigued and enlisted the help of Dallas Abbott, an assistant professor at the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia University. In 2005, they formed the Holocene Impact Working Group (referring to the geological period covering the last 11,000 years) to seek out the geological signatures of a megatsunami. If a 600-foot-high wave ravages a coastline, it should leave a lot of debris behind. In the case of waves generated by asteroid impacts, the debris they leave in their wake is believed to form gigantic, wedge-shaped sandy structures—known as chevrons—that are sometimes packed with deep-oceanic microfossils dredged up by the tsunami.

When Abbott began searching satellite images on Google Earth, she saw dozens of chevrons along shorelines and inland in Africa and Asia. The shape and size of these chevrons suggest that they might have been formed by waves emanating from the impact of a comet slamming into the deep ocean off Madagascar. “The chevrons in Madagascar associated with the crater were filled with melted microfossils from the bottom of the ocean. There is no explanation for their presence other than a cosmic impact,” she says. “People are going to have to start taking this theory a lot more seriously.” The next step is to perform carbon-14 dating on the fossils to see if they are indeed 5,000 years old.

Meanwhile, Bryant contends that chevrons found (pdf) 4 miles inland from the shore of Madagascar were formed by a wave that traveled 25 miles along the coast, moving almost parallel to the shoreline. “Neither erosion nor any other terrestrial process could have caused these formations. The biggest marine landslide ever recorded happened 7,200 years ago off the coast of Norway, and there was a tsunami, but it was a far cry from leaving deposits 200 meters above sea level,” Bryant says.

Not everyone is convinced, to say the least. “I don’t believe the evidence of a crater off Madagascar, and the impetus is on Abbott to prove it,” says Jay Melosh, an impact expert at the University of Arizona and an outspoken critic of the theory. To make a case for the impact, Melosh says, Abbott “should be finding layers of glassy droplets and fused rock in sea-core samples, the sorts of things we find at all other similar impact sites.”

On the other hand, a lot remains unknown about impacts. As recently as 60 years ago, some geologists believed that the Barringer Meteor Crater in Arizona—now considered the prototypical impact scar—was caused by a volcanic explosion, and they regarded impacts as a minor if not inconsequential influence on Earth’s history. Just 25 years ago, Luis and Walter Alvarez raised eyebrows with their idea that an asteroid collision helped kill off the dinosaurs. So Abbott continues to hunt for evidence that will clinch the idea that Noah’s flood was yet another example of extraterrestrial meddling. “It is still up to us to prove it, but if we have unequivocal impact ejecta,” she says, Melosh “is going to have to eat his words.”


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; chevrons; comet; fenambosychevrons; flood; godsgravesglyphs; great; greatflood; madagascar; noahsark; tsunami; velikovsky
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1 posted on 11/21/2007 2:17:25 PM PST by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
GGG & Catastrophism Ping.

I'll look for some tree-ring data for that time.

2 posted on 11/21/2007 2:18:21 PM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

Intelligent design.


3 posted on 11/21/2007 2:20:54 PM PST by Apercu ("A man's character is his fate" - Heraclitus)
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To: blam

4 posted on 11/21/2007 2:21:46 PM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam
An Impact Event in 3114BC? The Beginning of a Turbulent Millennium.
5 posted on 11/21/2007 2:22:55 PM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

No, a comet did not cause the Flood. That would imply that G-d created it and set it on its cataclysmic journey many years before there was a sin to punish.


6 posted on 11/21/2007 2:23:21 PM PST by ari-freedom (Scientific consensus is formed by the public schools and government grants.)
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To: blam

I find it interesting that they don’t dispute the fact that there was a flood. But like every other secular “scientific” organization or publication they discount the possibility that it was caused by divine intervention in mankind’s history. The y thus break with science in that they do not explore every possible cause.


7 posted on 11/21/2007 2:25:32 PM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: blam

Your map shows a discomfiting concentration of large impact sites in North America, east of the Mississippi, moreso than any other place on Earth.


8 posted on 11/21/2007 2:26:03 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: P8riot

no, what they are doing is useful. This is just one piece of the puzzle.


9 posted on 11/21/2007 2:30:00 PM PST by ari-freedom (Scientific consensus is formed by the public schools and government grants.)
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To: RegulatorCountry

Maybe because the searchers look hardest where they have to travel leastest. Or, maybe it’s just that the searchers prefer the cheaper, decent hotels and lodgings in that area.


10 posted on 11/21/2007 2:31:28 PM PST by Grimmy (equivocation is but the first step along the road to capitulation)
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To: ari-freedom
No, a comet did not cause the Flood. That would imply that G-d created it and set it on its cataclysmic journey many years before there was a sin to punish.

It fits very well with the divine cause. If you believe that God is sovereign, and that he has pre-ordained history. He predestined mankind to sin and planned for the punishment as well.

11 posted on 11/21/2007 2:31:46 PM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: blam
The Third Millennium BC (3100-2100 BC):"
12 posted on 11/21/2007 2:32:05 PM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: ari-freedom

I prefer a very small chevron to a very large chevron. Thank you very much.


13 posted on 11/21/2007 2:32:10 PM PST by Wally_Kalbacken (Seldom right but never in doubt)
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To: P8riot

that takes away from free will. not fair to be punished over something you were forced to do.


14 posted on 11/21/2007 2:34:14 PM PST by ari-freedom (Scientific consensus is formed by the public schools and government grants.)
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To: ari-freedom
That would imply that G-d created it and set it on its cataclysmic journey many years before there was a sin to punish.

The God of the Biblical flood is all-knowing, and exists outside of time. So, there is no "before," other than from our own, linear, historical perspective, which even science is beginning to admit is more akin to an illusion.

15 posted on 11/21/2007 2:36:20 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: ari-freedom

Mankind had been around for about 1400 years when the flood happened. According to Genesis, there was plenty of sin to judge.


16 posted on 11/21/2007 2:36:20 PM PST by ovrtaxt (You're a destiny that God wrapped a body around.)
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To: blam

Immanuel Velikovsky already had this idea in the 1950’s. See his works: Worlds In Collision, Ages in Chaos and Earth In Upheaval.


17 posted on 11/21/2007 2:37:56 PM PST by Madam Theophilus
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To: ovrtaxt

yes but they wouldn’t be punished by the flood


18 posted on 11/21/2007 2:38:02 PM PST by ari-freedom (Scientific consensus is formed by the public schools and government grants.)
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To: ari-freedom

And you don’t think that God could have done that? My
God is bigger and better than your God, in that case. (if God IS God, He would know the future as well as the past)


19 posted on 11/21/2007 2:39:28 PM PST by fish hawk (The religion of Darwinism = Monkey Intellect)
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To: blam
The Bible describes a deluge for 40 days and 40 nights that created a flood so great that Noah was stuck in his ark for two weeks until the water subsided.

Just a minor point, the Bible says the water didn't subside for 150 days. I'm wondering where did he get the two weeks?

20 posted on 11/21/2007 2:39:35 PM PST by ovrtaxt (You're a destiny that God wrapped a body around.)
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To: RegulatorCountry

I think you are correct. and of course a comet can always be steered off its path ever so slighly.


21 posted on 11/21/2007 2:39:57 PM PST by ari-freedom (Scientific consensus is formed by the public schools and government grants.)
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To: Madam Theophilus
"Immanuel Velikovsky already had this idea in the 1950’s. See his works: Worlds In Collision, Ages in Chaos and Earth In Upheaval."

Thanks. I'm familiar with his work.

22 posted on 11/21/2007 2:40:30 PM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: P8riot

Guess again.


23 posted on 11/21/2007 2:42:24 PM PST by fish hawk (The religion of Darwinism = Monkey Intellect)
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To: fish hawk

well the basic problem was that everything that was created was good and how could such a comet be good...but I forgot it is also good to punish evil


24 posted on 11/21/2007 2:43:31 PM PST by ari-freedom (Scientific consensus is formed by the public schools and government grants.)
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To: ari-freedom
Too much has been made of "free will". In it's extreme it is a deistic philosophy that is at odds with the sovereignty of God. Free will is governed by the state of the soul. If that soul is non-regenerate the will of that soul is primarily evil. Sure the un-regenerate may do good things from time to time, but their nature is still evil. When a soul is being regenerated, even before conversion, the will is attuned to God and seeks to genuinely please him.

As for being unfair, well I for one am not going to arrogantly try to rationalize God's fairness, seeing that He is infinitely perfect and I am a finite created being.

25 posted on 11/21/2007 2:45:17 PM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: ari-freedom

Oh I see your point- that the comet had been set in motion many years before.

Okay, if we believe in miracles, (which I do) He could have diverted the comet had they repented at Noah’s proclamation of righteousness.

I believe we usually choose the harvest we reap.


26 posted on 11/21/2007 2:45:45 PM PST by ovrtaxt (You're a destiny that God wrapped a body around.)
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To: fish hawk

Who’s guessing?


27 posted on 11/21/2007 2:45:57 PM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: Wally_Kalbacken

lol I prefer a very small charge at the Chevron station thank you very much...


28 posted on 11/21/2007 2:46:42 PM PST by ovrtaxt (You're a destiny that God wrapped a body around.)
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To: blam; Apercu; P8riot; RegulatorCountry; Madam Theophilus; stephenjohnbanker; M. Espinola
The Truth About Planetary Changes -- Past, Present and Future

Hold onto you hats . . . It's happening again. Beginning in 2008. Click here if you desire to learn more . . . Scroll down. Look for 'something wicked comes this way.' We are all in God's hands. Even though most do not want to admit that the scientific evidence is real. Just like Algore wanting to make a killing on global warming scams.

Happy Thanksgiving Everybody ! . . . Gobble, Gobble.

29 posted on 11/21/2007 2:47:29 PM PST by ex-Texan (Matthew 7: 1 - 6)
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To: RegulatorCountry
Your map shows a discomfiting concentration of large impact sites in North America, east of the Mississippi, moreso than any other place on Earth.

The old earth folks would say that that is because the surface of the east is geologically older than the west - i.e., the Appalachian are older than the Rockies, with the Canadian shield even older. In Europe, the Alps would be younger, with the Jura older, so you'd be more likely to find impact sites the further you moved north.

30 posted on 11/21/2007 2:51:47 PM PST by PAR35
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To: blam

Son of Velikovsky.


31 posted on 11/21/2007 2:53:47 PM PST by matthew fuller (Crop-circles, killer rabbits and UFO'S are caused by GLOBAL WARMING!)
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To: P8riot

You did better on post 25.


32 posted on 11/21/2007 2:54:07 PM PST by fish hawk (The religion of Darwinism = Monkey Intellect)
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To: ex-Texan

A new blog topic? I guess the real estate bubble really has officially gone bust, lol.


33 posted on 11/21/2007 2:54:45 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: blam

bookmark for later.


34 posted on 11/21/2007 2:55:26 PM PST by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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To: blam
I don’t believe the evidence of a crater off Madagascar, and the impetus is on Abbott to prove it,” says Jay Melosh, an impact expert at the University of Arizona and an outspoken critic of the theory.

Of course no one should believe an explanation until there is very clear evidence to support it, and even then, the explanation is subject to constant revision as the quality and quantity of information improves.

But where do self-appointed policemen like this jerk Jay Melosh come from? Someone else has put forward an hypothesis that is as yet unproven. So, somehow this Jay Melosh is supposed to be famous because he "debunked" it, but asking the obvious, "where is your evidence"

I have a suggestion for Dr. Melosh. It is an interesting and creative hypothesis. Instead of sitting on his vestigial tail carping at the ideas of others why doesn't he find something useful to do, like see if there is evidence for or against it, or go and find his own problem to work on.

The hypothesis will likely turn out to be wrong, likely on the grounds that most scientific hypotheses turn out to be wrong. But, in the process of collecting evidence you learn a lot of facts and might in addition to finding that this was wrong, find something else that was right, none of which will happen if you sit on your tenured chair and preen your tenured tail feathers.

Of course it is unproven, but I think rather less than more of this Dr Melosh for pointing out the obvious.

35 posted on 11/21/2007 2:57:07 PM PST by AndyJackson
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To: al baby; Auntbee; BJClinton; Dashing Dasher; dfwddr; exile; feinswinesuksass; Finger Monkey; ...
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket TaЯd ping!

"Tard" refers to the ping list members and not to the subject of the thread.

List of Ping Lists

36 posted on 11/21/2007 2:57:11 PM PST by EveningStar
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To: ex-Texan

wow, that’s a great video- haunting.


37 posted on 11/21/2007 3:00:07 PM PST by ovrtaxt (You're a destiny that God wrapped a body around.)
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To: Madam Theophilus
"Immanuel Velikovsky already had this idea in the 1950’s"

Carl Sagan, the great wise sage and predictor of Global Cooling, didn't believe in Velikovsky.

38 posted on 11/21/2007 3:02:54 PM PST by matthew fuller (Crop-circles, killer rabbits and UFO'S are caused by GLOBAL WARMING!)
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To: ovrtaxt

“Just a minor point, the Bible says the water didn’t subside for 150 days.”

I wouldn’t consider this being a minor point. What it shows me if they can’t read what is clear how can one accept what they’re saying on something that is not clear?


39 posted on 11/21/2007 3:08:11 PM PST by jwh_Denver (Eat at Joe's, lose it on a bungee jump.)
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To: blam

Interesting take on whether or not a comet could have caused the flood.

http://www.genesisfiles.com/Flood.htm


40 posted on 11/21/2007 3:08:39 PM PST by chessplayer
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To: jwh_Denver

That comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. But to the hordes of natural-thinkers that are sure to descend on this thread, I’m sure they won’t find it all that important.


41 posted on 11/21/2007 3:12:49 PM PST by ovrtaxt (You're a destiny that God wrapped a body around.)
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To: jwh_Denver

Not to mention, what are they going to do with the condition that it never rained before this event? That’s another clue, often ignored, as to what really happened.


42 posted on 11/21/2007 3:15:07 PM PST by ovrtaxt (You're a destiny that God wrapped a body around.)
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To: P8riot

well the way I understand it, we have free will to make choices but G-d knows our choices in advance because He is above time. But that doesn’t mean He controls our choices just as someone with a time machine who went back in time a few minutes can’t change what I just said (he could put a gun to my head but I could choose to be a martyr and type it anyway if I was that passionate about my FR posts...)


43 posted on 11/21/2007 3:17:26 PM PST by ari-freedom (Scientific consensus is formed by the public schools and government grants.)
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Ancient Crash, Epic Wave
NY Times | November 14, 2006 | SANDRA BLAKESLEE
Posted on 11/14/2006 7:07:33 AM EST by Pharmboy
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1738251/posts

Did an Asteroid Impact Cause an Ancient Tsunami?
NYT | Nov 14 2006 | SANDRA BLAKESLEE
Posted on 11/15/2006 11:00:40 PM EST by djf
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1739396/posts


44 posted on 11/21/2007 3:18:19 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Sunday, November 18, 2007"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: 75thOVI; AFPhys; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; BenLurkin; Berosus; ...
see above for the two earlier topics about this (from a year ago):
 
Catastrophism
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic ·

45 posted on 11/21/2007 3:19:04 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Sunday, November 18, 2007"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks Blam.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo ·
· History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


46 posted on 11/21/2007 3:19:38 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Sunday, November 18, 2007"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam

Jewish astronomer Rabbi bar Nachmani - “When God decided to bring about the Flood, He took two stars from Khima, threw them on Earth, and brought about the Flood.”


47 posted on 11/21/2007 3:30:56 PM PST by chessplayer
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To: blam
Scripture (Gen. 7:11-12) indicates that the flood was iniated by something coming from within the earth, not something coming from the sky:

"... on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened. And rain fell upon the earth forty days and forty nights."

48 posted on 11/21/2007 3:31:16 PM PST by Theo (Global warming "scientists." Pro-evolution "scientists." They're both wrong.)
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To: shibumi

You’ll love post #15.


49 posted on 11/21/2007 3:31:27 PM PST by Salamander (And don't forget my Dog; fixed and consequent.......)
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To: blam
Scripture (Gen. 7:11-12) indicates that the flood was iniated by something coming from within the earth, not something coming from the sky:

"... on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened. And rain fell upon the earth forty days and forty nights."

50 posted on 11/21/2007 3:32:08 PM PST by Theo (Global warming "scientists." Pro-evolution "scientists." They're both wrong.)
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