Posted on 11/30/2007 8:15:25 PM PST by RedRover
WASHINGTON -- A Marine company involved in the shooting of civilians in Afghanistan last March responded appropriately to an ambush against them, and should not have been pulled out of the country, the commander of Marine Corps special forces said Thursday.
Marine Maj. Gen. Dennis J. Hejlik, head of Marine Corps Special Operations Command, also told reporters that a legal tribunal investigating the incident has been postponed until mid-January at the request of one of the officers involved.
"Obviously it was not my decision to bring the company out of theater," Hejlik said. "It was the theater commander's decision. I will never second guess the commander on the ground. I will say, I did not agree with it. To this day, I do not agree with it."
Eight members of the Marine Corps company involved in the March 4 shooting -- which left as many as 19 civilians dead and 50 injured -- were ordered back to Camp Lejune after the incident, and the rest of the company was told to leave Afghanistan and return to ships in the Persian Gulf.
Hejlik, however, stopped short of clearing the Marines of any blame in the incident, saying he could not speak to what may have happened after the initial ambush, when the unit was returning to their base.
A preliminary military investigation found that the Marines used excessive force and referred it for possible criminal inquiry. And Afghanistan's Independent Human Rights Commission said in a report that the troops fired indiscriminately at pedestrians and people in cars, buses and taxis in six different locations along a 10-mile stretch of road in Nangahar province after an explosives-rigged minivan crashed into their convoy.
In other comments, Hejlik said the creation of the new Marine Special Operations Command is moving along well. So far, he said, there are about 1,700 Marines in the special forces command, and he will reach the goal of 2,600 by late 2008.
The Marines formally entered the world of military special operations in February 2006, under the direction of then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
Hejlik said he expects the units to continue to work in Afghanistan, and also to concentrate their efforts in the Pentagon's new Africa Command that is being set up now. A key priority, he said, is to work with military from other nations, providing training and additional expertise.
Rumsfeld added Marines to the Pentagon's Special Operations Command because he said the military needed to continue to adapt to the tactics of terror networks such as al-Qaida, who use unconventional warfare to counter American firepower.
Yes, it was. First, we KNOW innocent people were killed, so why not apologize? It is also good tactics, since it diffuses anger. And the Army DID an investigation - but the Marines didn’t like where it was headed.
All the SOF troops, to include the Marines in MARSOC are good at what they do. Some areas overlap but there is a difference in focus. To understand that focus is to use it correctly. Something higher commands are still wrestling with.
I think the debate boils down to semantics. Marines in MARSOC are Marines, period. They are not “Seals”, “Green Berets” or anything but Marines who happened to be trained for special operations. They do not get different uniforms, or wear special patches, berets, or covers.
Even several decades ago (during my time in the Corps - - I’m old!) there were plenty of Marines who worked special operations. There was “Force Recon”, snipers, and even dog handlers (who had the highest bounty on their heads in Vietnam, btw).
Today, the Marines have formed the new command, MARSOC, as its contribution to the US Special Operations Command. There’s about 2,500 Marines (and sailors) in MARSOC. And that’s what you have - - Marines trained for special operations and assigned to MARSOC. But they do not have any special name or designation other than “Marine”.
Again, the debate here appears to be one of semantics.
Semper Fidelis,
LH
Great, another Nifong wannabe. May you reap what you sow.
Hey Red, is this Ping list separate from the Haditha list? If so, could you add me - thanks!
Awesome picture!
I’m watching the Army Navy game and CBS cut to some cheering fans in Kuwait - a good reminder about those serving overseas.
I’m ignoring the claim because I don’t know the source and, in any event, am incapable of judging of what is possible or impossible for insurgents in Afghanistan to do.
At the very least, it seems prudent to wait until the investigation is complete and the evidence is tested before saying these Marines are guilty. Until then, I believe servicemen deserve the benefit of the doubt. I would give you the same presumption of innocence.
The source was the Marines themselves. Shooting went on from the VBIED hit almost to the gate at Jalalabad. People were killed / wounded throughout, and bullets were found the whole distance.
However, it never hurts to wait until the investigation is complete - the Marine one, not just the halted Army one. My main point is that this is one case where it might be best for BOTH sides of the argument to wait...it is definitely not a case of someone trying to build a career by slandering troops. There are solid reasons why the Army became very concerned, and why the Marine unit was pulled.
Great post!
Oh. You're an "ROE" guy, huh? Lemme guess - - you're a lawyer? An Army lawyer? Or a JAG-off, maybe?
Dang, Girlene, you’ve got it covered, as usual!
You are quoting the lawyers for the defense, who have seen pictures. OK, we’ll see...but there was not a 7 mile wide ambush. THAT is what struck so many people there as unbelievable. And the folks I talked to had seen the vehicles, not pictures of them.
Yes, there are IEDs and VBIEDs in the area. I’m familiar with the Apr 29 raid, and I have NO doubt but that there are bad people who frequent the road. The entire road from Jalalabad to Torkham Gate is a potential site of IEDs.
I know Gen Conway did not like Col Nicholson’s comments. I’ve met Col Nicholson, and I’ve spent a lot of time with men who worked closely with him for several years. I have never encountered an officer more widely respected by the men who worked for him. Honesty and integrity are words very frequently used by officer and enlisted alike to describe him. He had full & first-hand access to all the investigation done by the Army. He would not have made the comments he made without good reason for, at the least, serious concern.
No, I’m not a lawyer. I have had experience with Marine Corps officers brazenly lying about mistakes within their command. One one occasion, they did it repeatedly and in spite of the documentation, and a half dozen officers in the squadron were fired...eventually. My oldest daughter joined the Marines with my support, but Marines are not incapable of lying to save their butts.
Well, we are certainly seeing enough of that from the perfumed princes of the Pentagon and the incompetent Secretary of the Navy Winter. It's a sea of political hacks in the officer corps today, and it's hard to know who to trust anymore, and that includes Conway.
As for Nicholson, somebody get me a crying towel. Here are the comments that guy made last May:
"I want to mention one thing. I've noticed in the news recently there's been some coverage of a 4 March incident that occurred here in Nangarhar province in which a Marine special forces unit was attacked by a suicide bomber, and in the ensuing fight a number of civilians were killed. Today we met with the families of those victims; 19 dead and 50 injured. We made official apologies on the part of the U.S. government and the part of the coalition, and we made what is called a solatia payment, which is essentially a symbol of our sympathy to them. It is not a legal claim per se, but it is a way of expressing our genuine condolences and deep regret over the incident occurring.
"And I wanted to share that with you because this is very important. The people are our center of gravity here. So first and foremost in all that we do, we seek to do no harm to the people. So events such as that do set us back with the population and they have to be addressed very directly and forthrightly with the Afghan people.
"And I just wanted to read a part of the statement that I made to the families, so that you have an appreciation for how we interact with the people over here and what this kind of event means. We – and I would comment that the response by the people was very positive. Showing them the appropriate respect is culturally significant, and seeing the genuine remorse that we have for incidents such as this is important in terms of keeping them with us.
"As I commented to them today, ' “We came here to help the Afghan people and the Afghan government, not to hurt you. We deeply appreciate the hospitality you’ve shown us by allowing us to stand beside you and to fight our common enemy together. America has stood by you in the anti-Soviet jihad, and we stand by you today. God has blessed us with success, and Insha’Allah we will continue to see a better life for all Afghans, a life of dignity, honor and opportunity.
' “Most American soldiers here have families of their own. When we see Afghan children smiling and waving, we think of our own children. And this brings a smile to our faces and joy to our hearts.
' “We wish for you and your children, just as for our own children, to have a happy and healthy life. All life is precious. Our soldiers believe this; the American people believe this. When our soldiers see suffering and death, as we do very frequently in this war, we are very sad. When children or other innocent people suffer or die, it breaks our hearts.
' “So I stand before you today, deeply, deeply ashamed and terribly sorry that Americans have killed and wounded innocent Afghan people. We are filled with grief and sadness at the death of any Afghan, but the death and wounding of innocent Afghans at the hand of Americans is a stain on our honor and on the memory of the many Americans who have died defending Afghanistan and the Afghan people. This was a terrible, terrible mistake, and my nation grieves with you for your loss and suffering. We humbly and respectfully ask for your forgiveness,” end-quote.
"I wanted to share that with you to demonstrate how important connections with the people are to us. And I know there’s many stories in the news about civilian deaths, and I wanted you to hear from a commander in the field how we interact with the people when such a thing occurs. And regrettably it does happen, because this is war, but we go to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties.
"And if they do occur, we go to great lengths to try and make it right with the people who’ve suffered because that is not what America stands for. They know that. They hold us to a higher standard, and they should hold us to a higher standard. And we should hold ourselves to a higher standard because we are professionals, and we can be better than that. So we work very hard to do no harm to the Afghan people and to deliver those effects that we know will achieve the buy-in by the Afghans of their own government and will help us to win this war on terror."
Nicholson convicts the Marines, apologizes for their actions, expresses regret over "terrible, terrible mistakes", and then has the gall to add that there is an ongoing investigation. Nicholson is clearly a guy who has no problem throwing Marines under the bus if it makes his job easier and makes him look good. What an assclown.
One marine in the upper left has his back to the camera. Was he watching the units rear or, just a person who doesn't like having his picture taken?
"Receipt of a Purple Heart award requires that a service member's actions following a distinguishing act are honorable," Gilmore said.
Does this mean that if I get caught peeing in a trash can cause one of my legs got blown off in combat and couldn't race to the outhouse in time, I don't get a Purple Heart?
LOL. No, bhfred. But you may receive your Purple Heart, post-humously. You obviously failed your basic medical training. You need a tourniquet first.
Well, I didn’t quite mean that I would be thinking about going to the potty during the firefight, a little later maybe. And I would be happy to accept a P.H. post-humorously (after all the laughter had died down). And a tourniquet is where you whip off your belt and strangle the bastards when you run out of bullets, right?
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