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Four People Shot Outside Colorado Springs New Life Church
Fox News ^
| 09 DEC 07
| Fox News
Posted on 12/09/2007 12:49:26 PM PST by aomagrat
Edited on 12/09/2007 12:59:09 PM PST by Admin Moderator.
[history]
[I waited 45 seconds and actually posted something substantial--Ed.]
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — At least four people were shot outside of a Colorado Springs church on Sunday, but it was not immediately known whether the shootings were related to an earlier shooting about 70 miles away, authorities said.
TOPICS: Breaking News; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: antichristian; assam; banglist; bombs; christian; christianpersecution; church; churchshooting; colorado; coloradosprings; enemedia; goldencompasskiller; hatecrime; hometown; ieds; newlifechurch; persecution; tedhaggard; thegoldencompass; wonderwoman
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To: traumer
Do you deny it?I deny it. Didn't happen. The kid in Omaha apparently wasn't on meds. From the postings on ezboard, it doesn't look like Matthew Murray was taking medicine with any regularity.
The SSRIs don't have a super long half-life, which just means that if you stop taking them, you stop getting the effect of the drug. It's a convenient boogeyman when it's more likely that it's evil at the heart of the matter.
To: LibertyRocks
In another one (the link I just posted above), he claimed to have been on Prozac for 8 months. A lot of sounds like it was just made up for an audience.
Have they shown a picture of him anywhere? Just curious.
2,002
posted on
12/10/2007 10:31:23 PM PST
by
Rte66
To: bahblahbah
Yep, I read that one... I didn’t want to publish it here because some of the accusations sound pretty far-fetched to me... Of course, I don’t know for sure... I would’ve perhaps made it clear that I was quoting a post from somewhere else though...
To: the808bass
Total Posts :: 124
Member Since :: December 4, 2006 (Global User)
My Personal Information
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To: the808bass
Wow... if he wrote that, that does tie everything up, and why does that not surprise me? It seems that all of these deranged school shooters (in this case, church) always seem to be nihilistic, demonically-influenced, angry individuals who listen to Marilyn Manson or other dark music, and are into violent games, etc.
When I first heard about this, I had a feeling that's what it was going to turn out to be. It's frightening, because there is so much of that darkness (music, movies, games, etc) out there that lures young people, and along with drugs and all the other stuff...it leads to destruction. I wish more people wouldn't dismiss those things as inconsequential.
To: Rte66
I haven’t seen a photo anywhere.
I thought it sort of sounded like he had given up on help though (and probably stopped taking his meds at the point he was posting)... Regardless, if he was still on the meds it doesn’t sound like he was on the right one for his particular chemistry/problem, or he wasn’t taking it correctly... I don’t want to speculate further on that topic though — I don’t want to accuse his doctors, etc.. Sometimes patients are not always truthful as well...
That stuff was in the thread with his poetry wasn’t it? (I saved them all, but haven’t opened up the file and read through it again).
To: the808bass
Here's some of his poetry. I was trying to get as much cached stuff before it disappeared.
Drowning in despair
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you raped the soul from the child in me........
Crying all alone
The tears flowing down my face in a beautiful stream
The lovely misery and lonely darkness surrounding me
As I see everyone going on with their meaningless vain fake lives
All the posers and wannabes
All the abusers
Crying all alone
Cutting myself
High off the pain and darkness
Seeing so many fakers hating me
So many of my friends who have abandoned me
So many spiritual pretenders who failed to help me.
I’m your nightmares come true
You think you can punish me but you fail to see
That I’ve lived through a thousand nightmares
And all your worst Christian fears are coming true
Walking down these hallways
Of mirrors and sadness seeing myself
Crying all alone as everyone takes their turn
Raping all that I am
Cutting myself killing this pain
Someone help me please
I can’t get out and I am slowly dying
Come and sing with me
This beautiful song of sadness and misery
Cutting ourselves
Crying awash in crimson
Come and sing this song…
As we die and leave this miserable life behind
Can you not see the elegant beauty?
Rays of light like gold silk flowing throughout this place
Beautiful tears of crimson streaming down our bodies
Our work is done here, we’re going home
Let us fly away into the dying sunset
Can you not hear this beautiful song?
As all the pain fades away
Taking your last breath
As the blood and pain drains
Leaving everyone........left
To die in their misery and hypocrisy
We’re going home to a beautiful place far away from here
________________________________________________
It's all in your head......it's all in my head.....
I tried...you lied to me for so long.....
Everywhere I go there's a sense of it.......
freak on my antics and give me a choice
Doesn't matter if I give a @#%$..... it's @#%$ that you gave me
Edited by: nghtmrchld26 at: 11/11/07 11:04 pm
In my vast (and it is vast) experience with ex-Pentecostals, they tend to exaggerate their wounds. Thus he compares the hypocrisy of his church acquaintances to being raped. There is no actual intimation of sexual abuse in any of his posts. Just crude analogies which seem to point in my limited judgment to narcissism rather than actual wrongs.
To: LibertyRocks
There was another post where he downs YWAM and Ted Haggard in one paragraph as the example of all that is wrong with Christianity which is the biggest problem in the world. Apparently, Haggard was his mom’s favorite minister.
To: LibertyRocks
Yes, his poetry is really sad and depressing. Here's one titled "Drowning in Despair" that he posted on 8/5/07 and later came back to edit on 11/11:
nghtmrchld26
Friend
Posts: 38
(8/5/07 6:26 pm)
Reply
Drowning in despair you raped the soul from the child in me........
Crying all alone
The tears flowing down my face in a beautiful stream
The lovely misery and lonely darkness surrounding me
As I see everyone going on with their meaningless vain fake lives
All the posers and wannabes
All the abusers
Crying all alone
Cutting myself
High off the pain and darkness
Seeing so many fakers hating me
So many of my friends who have abandoned me
So many spiritual pretenders who failed to help me.
I.m your nightmares come true
You think you can punish me but you fail to see
That I.ve lived through a thousand nightmares
And all your worst Christian fears are coming true
Walking down these hallways
Of mirrors and sadness seeing myself
Crying all alone as everyone takes their turn
Raping all that I am
Cutting myself killing this pain
Someone help me please
I can.t get out and I am slowly dying
Come and sing with me
This beautiful song of sadness and misery
Cutting ourselves
Crying awash in crimson
Come and sing this song.
As we die and leave this miserable life behind
Can you not see the elegant beauty?
Rays of light like gold silk flowing throughout this place
Beautiful tears of crimson streaming down our bodies
Our work is done here, we.re going home
Let us fly away into the dying sunset
Can you not hear this beautiful song?
As all the pain fades away
Taking your last breath
As the blood and pain drains
Leaving everyone........left
To die in their misery and hypocrisy
We.re going home to a beautiful place far away from here
________________________________________________
It's all in your head......it's all in my head.....
I tried...you lied to me for so long.....
Everywhere I go there's a sense of it.......
freak on my antics and give me a choice
Doesn't matter if I give a @#%$..... it's @#%$ that you gave me
Edited by: nghtmrchld26 at: 11/11/07 11:04 pm
nghtmrchld26
Below this, a forum poster sympathizes with him, and he responds with another 20 lines of the same tone as above.
That's followed by more sympathy from other members, followed by him explaining a lot about himself. I'll append that below.
This guy is definitely a suicidal, hate-filled young man, and that's a combination that is dangerous to society. Because they are not content to just take themselves out when they go. They want to take as many along with them as they can in a final blaze of glory, to revel in their hatred and revel in getting blood on their hands. I'm guessing that at some point, too much time spent fantasizing doing violence to real people can lead from fantasy to reality. Seventy years ago, these kinds of people would have had other outlets, such as signing up to be SS death camp guards.
Sorry if I don't sound too sympathetic. I keep pingponging back and forth between sympathy and anger with this Matthew Murray, who went from angry poet to mass murderer one day, and got his big wish to go out in a bloodsoaked blaze of glory.
nghtmrchld26
Friend
Posts: 67
(10/1/07 1:08 pm)
Reply
Re: Drowning in despair But why care about a world that doesn't care about me anyways? And why go on living in a world that doesn't want me?
Caring never felt so lame inside. There's just no answers.
Everyone has the same unoriginal s*** to say:
"Have you seen a therapist?" "Have you tried medications?"
"Have you tried thinking positive happy thoughts about the world?" "Maybe you should try counseling?" "Maybe you should try to just not be this way" "Just try taking one day at a time work towards your degree in college" "Don't worry, it will all get better"
Guess what? Believe it or not.....I'VE TRIED ALL THAT
People then usually assume that I only tried prozac(or some other drug) for two days and got upset that it didn't "work" and they say "oh well, you need to give it more than a couple of days to work"....I don't know how 8 months is only a few days...but maybe you f***ers who can only come up with lame ass answers need a good ass kicking
These lamers will also say "well maybe try a different therapist?" or "just.......keep trying"
Yeah....that's right, this nightmare terrifies you crack addicts, other people claiming to be depressed, all you people who think you're so depressed over some stupid divorce......you people tell me yourself you're terrified of this kind of depression and of this nightmare. No one has any answers. I've talked to lots of people about this, and they first say "oh well....you couldn't possibly know about REAL depression.....I've been through alcohol and drug addiction, and recently a divorce, my parents kicked me out at age 15, I can't go to college because I don't have money and I have kids to support........etc.....etc......." and then they always say "but I know it's always going to get better and that I have a lot to live for"
Well @#%$.....you're in much better shape and have a lot more hope than I have...... and then I'll tell them "I'm not sure if this is REAL depression....but here's what I'm dealing with and how I'm feeling......"
The response so far is always the same. The person who claimed to have it so much worse than me, is suddenly shaken, and *tranced* out and given a glimpse of The Nightmare that me and my friends have grown up in. This person who first said "oh no honey, not to discount what you're going through but I'm dealing with some dark depressing things a young person like you doesn't understand" is now telling me in a quivering voice...."uh.....that's......pretty dark writing.....and creative too...uh.....have you thought of counsling?" I said "well yeah, didn't really change anything" "well I don't really want to hear about depressing things and..." "But I thought you said you were really depressed?" "yeah...but...honey...I don't know what to tell you about....lets just change the subject"
Sorry but this isn't some pity story of where someone got touched in the wrong place once or twice or where some girl got raped only twice....this is The Nightmare that just goes on and on and me some of my church friends just cannot even fully remember what all happened, much less understand why......
This is also the downward spiral here....no one has any real answers, only lame answers and fear of what me and my friends grew up in, and fear of the depressing aftermath.
On the positive side, that fact that we've survived this long means we're a LOT stronger than most people, especially these lamers who are terrified of my poetry. We're stronger than these pentecostal Youth With A Mission assholes who said "you can't be writing down your feelings, especially not about depression." We've proven that we're a lot stronger than these sick bastards in the charismatic and pentecostal movement.
Welcome to the Nightmare
____________________________________________
You can't kill me because I'm already inside you
To: the808bass
Here he compares his suffering to sexual abuse again.
I know about the many sleepless nights and being unable to get anyone who will even just listen to me. I've tried telling christians from other denominations and they just look at me with this stare not having any clue the kind of darkness and despair I've had to go through. I've tried to find companionship with sexual abuse survivors only to have them be freaked out about the insane testimony of what I've been through. I've already talked with many hard-core fundamentalist christian apologists and pastors and they're all out of answers for me. The best they can come up with is "uh...well....I guess all you can do is trust God and hope you've followed the right version of christianity...."
Again, no real description of what went wrong. Just that it was the worst thing that has ever happened to anyone.
To: the808bass; All
Yep, I’ve got a lot of it saved... It’s very sad to read. He was obviously hurting very badly. I really wish he would’ve availed himself of the help that people were offering to him instead of thinking they were all hypocrites (as he suggests in some of the other posts).
I’m probably going to log off for the night now... Going to spend some time praying before I hit the sack...
To: the808bass
More cries of hypocrisy, people who say R-rated movies are bad but watch them. Now, no church is perfect, but there seems some exaggerated sense of self-importance and judgment here. Could be just me.
Well, I got all fed up with the insanity, hypocrisy, conflicting doctrines, the and lack of absolute answers in regards to “salvation,” heaven and hell and other theological issues, the child abuse, brainwashing, lies, gossip, scandals, threats and fear mongering. I got tired of always hearing “oooohh, you’re saved by grace, not by works!” “Everybody loves you! Jesus loves you!” only to hear about how I was going to hell for watching “The simpsons” or could lose my salvation and could never be certain if 30 years from now I might lose it due to some odd sin and die in an accident and end up in this eternal hell preached to us day and night.
To: LibertyRocks; nicmarlo; CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC
If indeed the media has reported his screen names correctly, here's what I found so far...
HOPE THIS POST WORKS, IF NOT, I'LL ASK MODS TO REMOVE IT.
http://p223.ezboard.com/Insane-things-we-went-through-in-christian-homeschool/fexpentecostalforumsfrm7.showMessage?topicID=2022.topic
nghtmrchld26 exPc Fan Posts: 108 (12/1/07 4:01 pm) Reply
Insane things we went through in christian homeschool
Me and this caller, "Devin on DMLive" were raised in homeschool and we both went through some insane stuff growing up in The Nightmare that outsiders just do not understand.
"Devin's" call begins at about 5:34 in the mp3 file from 2007-11-18 9 PM Central on dmlive.com/listenindex.html. It’s the second call in the 9 PM hour from 11-18-2007. Dawson Mcallister told Devin… “This is horrifying....”
Me, I remember the beatings and the fighting and yelling and insane rules and all the Bill Gothard bull**** and then trancing out...sh**......I'm still tranced out. I remember how it was like every day was Mission Impossible trying to keep the rules or not get caught and just....survive every single f***ing day. My mother's a f***ing psycho too, her and her whole church and christian family.
Of course people will say the usual fake answers "just stop being this way and be happy from now on..." "we don't have the time and the energy to give a s*** about you..." "you're not the only one who has it bad" "I had it a lot worse than you and I'm happy and doing great" "you're not popular you know...no one likes you very much"
I'll take Dawson's advice to Devin:
"it's almost like you've come back from a war and are having flashbacks" "ONE MORE, just ONE MORE bit of psychological abuse from your mother and you WALK, you are OUT THAT DOOR saying 'I won't live like this anymore EVER'."
I'm not getting any younger and it's time for the abuse to stop. Just because I'm not one of the "Beautiful People," just because other people don't understand or because I'm not "popular" does not mean I need to take any more s*** from anyone.
Listen to what Devin describes in his call...maybe it might help people who don't understand to.......feel what I feel
Cherish your life
FORUM SEARCH http://p223.ezboard.com/fexpentecostalforumsfrm7.doForumSearch
Re: Pentecostal Mythology
2,013
posted on
12/10/2007 10:54:06 PM PST
by
Freedom2specul8
(Please pray for our troops.... http://anyservicemember.navy.mil/)
And in the interest of self-congratulations, I will say "I called it."
From my perspective, this appears to be an "inside job." This isn't the actions of an indiscrimate hater. He chose the YWAM facility and then chose New Life church. They are connected (at least tangentially). If he wanted to kill Christians in general, there would seem to be other ways to accomplish that. I will bet that he's received some imaginary or real insult from YWAM and/or staffers from the church and acted on it.
1,434 posted on 12/10/2007 8:42:51 AM CST by the808bass [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1431 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]
To: LibertyRocks; nicmarlo; CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC
http://p223.ezboard.com/fexpentecostalforumsfrm7.showMessage?topicID=1725.topic&index=10
I HOPE THIS ISN’T A DUPLICATE
nghtmrchld26
Friend
Posts: 25
(5/8/07 5:34 pm)
Reply
Re: My YWAM Horror Story
I did my DTS at YWAM Denver and Dale Lambert was my DTS school leader. I witnessed all kinds of insanity. Men would be making out with other men in the hallways, listening to all kinds of “metal music”(non-christian), smoke pot with each other while off base, there were rumors of sexual activity, both hetero and homosexual.
Not that any of those things are bad...but.......
Why was I told that I couldn’t be a missionary because I wasn’t “social enough”? I was told that I was “an introvert.”
Everyone else got to go on their outreaches except for a few who lied about smoking(cigarettes).
The authoritarianism and hypocrisy is outrageous. The YWAM leaders would always believe that they had some special “connection to God” to be able to dictate and rule over student’s lives. I’m not talking about simple rules like “no drugs allowed” but rather “we prayed and we feel like the spirit says that you’re not loyal enough” or “we prayed and we feel like God says you’re not to go on any outreaches.” For just asking the question “why are we having a special group meeting tonight?” I was told “we prayed and we feel that you have a spirit of rebellion and if you ask or question anything any further we may have to send you home...” I was told that I could not watch an “R” movie at a movie theater even though several of the other students did...and yes, the leaders knew full well about it.
The lack of knowledge and thinking is another story. Almost none of those people ever questioned the things they were taught. They always assume it’s true and in matters of contradictory teachers and teachings, they’d just believe and follow whatever everyone’s emotions were feeling. I remember “holy spirit week” where they tried to get everyone “baptised in the holy spirit.” I went along with it just to stop people harassing me and asking me “are you still speaking in tongues? you better not stop doing that or you might lose the holy spirit.....” I now know that the Divine Spirit is within all of us no matter what our religion is. Very few actually had answers in regards to salvation or “hearing the voice of God.” A lot of the “prophesy” in those groups was/is nothing more than lower psychism. Sure, they can be accurate once in a while, but even then it’s on a lower level. Just because someone is psychically/spiritually sensitive doesn’t mean they know how to exercise it or have a trained mind. It also does not mean that they understand spiritual principles. It only means that they are sensitive to the lower astral levels.
1 person did get sent home for making an amateur sex video of homosexual nature....6 or 7 people were involved but only that one person got sent home. I know 3 or 4 others were sent home simply for smoking a legal nicotine cigarette. A few people got “talks”(slaps on the wrist) about their openly homosexual behaviour in front of everyone. They all went on outreach. For the record, when I was told by the YWAM staff 1 week before I was to leave on outreach that they did not want me on outreach, I asked them if I had done anything wrong. I ask them to clarify their reasons and they did make it clear to me that I had not commited any “sin” or done anything wrong...except for the one time I questioned, but that that was not the reason they were sending me home. They made it clear that they were sending me home because they “prayed to God” and felt that I was “not social enough” and was “an introvert.” After having left I of course found out how true all those words about “we all love and care about you very much” and “we do care about you.” really were.......
I never heard back from them and when I got home....well.....back to the usual christian insanity at home and my parent’s church.
The fact is, in YWAM, and christianity, it’s all about the Beautiful People. No, it’s not just “one group of bad christians” but rather....almost every group of christians except for a few open minded non-evangelical churches. If you’re an extrovert, and popular, then yes, there is plenty of love waiting for you in christianity. If you ask questions and want to understand things and/or desire a real and deep spirituality, or if you’re just not popular...well.......you are considered as one of the horrible people and are either going to be abused or kicked out by “holy spirit love filled” christians. it’s all about......
the Beautiful People........
If any YWAMer believes that I’m on the wrong path and that they have “The Spiritual Truth” and answers then feel free to send me a message, I’d love to discuss these things with you and discover “truth”(If I indeed have not found it yet).
____________________________________________________
Mister Crowley......
Edited by: nghtmrchld26 at: 5/8/07 5:46 pm
2,015
posted on
12/10/2007 10:57:03 PM PST
by
Freedom2specul8
(Please pray for our troops.... http://anyservicemember.navy.mil/)
To: the808bass
Since you’ve been online a while, can you check the links Iposted..and give me an idea as to how many are already posted?
2,016
posted on
12/10/2007 10:58:17 PM PST
by
Freedom2specul8
(Please pray for our troops.... http://anyservicemember.navy.mil/)
HIS ADVICE TO THOSE WHO WANT TO CALL SUICIDE HOTLINES?? wow
nghtmrchld26
exPc Fan
Posts: 104
(11/30/07 8:11 pm)
Reply
Re: Considering Suicide?
Nice post. I’m sure a lot of people have already heard similar things and warnings.
A word of advice if you do call and want to talk to someone......remember some things:
1. You do not have a plan. You do not actually intend to kill yourself. Admit to no more than suicidal thoughts.
2. You do not have the means to kill yourself available
3. You have never attempted suicide before. Nobody in your family has either.
4. You don’t have any recent life stressors
5. You don’t use alcohol/drugs
6. You are under the treatment of a mental health professional who you are seeing weekly.
Remember that they are able to get pass Caller ID blocking and WILL call local mental health authorities.
2,017
posted on
12/10/2007 10:59:58 PM PST
by
Freedom2specul8
(Please pray for our troops.... http://anyservicemember.navy.mil/)
To: Rte66
Thank you for compiling all of those links. It’s very helpful..
2,018
posted on
12/10/2007 11:01:27 PM PST
by
Freedom2specul8
(Please pray for our troops.... http://anyservicemember.navy.mil/)
To: LibertyRocks
“””I really wish he would’ve availed himself of the help that people were offering to him instead of thinking they were all hypocrites (as he suggests in some of the other posts).”””
That’s a key point. He mentions in his writings that many people “reached out” to him in these churches. Even those people on that message board tried to get him to seek help. He wouldn’t go. He seems like someone who would only be happy if everything went his way and would always bite the hand that fed him. Everyone, including his parents, probably gave up on him and he became isolated. He probably did nothing but sit on is puter all day and wallowing in his own self pity over past social wrongs.
To: LibertyRocks
G-d bless this woman for not only listening to His voice leading her to volunteer for this position, but that she remembered that the L-rd is always by our sides — especially in times of need such as this. I pray her comments get wide play in the press...<<<
I agree with you.
One might think that the Lady is one of God’s Angels, doing her job.
I am amazed at the callers to the talk shows, I actually heard a man explain how she was in the wrong, that “she should have shot him in the arm or leg”.
I personally hope that she hit all the arms and legs, with a good head shot and gut shot to make sure he was dead.
Of course under questioning, the man admitted that he had not and would not ever fire a gun, even on a practice range.
But the topper, is the man who goes to church with 2 rocks, each weigh 1/4 pound, that he will throw at the shooter, should he ever be caught up in a terror attack.
This world is full of nuts, some fully cracked and the others are only half cracked.
2,020
posted on
12/10/2007 11:05:57 PM PST
by
nw_arizona_granny
(I vote to outlaw hidden links in articles. If the URL is worthy of clicking, then show it.)
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