Colorado Church Gunman `Hated Christians'

Houston Chronicle ^ | 12-10-07 | Judith Kohler

[tcrlaf]

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — The deadly shooting sprees at a megachurch and a missionary training school were believed to have been carried out by the same person — a 24-year-old suburban Denver man who "hated Christians," a law enforcement official told The Associated Press.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation, identified the gunman as Matthew Murray, the son of a neurologist who is a prominent researcher on multiple sclerosis.

Five people — including a gunman — were killed, and five others wounded Sunday in the two eruptions of violence 12 hours and 65 miles apart.

The first attack took place at a youth missionary training center in the Denver suburb of Arvata; the other happened at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, where the gunman was shot and killed by a security guard.

The law enforcement official said Murray was believed to be the gunman in both attacks. Murray did not appear to have a criminal history but "hated Christians," the official said. The official did not know Murray's religion, if any.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE.

[incindiary]

Thank you, I appreciate that. Btw, I made another short video, that has some images from my time with YWAM, both in Kona and on a missions trip to Malaysia and Indonesia. YWAM was awesome, in my experience, and I met some of the best people, with a heart for God and for people, through that organization. Here's that video.

[Jo Nuvark]

[... better wait for some more reliable information...]

Agree. However, the name MURRAY is provocative.
Can you blame me for wondering?

[familyop]

"Or he could just be nuts. It’s a handy excuse."

...agreed. I had a quick look at reporting differences between regions of the USA. Newspapers in the southeast that I checked are only reporting the murderer's last name and that he "hated Christians" (but not his family's Christian background or his missionary past). Papers elsewhere (northwest and the like) are reporting his prior missionary training and membership.

[Ghost of Philip Marlowe]

It could also have been a Freeper, based on some of the anti-theist threads that come up now and then.

[familyop]

"The law enforcement official said Murray was believed to be the gunman in both attacks. Murray did not appear to have a criminal history but 'hated Christians,' the official said. The official did not know Murray's religion, if any."

That's the kind of report I'm seeing in states like Tennessee, Texas, Mississippi, Kentucky, and the like: only his last name and the "hated Christians" comment.

In the northwest, his family's Christian heritage and his prior missionary work are being reported.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Of course this isn't a "hate crime" since it was committed against the "antithesis" (Hegel) of history. The whole purpose of "hate crimes" laws is to protect the "thesis" from the "antithesis."

It's still fascinating that Hispanic Catholics and Black Protestants don't suffer from liberals for their religious beliefs or express any solidarity with "co-religionists" under liberal attack.

[familyop]

"Agree. However, the name MURRAY is provocative.
Can you blame me for wondering?"

There's some selective reporting going on in some areas. See comment #163 and comment #165.

[Gator113]

That was very nice too.

What a wonderful way to give of your heart, and leave your footprint upon the world.

Thanks for sharing those.

Oh to be young again.

[familyop]

Here’s one that only mentions the last name and the phrase in Kentucky.

http://www.wbko.com/news/headlines/12333551.html

Here’s one in Colorado that reported information about his religious background.

http://kjct8.com/Global/story.asp?S=7477751

I peeked at quite a few more papers and differences between the regions.

[Eva]

You are confusing the movers and shakers of the far left with the run of the mill leftist on the street. Sure the big leftists, like Medea Benjamin, have far reaching goals, beyond their local issues, but the guy on the street type of liberal is much more locally oriented. These people are not deep thinkers, for them, all politics are still very much local and don’t go far beyond their own realm of experience. They oppose the Iraq war because they think that it distracts and detracts from their own needs and desires, they hate George Bush because they think that he stole the 2000 election from their boy, Al Gore. They hate the fundamentalist Christians because they think that their judgmental religious philosophy is morally restrictive to their preferred lifestyle, and just plain out of touch with the times. Being “cool” and “in” is almost everything to left, both young and old.

[DarthVader]

You nailed it right on the head. Jesus warned “Beware ye the leaven of the Scribes and Pharisees which is hypocrisy.”

These churches are apostate cults led by false prophets who are headed straight to hell.

[the808bass]

Seems like a gratuitous shot against home schoolers.

While I will grant you that is probably the case in the MSM, if they had not published this detail, we would have several dozen people here on FR saying how it was the fault of the public schools and their indoctrination and this is another reason to homeschool.

[the808bass]

On a serious note, I think we have an upper middle class youth, searching for a life path or career path that when he had conflict didn’t have structure, internal or external, to deal with it and built up a destruction script that he played out for self aggrandizement.

Hold all calls. We have a winner. Well said.

[the808bass]

The church has armed security...why?

You did notice that someone shot up their church, yeah? No?

Unfrigginbelievable. Unfrigginbelievable.

[the808bass]

Does anyone know why he was kicked out of the church?

He wasn't kicked out of the church. Apparently, either his parents or YWAM (the missions organization) did not allow him to complete an intensive 12-week missions training program. Nothing whatsoever to do with being allowed in a church.

[the808bass]

Excuse me?

Iggie's a convert to Judaism. So sometimes he has thin skin when it's not warranted. Sometimes not.

[ricks_place]

...saying how it was the fault of the public schools... Conspiracy theorist are everywhere. - lol

[incindiary]

That was very nice too. What a wonderful way to give of your heart, and leave your footprint upon the world. Thanks for sharing those. Oh to be young again.

Thank you again for the kind and encouraging words! btw, I'm not that young, but Youth with a Mission has people of all ages. We had a woman in our 'crossroads' discipleship training class that was about 70! Anyone who wants to serve God can join. But it is a young at heart organization.

[Phsstpok]

Having grown up in Scarsdale, NY, the town with the highest percentage of Jewish residents outside of Israel (at the time and level of talent of the statisticians involved), I’m very familiar with Yarlmukes.  Believe me! Those I’ve heard of referred to as “skullcaps” throughout my life, mostly by my Jewish friends.  Having several Sikh co-workers and friends I’m familiar (though not in depth) with the practices of that faith and the various traditions, including for example the traditional requirement to carry a ceremonial dagger, often hidden in the Sikh’s turban (last I heard courts have upheld this tradition as a religious freedom right, BTW). 

My mention turbans and Muslims was purely referring to the cliche's related to "towel head" and similar epithets.  I understand the difference and have personally been involved in multiple episodes defending Sikh's from anti-Muslim prejudice (no violence, thank God, once we explained the situation).

I also happen to know Mahatma Ghandi's grandson, who set up the Ghandi Center here in Memphis.  Through associations that have come from that I've been exposed to a very mixed bag of ethnic and religious traditions.

Being married to a Baha’i I’ve also been on the periphery of Islam and very conscious of it’s traditions and habits (including the tradition of “kill a Baha’i, go to heaven”) for more than 30 years, beyond what I’ve learned separately. I don't remember ever hearing anyone refer to the knit caps that many Muslims wear as "skullcaps." Doesn’t mean they don’t (even in my presence) or that it's not perfectly correct, but I don't remember ever hearing it in 52 years of rather eclectic and cosmopolitan living.

However, that wasn’t the point of my post. 

Wikipedia, that well know font of "all things irrefutable," does mention the Muslim Kufi under "skullcap" (second after Yarmulke) though they do qualify it's use as being only "by some Muslims," rather than a wide spread practice.  They also talk about the  Catholic "Zuchetti" skullcaps (I knew they wore them, but not the name).  This all means to me that we're hardly at the "it must be" level of "proof" that this guy wearing something that might be described as a "skullcap" means he can only be a member of the ROP.

The reference in the articles I’ve seen were to a man with a beard and a knit cap. My only point was that based on what I know to be true (which is darn little for all of us at this point) about that term the conclusive declaration of "proof" was premature.  I'm not saying it's not so.  I'm asking for better information and sources before I make up my mind.  I want to make sure I don't start sounding like Harry Reid talking out of his... hat... about what he "knows" to be TRUE.

[Royal Wulff]

if this is true, the young man is a Canadian

I gotta say that I don't follow your logic there. Why does being the son of a MS neurologist lead to Canadianism?