Colorado Church Gunman `Hated Christians'

Houston Chronicle ^ | 12-10-07 | Judith Kohler

[Uri’el-2012]

LOL

[ECM]

The remark was intentionally ironic, period. If you want to jump at shadows, be my guest, but my unwavering support for Israel kinda cements the fact that I am anything but an anti-semite.

I do find it telling, however, that it’s OK for the other poster (to whom I originally directed my comment) to imply that a Muslim was behind the act (with not a hint of irony or humor) but he is not being labeled a “bigot” for his response (are you sure you guys don’t belong over at the PC playhouse at DU and DKOS?) Oh, but I forgot: it’s OK to pin anything like this on a Muslim at any time, right? Even when all we have to go on is a vague description of the shooter (which is why I made my comment in the first place as the description *could* just as easily be that of a Hasidic Jew—how this can be inferred as ‘bigoted’ even had I been serious, is beyond me.)

I certainly have no problem if you believe it was in poor tate (that is your right) but clearly neither of you actually understand the concept of irony nor do either of you grasp what a bigot actually is.

In any event, I am done with you “Iggie”—if you are going to be insulted at every perceived slight to Judaism throughout your life you’re going to be miserable forever.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

In any event, I am done with you “Iggie”—if you are going to be insulted at every perceived slight to Judaism throughout your life you’re going to be miserable forever.

No misery here. But if you want to be done with me, that's fine. From what I've read it wouldn't hurt my feelings much.

[Cindy]

Thank you AD for the ping and you’re right.

[Uri’el-2012]

The remark was intentionally ironic, period. If you want to jump at shadows, be my guest, but my unwavering support for Israel kinda cements the fact that I am anything but an anti-semite.

I do find it telling, however, that it’s OK for the other poster (to whom I originally directed my comment) to imply that a Muslim was behind the act (with not a hint of irony or humor) but he is not being labeled a “bigot” for his response (are you sure you guys don’t belong over at the PC playhouse at DU and DKOS?) Oh, but I forgot: it’s OK to pin anything like this on a Muslim at any time, right? Even when all we have to go on is a vague description of the shooter (which is why I made my comment in the first place as the description *could* just as easily be that of a Hasidic Jew—how this can be inferred as ‘bigoted’ even had I been serious, is beyond me.)

I certainly have no problem if you believe it was in poor tate (that is your right) but clearly neither of you actually understand the concept of irony nor do either of you grasp what a bigot actually is.

In any event, I am done with you “Iggie”—if you are going to be insulted at every perceived slight to Judaism throughout your life you’re going to be miserable forever.

222 posted on 12/11/2007 2:46:27 PM MST by ECM

If you think your remark was ironic, then your sense of irony is not shared.

Had you placed a smiley face at the end of the remark, it would have been seen as ironic, perhaps.

What would have been ironic would have been if you had said he was a Quaker or Amish.

Yes; your remark was in poor taste.

The fact that you call II, "iggie" is again in poor taste
and could be taken as another ethnic slur which violates FR policy.

[incindiary]

Thank you so much yorkie, and you're welcome!

(sorry for the late reply, I just got online a few minutes ago)

[RetiredArmy]

He’s dead. Good. So long. Next.

[incindiary]

That was a beautiful video incindiary. Thank you for sharing it with me. Going to ping some FRiends to it. Thank you also for reminding me that God is very much in control and we as Christians need not worry. I remember what my Mom told me when I was a small child - God will put nothing before you that He knows you cannot handle.

Thanks you all for your kind words. : ) I'm glad it was an encouragement...and you're very welcome! And thank you appalachian, for pinging your friends.

Have a good rest of the day and God bless!

[Jo Nuvark]

Got it. He’s Canadian. Thx.

[ECM]

If you think your remark was ironic, then your sense of irony is not shared.

My sense of irony?! Irony is what it is, it's not a construct open to interpretation. It's not a question of what is the meaning of "is"...And let's say for the sake of argument that it is: that still doesn't make me a "bigot" by any stretch of the imagination.

Had you placed a smiley face at the end of the remark, it would have been seen as ironic, perhaps.

I put a ;) in the post for that express reason--do you not see it?

What would have been ironic would have been if you had said he was a Quaker or Amish.

No, that's wrong. There was the school shooting in, iirc, an Amish town last year. There's no irony when it's something that could be expected, is there? Jews don't shoot up anybody (at least not outside of Israel where it's generally justified), afaik, thus my comment was ironic, i.e. the exact opposite of what you'd expect the situation to be--again, you don't understand what irony is. And besideds that, are Quaker and Amish known for wearing 'skullcaps'?

Yes; your remark was in poor taste.

Fair enough, but that certainly doesn't make me a bigot by any stretch of the imagination (which is what this whole brouhaha is about. The fact that you call II, "iggie" is again in poor taste and could be taken as another ethnic slur which violates FR policy.

How is "iggie" an ethnic slur? His name is "Ignorant" and "iggie" is shorthand for it, is it not? Another poster used that very name when pinging me over this (feel free to go back and read the thread) and I picked up on it. And if it was, in any sense, I'm sure he'd already be screaming about it, so spare me.

The fact still remains: there was nothing bigoted about my comment and I have yet to see anyone actually explain to me *how* it is bigoted. Now I will ask you: please explain to me how, in any way, it's a bigoted comment (even if not intended as a joke)? Because you don't like Jews being associated with shooting people?! It's not like Jews are stereotyped as crazed gunmen, is it?

Once more: based on the description provided, a poster asserted that he was likely Muslim. That description, coincidentally, is also accurate for a Hasidic Jew, which is why I poked fun at the original poster for assuming it was a Muslim based on a threadbare description. Do we understand one another now? Does this make sense? Or would you rather continue to be offended at something that isn't the least bit offensive (especially in context.) Further, you ignored the entire comment about the original poster. Why is that? Is he not a "bigot" by your extremely loose definition of the word?

[timm22]

The fact that you call II, "iggie" is again in poor taste and could be taken as another ethnic slur which violates FR policy.

Care to explain that one to me? I honestly don't see the connection.

Do you think it's ever possible to make an innocent, humorous comment which involves Judaism in some way?

[Rte66]

His father is Ronald S. Murray, of the Rocky Mountain MS Center. Here is a copy of what they posted on their website:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937068/posts?page=1624#1609

[Rte66]

[Index to Murray’s postings]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937068/posts?page=2013#2013

[Discussion Posts of Murray’s messages start here]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937068/posts?q=1&;page=1951
[And run through about here]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937068/posts?page=2040#2040

[Rte66]

FR Threads about the shootings:

~~~~~~
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1938031/posts
Police: Church Gunman Killed Himself
Brietbart ^ | 12/11/2007 | JUDITH KOHLER

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1938009/posts
CO gunman killed self
Breitbart.com ^ | Dec 11 02:47 PM US/Eastern | By JUDITH KOHLER

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937926/posts
Reports: Colorado gunman posted anti-Christian writings
CNN ^ | 12/11/2007 | CNN

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937858/posts
Mika on Church Shootings: ‘Inane’ To Think Armed Citizen Can Make a Difference
NewsBusters ^ | Mark Finkelstein

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937821/posts
Former Minneapolis cop says ‘God was with me’ when she shot gunman in Colorado church hallway
St. Paul Pioneer Press ^ | 12/11/07 | ELECTA DRAPER

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937820/posts
THE WOMAN WHO STOPPED THE KILLING (Colorado Gunman)
NY Post ^ | December 10, 2007

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937808/posts
How Many Lives Did The Concealed-Carry Licensee Save?
Captain’s Quarter’s Blog ^ Posted on 12/11/2007

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937802/posts
Pictures of Today’s Heroine, Jeanne Assam
Yahoo News ^ | Dec 10,2007

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937780/posts
Church guard’s courage under fire awes Vietnam vet
Denver Post ^ | 11 December 2007 | Kieran Nicholson

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937719/posts
What Will You Do If They Shot Up Your Church? (Pray And Pack A Gun Alert)
Worldnetdaily.com ^ | 12/11/2007 | Joseph Farah

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937703/posts
A Hero Among Us
10 December, 2007 | joanie-f

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937680/posts
Colorado gunman scared co-workers 5 years ago, one says
CNN ^ | 10DEC07 | CNN

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937637/posts [Locked - dup]
Security Guard: ‘God Guided Me And Protected Me’
local news TV7 ^ | Dec 10, 2007 | Unknown

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937633/posts
Guard’s hands “didn’t even shake” as she shot gunman
Denver Post ^ | 12/10/2007 | Demetria Gallegos

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937631/posts
Security Guard: ‘God Guided Me And Protected Me’
thedenverchannel.com ^ | December 10, 2007 | staff

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1937621/posts
Female Church Member With Personal Pistol Kills Assassin, Saves Lives
Leibowitz’s Canticle ^ | December 10, 2007 | Leibowitz

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1937609/posts
Church killer was failed missionary [New Life / YWAM shootings in Colorado]
Times Online ^ | 12/10/2007

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937607/posts
Guard: ‘It seemed like it was me, the gunman and God’
Colorado Springs Gazette ^ | December.10, 2007 | Tom Roeder

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937576/posts
Gunman in Colorado shooting identified, official says
Yahoo! AP ^ | 12/10/07 | JUDITH KOHLER

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937571/posts
“The Bravest Thing I’ve Ever Seen”
via Hugh Hewitt ^ | Monday, December 10, 2007 | unknown

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937559/posts
News Confernce at 4PM MST on Colorado Shooter
Colorado 9 News ^

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937551/posts
Colorado Church Gunman `Hated Christians’
Houston Chronicle ^ | 12-10-07 | Judith Kohler

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937543/posts
Source: One gunman responsible for Colorado shootings
CNN.com ^ | Dec 10, 2007 | cnn

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937499/posts
Police ID teens killed in New Life shootings
Colorado Springs Gazette ^ | December. 10, 2007 | Perry Swanson

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1937485/posts
Police Name Shooter [gunman at New Life Church in Colorado identified]
MyFox Colorado ^ | 12/10/2007

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937459/posts
CNN: “Female Security Guard Hailed as Hero”... “saved ‘hundreds of lives’”
www.cnn.com ^ | December 10, 2007 | CNN

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937352/posts
Colorado police look for links in church killings
Reuters ^ | 12/10/2007 | Keith Coffman

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937260/posts
Attacks may be linked
Denver Post ^ | December 10, 2007 | Allison Sherry

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937210/posts
Nine shot in 2 church-related Colorado attacks
Reuters ^ | Dec 9, 2007 | By Keith Coffman

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937068/posts
Four People Shot Outside Colorado Springs New Life Church
Fox News ^ | 09 DEC 07 | Fox News

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1936987/posts
2 dead, 2 hurt in Colo. Christian dorm shooting
MSNBC ^ | 12-9-2007 | Associated Press

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1936915/posts
Gunman wounds 4 in missionary center
Associated Press ^ | 9 December 2007 | Associated Press
~~~~~~

[Rte66]

[The previously deleted Murray messages from the midst of his rampage are now linked here:]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1937068/posts?page=2256#2256

[nw_arizona_granny]

You are right we are in danger, from many directions.

I can’t do video’s on this dial up connection.

Stay safe.

Merry Christmas.

[FormerLib]

It is good to be done with all of those who hated Him, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, first.