Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Colorado Heroine May Have Been Legally Prevented from Using Beretta as Security Guard
Vanity | 16 December, 2007 | Marktwain

Posted on 12/16/2007 10:43:41 AM PST by marktwain

Jeanne Assam, the heroine of the New Life Church shooting in Colorado Springs, would likely have been unable to carry the Beretta that she stopped the shooting with if she had been a licensed security guard.

An AP article published on 12 December noted that licensed security guards in Colorado Springs are restricted to the use of revolvers.

As Jeanne Assam was a volunteer parishioner who was performing security guard duties because the church did not want to hire “mercenaries”, she was almost certainly not affected by the regulations, which only apply to government regulated security guards.

Fortunately, her lack of official status with the state and city allowed her to carry a firearm with sufficient firepower to accomplish the necessary task.

Jeannette had to fire 10 rounds to keep her fellow parishoners safe.


TOPICS: US: Colorado; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: assam; banglist; beretta; churchshooting; gun; gunporn; newlifechurch
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200201-223 next last
The facts in the article are from various news sources on the web, and can be checked out pretty easily. Much of the MSM is referring to Jeanne as a "security guard", inferring that she was licensed by the state.

It is interesting to note that if she had been licensed by the state, she would have been prevented from using the Beretta that she used to stop the crime.

1 posted on 12/16/2007 10:43:49 AM PST by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: marktwain
Good thing she wasn't licensed by the state. A Beretta is a good gun. I can't see why one would be barred from carrying one. She saved a lot of lives that day.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

2 posted on 12/16/2007 10:46:35 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Sven rounds from a S&W 686+ would, I think, have decided the issue.


3 posted on 12/16/2007 10:48:22 AM PST by claudiustg (You know it. I know it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
Being that Beretta likely murdered his wife, I don't think he would make a good security guard either.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time, and keep your eye on the sparrow!

4 posted on 12/16/2007 10:50:17 AM PST by Clemenza (Rudy Giuliani, like Pesto and Seattle, belongs in the scrap heap of '90s Culture)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: goldstategop
What morons!!!!! The Beretta was not and is not a revolver.
Doesn't anyone check to make sure what they claim is true anymore?????
I think this crap cam right off the desk of Sara Brady!!!!!!
5 posted on 12/16/2007 10:50:21 AM PST by oldenuff2no (My dad ldft for Europe in)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

good loop-hole may be the same in other states....good to know for those who want to hire heat.


6 posted on 12/16/2007 10:51:49 AM PST by CGASMIA68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

7 posted on 12/16/2007 10:51:56 AM PST by Deo volente
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: oldenuff2no
"Restricted to the use of revolvers"

Not restricted from the use of them.

8 posted on 12/16/2007 10:53:27 AM PST by jimmyray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
An AP article published on 12 December noted that licensed security guards in Colorado Springs are restricted to the use of revolvers.

Please cite the CRS #

9 posted on 12/16/2007 10:54:42 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: oldenuff2no

You missed the point...

BECAUSE it is not a revolver, a LICENSED guard would not have been allowed to carry the Beretta.

Becuse she was NOT licensed, she was able to.


10 posted on 12/16/2007 10:55:38 AM PST by moonhawk (Fear and Loathing in '08: Hunter/Thompson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

One hit from a 1911 would have been better.


11 posted on 12/16/2007 10:56:09 AM PST by fella (The proper application of the truth far more important than the knowledge of it's existance."Ike")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: oldenuff2no
What morons!!!!! The Beretta was not and is not a revolver. Doesn't anyone check to make sure what they claim is true anymore????? I think this crap cam right off the desk of Sara Brady!!!!!!

Huh? What they're saying is that if she HAD BEEN A LICENSED SECURITY GUARD, she wouldn't have been allowed to use her Beretta, but as a private citizen with a CCW permit, she wasn't limited to using a revolver, which is what the licensed security guards are required to use.

Mark

12 posted on 12/16/2007 10:57:12 AM PST by MarkL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: XeniaSt

Here is the link that I first found the story at:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CO_CHURCH_SHOOTINGS_GUN_ORDINANCE_COOL-?SITE=ILROR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

I am unfamiliar with the CRS#. Is this an identifier for AP stories?


13 posted on 12/16/2007 10:57:52 AM PST by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: oldenuff2no
The point of the article is that Jeanne Assam was not a "licensed security guard". As such, it was fine for her to have her Beretta semi-auto pistol to perform the "security" task. Had she been state licensed as a security guard, she would have been limited to a revolver.

I agree with the previous poster with respect to an S&W 686+ with 7 rounds. Seven rounds of .357 magnum from a 686+ would likely have been equally effective. We don't know enough from the article to say whether the Beretta was 9mm or 40 S&W. Apparently 10 rounds did the job.

I still think the coroner lied in the public statement that shooter died from a self-inflicted shotgun wound after Assam hit him with 10 rounds from her Beretta. The shooter didn't have a shotgun. The weapons identified were are AR-15 rifle and two semi-auto handguns.

14 posted on 12/16/2007 10:59:53 AM PST by Myrddin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Terriergal

interesting read concerning our second amendment rights.


15 posted on 12/16/2007 11:00:59 AM PST by GOPPachyderm
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
It is interesting to note that if she had been licensed by the state, she would have been prevented from using the Beretta that she used to stop the crime.

Considering that the Beretta is a pretty big gun, she probably would have had a .357 wheelgun if that's what she had been restricted to. The perp would be just as dead.

Of course the perp had a 9mm semiautomatic too, but I guess wackos aren't restricted the way security guards are. Sheesh.

16 posted on 12/16/2007 11:01:00 AM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Who needs a “licensed security” guard?
Last summer we attended a rather large wedding in our town. The bride was from a well known family so there were a few hundred souls present - enough to pack the church.

As I sat myself towards the back, I looked around and counted a minimum of 14 people (all positioned near the back and/or doors) I knew were all carrying, myself included. Concealed by my sportcoat was a Glock 31 plus two spare mags. That’s 46 rounds of 357 Sig, and I was just one person. Some folks I know carry two guns. We are all seasoned competitors.
Heaven help anyone who started trouble.

These do-gooder jackasses need to quit splitting hairs and get off the backs of people who will stand up to evil.


17 posted on 12/16/2007 11:01:43 AM PST by LFOD (IRAQ - Back in Dixie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
I am unfamiliar with the CRS#. Is this an identifier for AP stories?

CRS is Colorado Revised Statutes i.e. State Law

18 posted on 12/16/2007 11:01:54 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

It is nearly a case of “No good deed goes unpunished”..


19 posted on 12/16/2007 11:03:00 AM PST by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: claudiustg; fella
Sven rounds from a S&W 686+ would, I think, have decided the issue.

One hit from a 1911 would have been better.

Of course, a single hit from anything is better than 30 misses. However is there any information about how many times the murderer was hit? If trying to keep him pinned down, the more the merrier, when it comes to shots fired. Though the use of "covering fire" isn't a good doctrine to be using in a civilian area.

But I agree, a more potent round would have been better. But if that's the round she's most comfortable with then that's what she should be using. The Bererra is a relatively large and heavy handgun for a 9mm, making it relatively easy to shoot (though some women and men with smaller hands dislike the wide double stack mag well grip).

Mark

20 posted on 12/16/2007 11:03:15 AM PST by MarkL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

She only needed a license if she was being compensated. She and the others were volunteers, like ushers, setup crews for the functions, ect...


21 posted on 12/16/2007 11:03:27 AM PST by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
Well she could stick with name brand...


22 posted on 12/16/2007 11:04:07 AM PST by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Myrddin
We don't know enough from the article to say whether the Beretta was 9mm or 40 S&W

9mm

But the perp had both a 9mm and a .40, along with a Bushmaster rifle.

23 posted on 12/16/2007 11:05:23 AM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
The security guard, Jeanne Assam, shot Murray with a Beretta 9mm semiautomatic handgun,

No wonder it took 12 rounds to drop the perp.

9mm will not penetrate body armor.

She needs to upgrade to at least .40 S&W


24 posted on 12/16/2007 11:05:55 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
It is interesting to note that if she had been licensed by the state, she would have been prevented from using the Beretta that she used to stop the crime.

Don't know about any state license requirements, but the rule about a wheel gun as opposed to a semi auto is a city ordnance. So the link says.

25 posted on 12/16/2007 11:06:39 AM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: El Gato
“Considering that the Beretta is a pretty big gun, she probably would have had a .357 wheelgun if that’s what she had been restricted to. The perp would be just as dead.”

Some Berettas are bigger than others. I have not been able to find what model she had, or what the capacity of the magazine she was using was.

It is pretty clear that it was a Beretta 9mm, though.

26 posted on 12/16/2007 11:06:57 AM PST by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: fella
Yea.I she had emptied a 1911 into him they would have had to pick him with a shovel.
27 posted on 12/16/2007 11:06:59 AM PST by painter (Oval Office, Fred. Might be something you ought to think about.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Myrddin
The point of the article is that Jeanne Assam was not a "licensed security guard".

Precisely. The MSM wants to make sure her status as a private citizen with a CCW never gets aired.

28 posted on 12/16/2007 11:07:53 AM PST by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
One alternate interpretation of "revolver" that might improve the odds...


29 posted on 12/16/2007 11:09:55 AM PST by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: org.whodat
“It is interesting to note that if she had been licensed by the state, she would have been prevented from using the Beretta that she used to stop the crime.”

“Don’t know about any state license requirements, but the rule about a wheel gun as opposed to a semi auto is a city ordnance. So the link says.”

Yes, it is a city ordnance. I believe it applies to licensed security guards. Perhaps security guards are licensed by the city instead of the state. I would love to have fellow freepers investigate this aspect.

30 posted on 12/16/2007 11:10:45 AM PST by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
http://www.state.co.us/oed/industry-license/IndDetail.cfm?id=114

THE STATE OF COLORADO DOES NOT LICENSE SECURITY GUARDS

Many local governments license security services, and may require criminal background checks and bonds. Business must check with every local authority where security service is provided.

Permit/registration required with local law enforcement if carrying gun.

31 posted on 12/16/2007 11:10:48 AM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Have it your way you idiot gun controlers.

32 posted on 12/16/2007 11:13:04 AM PST by Navy Patriot (The hyphen American with the loudest whine gets the grease.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: XeniaSt
It has not been established that the shooter was wearing body armor. I researched all the news stories I could find around the time of the shooting. I found no confirmation of that speculation. It's pretty easy to deliver a full magazine of 9mm into a target before the target hits the floor. Body armor will stop most handgun calibers (9mm, 40 S&W, 45Auto) due to the large cross sectional area of the bullet. The .22 caliber .223 (AR-15) or 5.7x28 have a smaller cross sectional area and sufficient velocity to penetrate body armor. A knife will slice with body armor with ease.
33 posted on 12/16/2007 11:13:48 AM PST by Myrddin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: org.whodat

“THE STATE OF COLORADO DOES NOT LICENSE SECURITY GUARDS

Many local governments license security services, and may require criminal background checks and bonds. Business must check with every local authority where security service is provided.

Permit/registration required with local law enforcement if carrying gun.”

Wonderful response time! Thank you for the information.


34 posted on 12/16/2007 11:14:31 AM PST by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Myrddin

“It has not been established that the shooter was wearing body armor.”

I don’t believe that he was. I found at least one source that said that he was wearing a sleeved shirt with pockets for magazines, as I recall.


35 posted on 12/16/2007 11:16:45 AM PST by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Myrddin
The .22 caliber .223 (AR-15) or 5.7x28 have a smaller cross sectional area and sufficient velocity to penetrate body armor. A knife will slice with body armor with ease.

or a .357 Sig

36 posted on 12/16/2007 11:18:13 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: MarkL

My choice would be my Glock 31C, with 15 rounds of 357 SIG on tap.

This vest thing has got me thinking though. Might not a 357 revolver loaded alternately with 125gr SJHP and 180gr hardcast be a winner?


37 posted on 12/16/2007 11:24:00 AM PST by claudiustg (You know it. I know it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: fella

I have a beretta 92 FS. It’s a very fine weapon. Shoots very straight. But I sure wouldn’t want to carry one on me 24-7. I’m more impressed this smallish female lugs the thing around all the time than I am that she actually shot and hit a bad guy with it.

For carry, I need something much smaller. Kahr, walther, keltec, seacamp, etc. Otherwise, I just leave it home.


38 posted on 12/16/2007 11:25:12 AM PST by mamelukesabre
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: claudiustg
Sven rounds from a S&W 686+

Does Sven have to be holding the revolver?


39 posted on 12/16/2007 11:26:55 AM PST by Larry Lucido
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

There are several different sized beretta 9mms, 40s and 45 acp autos.

They range from a ten shot subcompact to a sixteen shot 9mm.


40 posted on 12/16/2007 11:27:40 AM PST by Armedanddangerous (Chuin, Master of Sinanju (emeritus))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: LFOD
-—Concealed by my sportcoat was a Glock 31 plus two spare mags. That’s 46 rounds of 357 Sig, and I was just one person. -—

That’s my solution to the equation personally, but I only carry 15 rounds loaded and 1 spare magazine, so I’m limited to a measly 30 rounds.

41 posted on 12/16/2007 11:28:41 AM PST by claudiustg (You know it. I know it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: claudiustg
My choice would be my Glock 31C, with 15 rounds of 357 SIG on tap.

I sure would not want to fire a compensated pistol in dim light.

You would be blinded by the flash.


42 posted on 12/16/2007 11:32:52 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

I wonder if we could get the grouping photos from the autopsy? Proud of her!


43 posted on 12/16/2007 11:34:27 AM PST by Walkingfeather (u)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
There are some S&W K- and N- frame revolvers that would have done the trick.
44 posted on 12/16/2007 11:36:46 AM PST by delacoert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Walkingfeather

“I wonder if we could get the grouping photos from the autopsy? Proud of her!”

Another source said that, according to the Coroner, she hit the mass killer three times, twice in the thigh, and once in the wrist.

In this type of close combat, that is quite good shooting.


45 posted on 12/16/2007 11:37:34 AM PST by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Grammar is all.

The title uses “may,” which is basically the subjunctive in modern English usage, and suggests that she WAS a security guard and it’s POSSIBLE therefore that she would not have been able to use that particular weapon.

However, she was not a security guard, and thus she was simply using a particular weapon that was perfectly legimate for her to use.

Therefore, the headline should have been, “Colorado Heroine Would Have Been Legally Prevented from Using Beretta if a Security Guard.”


46 posted on 12/16/2007 11:39:49 AM PST by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: claudiustg
Sven rounds from a S&W 686+ would, I think, have decided the issue.

More so than 10 9mm rounds, but I don't really want to start that argument. I'll compromise by saying it's where you place the shots, not the caliber or power of the cartridge.

47 posted on 12/16/2007 11:40:32 AM PST by Hardastarboard (DemocraticUnderground.com is an internet hate site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: claudiustg
One round from my .475 Linebaugh (400gr @ 1400FPS) would have done the same thing. If it can stop an Alaskan Brown, it can stop a deranged twit.


48 posted on 12/16/2007 11:41:12 AM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: delacoert
“There are some S&W K- and N- frame revolvers that would have done the trick.”

Perhaps. She found the Beretta 9mm and 10 shots to be sufficient.

If one could be prescient, I would have suggested an AR-15 for the encounter, but you only have the choice of what you have with you at the time.

49 posted on 12/16/2007 11:41:38 AM PST by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

BTW, the headline is klutzy in any case. Da Post (NY Post) could have gotten the facts into about 5 words. Well, maybe 6.


50 posted on 12/16/2007 11:42:06 AM PST by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200201-223 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson