Posted on 12/20/2007 5:43:47 AM PST by Oshkalaboomboom
The Archbishop of Canterbury said yesterday that the Christmas story of the Three Wise Men was nothing but a 'legend'.
Dr Rowan Williams has claimed there was little evidence that the Magi even existed and there was certainly nothing to prove there were three of them or that they were kings.
Dr Williams argued that the traditional Christmas story was nothing but a 'legend'
He said the only reference to the wise men from the East was in Matthew's gospel and the details were very vague.
Dr Williams said: "Matthew's gospel says they are astrologers, wise men, priests from somewhere outside the Roman Empire, that's all we're really told. It works quite well as legend."
The Archbishop went on to dispel other details of the Christmas story, adding that there were probably no asses or oxen in the stable.
He argued that Christmas cards which showed the Virgin Mary cradling the baby Jesus, flanked by shepherds and wise men, were misleading. As for the scenes that depicted snow falling in Bethlehem, the Archbishop said the chance of this was "very unlikely".
In a final blow to the traditional nativity story, Dr Williams concluded that Jesus was probably not born in December at all. He said: "Christmas was when it was because it fitted well with the winter festival."
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
“Take it whence it comes. This man is a heretic, the ArchDruid, presiding over a group of limpwristed fairies prancing around in dresses and women in pantsuits with dog collars.”
LOL. Great Post. Sounds like something I wish I said.
Please expound on your great knowledge of the Holy Bible.
Constantine declared religious tolerance. It did not declare Christianity the religion of the empire. This is a myth used well by the DaVinci code crowd.
It is true that there are no wise men to be found in the modern Church of England....any reports to the contrary are no more than legend.
“...deduced from that that Jesus would be around 2 years old...”
Herod made no such determination that the child would be two years old. His declaration was that all male children two AND UNDER would be destroyed. The Wise Men found Jesus in Bethlehem and there is no reason to believe that he would have stayed there for a long period of time.
I can hear one braying ignorantly in Canterbury Cathedral.
Actually, some theorize that it may have been just the opposite. Depends on whether Constantine or Julian the Apostate officially instituted the "Natale Solis Invictus," December 25th.
Julian's Calendar of 354 institutes a festival "N(atalis) Invicti" listed for 25 Dec. with 30 chariot races. The difficulty is that both Julian and the Calendar post-date the celebration of Christmas on this date in Rome. What we need to see, is data that clarifies whether this was a pagan reaction to Christmas (i.e. Julian trying to coopt an established Christian celebration) or vice-versa.
Others argue "of course the pagans celebrated it first, because it's the winter solstice and they *must* have celebrated it," but there's no incontrovertible written proof either way.
BTW, Mssr. Archibishop, this allegedly non-Christian Mormon cultist believes implicitly the Gospel nativity narratives. It is one of the most powerful and inspiring factual events ever recorded.
He should read the book of Matthew.
There are some other aspects like looking through a prism say ... Is not December 25 most usually the shortest day of our year... meaning least amount of ‘sun’ light. Well another Scripture says the heavenly lights were to be used as signs, and for the Christian what sign is it to them to know the giver of life eternal would come to be with them in flesh on the shortest day of ‘sunlight’ in a year.
More than that also demonstrates when ‘life’ begins... at conception. Now I also know that our calendar is not the same calendar used from the ‘beginning’, but there is the shortest day of the year every year, so not even calendar makers can remove what that day symbolizes.
Huh? So whose relics are in the Cathedral at Cologne? (Koln)
Well of course there was no snow you idiot!!! It is that Damned Global Warming!!! Algore was preaching it then as he is now. Global warming, global warming. Let's all freeze together.
You are correct. The wise men do not belong at the manger scene. They came probably about two years later. That’s why the text in Matthew refers to a “house” not the manger. Also, that’s why Herod’s order to kill young boys used age 2 as a cutoff. Here’s how I view it:
- wise men see the star
- but it takes them two years to arrive (lol better late than never)
Merry Christmas.
It was Hippolyltus who first established with certainty, in his commentary on Daniel, written around A.D. 204 that Jesus was born on December 25. Bo Reicke, the early exegete from Basel, pointed moreover to the calendar of feasts, according to which, in Luke’s gospel, the accounts of the birth of the Baptist and the birth of Jesus are related to each other. It would follow from this that Luke in his Gospel presupposes December 25 as Jesus’ day of birth. On that day, the feast of the Dedication of the Temple, introduced by Judas Maccabeus in 164 B.C., was celebrated. At the same time, the date of Jesus’ birth was symbolized, so that with him, who arose as God’s light in the winter night, the true dedication of the Temple - the arrival of God in the midst of the world might take place.
Pope Benedict XVI
Images of Hope: Meditations on Major Feasts.
He also goes on to explain the ox and ass. Very good read from someone who does know the Bible inside out and upside down.
A fine example of Christian leadership. Yikes!
Since Jesus died ca. 30 AD, the time span between his death and the completion of all 4 written Gospels would have only been about 70 years. That might have been only a few years after the death of Jesus' mother Mary.
Excuse the pedantry, but the significance of this is that all Four Gospels were completed well within the lifetime of msny people who knew Jesus well and were first-hand witnesses.
So the Archbishop of Canterberry doesn’t believe the bible? Time to toss him out on his ear.
yes, but the job pays and it sure beats working.
What time of the year does the course of Abia fall? That date is required knowledge to know when the conception took place. Now John was 6 months in the womb when the conception took place and 6 months from the course of Abia is right around December 25th. Further the literal flesh birth of Christ was NOT in the dead of winter, it was at the end of harvest, tax season and head counting.
Now that is perhaps the most unique line of reasoning in this thread. And you definitely have a point.
But I sort of think of JEB as an Old Testament proportioned type of guy.
Kind of like the Alabama Sunday school student who asked if Robert E Lee was in the Old or the New Testament.
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