Posted on 12/28/2007 11:23:45 PM PST by rightinthemiddle
And, as I said, you are substantiating my point.
Just as all the reponses saying that it was colder/snowier than ever in east outer yehubitsville this year also substatiate my point.
Not for me. I’m also prepared for a week long power outage. And a drought.
You decide your significant factors and priorities, I’ll decide mine.
I'm curious, how have you prepared for a drought? Second, the only significant current drought is in the process of ending like it always does.
30 cubic foot freezer
multipurpose .. I can go a while without needing to mix with people (epidemic), If fruits and veggies are scarce or high priced, don’t need to buy them, etc.
Natural deep springs in walking distance.
enough saved empty plastic containers to fill if it seems that it might become necesary.
rainbarrel (not currently, though)
Sounds like very reasonable prep. Many who fall on the government-must-do-something side of the issue are not at all self-reliant and want to impose that on the rest of us. I personally have secure water about 200 feet below the river that has never dried out even in a real drought (1930’s). I have yet to get my well pump off the grid however.
oh i figured it out just fibne, and it was what I was commenting on-
#1: Global warming did happen, although some feel it’s run it’s course as there hasn’t been significant rise in temperatures since mid 1990’s
2: There is nothign to do about something that is 99% + a result of natural causes- I’m not sure how you equate diverting rainwater with various man made items with ‘doing something about’ global warming?
[[30 cubic foot freezer
multipurpose .. I can go a while without needing to mix with people (epidemic), If fruits and veggies are scarce or high priced, don’t need to buy them, etc.
Natural deep springs in walking distance.
enough saved empty plastic containers to fill if it seems that it might become necesary.
rainbarrel (not currently, though)]]
I think there has been a miscomunication here- I was under the impression that you were talking about doing something to subvert global wamring- instead, I think you were talking about doing something about the circumstances if it happens like preparing for the worst- My mistake-
No, it’s like the sequel to “West World” - where they replace world leaders with robots.
Dude, I came up with the perfect slogan for us “deniers” -
It’s the S-U-N, not the S-U-V.
Bump, good post.
to be accompanied by trhe ever popular song “Oh SOLAR-Me-Ohhhhhhh, Man’s not to Blame Don’t ya know”
There are quite a number of low cost, low tech things one can do to be prepared for disasters of various sorts, without turning one’s life upside down.
Neither I nor anyone I’ve read on FR is qualified to determine if there is a genuine “global warming” going on, or pinpoint the cause accurately if there is.
I am qualified to point out that plants are the simple, low cost way of reducing CO2 in the atmosphere, and, since they are quite cooperative about growing, can be deployed quickly and effectively if and when the time comes that the phenomenon is unequivocally real.
I am also old enough to remember when conservation was a conservative value, and for me that hasn’t changed. Such simple matters as insulation to prevent heat loss in the winter, shade trees and awnings to prevent heat gain in the summer reduce the need for energy input.
Nuclear power plants reduce not only the burning of fossil fuels, but the dependence on foreign pesthole countries.
For the life of me I can’t see why so many so-called conservatives are opposed to treating global warming as a real possibility.
For the life of me I can’t see why so many so-called conservatives are opposed to treating global warming as a real possibility.
There are several really good reasons. I studied Al Gores book and related material in the late 90's, came to conclusions mostly echoed here and have seen no alternative evidence or science since. My major conclusion was that warming is mostly natural, partly man-made. The directly man-made component is small since the added warming from man-made greenhouse gases is small and the rest of the warming from those added gases comes from water vapor feedback. That feedback was and is poorly modeled (the weather that controls the feedback is small scale and the models are too coarse to model that weather).
A second conclusion is that part of the recent rise in CO2 is natural occurring as warming occurs. A third conclusion is that there are no global positive feedbacks to take us into "run-away" warming.
In contradiction to my second conclusion, the warmists point to isotope ratios. But their isotope ratio analysis is not quantitative and only proves that some of the added CO2 is from fossil fuel. In contradiction to my third conclusion, the alarmists cherry-pick positive feedbacks such as melting glaciers and ice caps. But the changes in earth's albedo (light reflected from ice versus other surfaces) is very minimally changed by ice changes. The biggest albedo factor by far is cloud cover which again is poorly modeled.
Other freepers (e.g. cogitator) have made opposing conclusions but have the same lack of quantitative analysis to justify any alarmist conclusions. Read his profile, it is good, but notice how the quantitative analysis fades into a couple of loose estimates of natural CO2 rise or nothing at all in section #5. His section #7 may seem to contradict my claim that weather models are necessary for climate prediction. While weather prediction is not needed, weather models are because the convection and precipitation that control water vapor (and cloud) feedbacks requires accurate modeling of small scale features. The statistics matter like he says, but the statistics must be calculated using accurate models. The only alternative is to use current statistics which is incorrect since a warmer, wetter world will create different weather statistics.
Thanks for one of the best exchanges I’ve had on this subject. You’ve clarified some of the parameters involved in a manageable way.
In more general terms, (and going off geology classes from 50+ years ago), I continue to believe that the warmists are also not factoring in the potential for an ice age developing.
My personal bias, and it is no more than that, is that the CO2 increases alone can be leading to some warming, based on simple physics. The some warming can also change planetary climate and weather patterns, but neither our math nor our understanding of other contributing factors is yet adequate for good predictions but our biology is more than good enough to reduce CO2 rapidly, should we so desire.
Politically, aside from tying the whole subject to reducing the usage of fossil fuels, it seems to me to be too early (if real) to be developing other public policies on the national level.
There is an argument, though, to be made for individual states with strong aquifer reserves (as in the Ogallala aquifer) to restrict the draining into states without. The net loss is already well documented and does not require (further) global warming data to confirm. The basic usage of that reserve is already well beyond replacement potential, since it is not a simple matter of ground water replacement.
As for coastal flooding... well, smart folk will move well before beachfront property becomes bluewater fishing property. Pacific islands that are getting smaller will send their populations elsewhere.
And polar bears... I like them on aesthetic grounds, so let’s see what can be done to expand their habitat north or get them into protected breeding programs while we figure out if they can do it on their own, or other options if they can’t.
Ain’t no way, no how, that I’m gonna believe that we can’t have an impact on global climate if we so choose.
When I was a kid I’d wake up to the horse drawn wagons delivering the milk. The experts who had said we could never fly had been proven wrong. Then we split the atom.
In grad school there was a competition to get the use of the calculators in the physical chemistry department (I remember there were 3). My kid sister had a job working with a newfangled room sized thing called a computer. Awesome.
I am absolutely not even a bit conservative about what we can do if we put our minds to it. And if there are so-called “conservatives” saying that we cannot ever control a natural phenomenon like climate, I’ll re-name them, more correctly, as limited vision curmudgeons.
WWII seabees:...”The impossible will take a little longer”
Absolutely!
MSNBC says it, therefore, it MUST be true!
(Where's that "sarcasm" button on this infernal machine....)
God dunnit. That's all you have to know....
All that I care about is trying to figger out the best actions to take...
None whatsoever....
...and over what timeline.
No timeline necessary.
By the time "those more learned than us" finally figure out there never was anything to "global warming", they will be screaming about "the coming Ice Age".
(Again!)
Orange groves used to be a lot farther north than they are now....
We came close to that in 2000....
with Albore....
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