Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

ANSWERS TO 50 ANTI-MORMON QUESTIONS (LDS SITE FAIR)
FAIR (Foundation for Apologetics Information & Research) ^ | modified December 22, 2007 | FAIR Staff

Posted on 12/29/2007 8:34:35 AM PST by greyfoxx39

 

With the Romney candidacy spurring threads questioning the beliefs of Mormonism on FR, this site will provide the LDS-APPROVED ANSWERS for those who are interested in the debate.

Here are the first fifteen answers. The rest can be found at http://en.fairmormon.org/50_Answers

Two hundred graduating students at Brigham Young University-Hawaii have been urged to use the Internet - including blogs and other forms of "new media" - to contribute to a national conversation about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Answers to 50 Anti-Mormon Questions

Anti-Mormon literature tends to recycle the same themes. Some ministries are using a series of fifty questions, which they believe will help "cultists" like the Mormons. One ministry seems to suggest that such questions are a good way to deceive Latter-day Saints, since the questions "give...them hope that you are genuinely interested in learning more about their religion."

This ministry tells its readers what their real intent should be with their Mormon friend: "to get them thinking about things they may have never thought about and researching into the false teachings of their church." Thus, the questions are not sincere attempts to understand what the Latter-day Saints believe, but are a smokescreen or diversionary tactic to introduce anti-Mormon material.[1]

The questions are not difficult to answer, nor are they new. This page provides links to answers to the questions. It should be noted that the questions virtually all do at least one of the following:

  1. misunderstand or misread LDS doctrine or scripture;
  2. give unofficial material the status of official belief;
  3. assume that Mormons must have inerrantist ideas about scripture or prophets like conservative evangelical Protestants do;
  4. apply a strict standard to LDS ideas, but use a double standard to avoid condemning the Bible or their own beliefs if the standard was applied fairly to both.
 


Questions About LDS Prophets


1. Why does the Mormon church still teach that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God after he made a false prophecy about a temple built in Missouri in his generation (D&C 84:1-5)

This was not a prophecy, but a command from God to build the temple. There's a difference. Jesus said people should repent; just because many didn't doesn't make Him a false messenger, simply a messenger that fallible people didn't heed.

Learn more here: Independence temple to be built "in this generation"


2. Since the time when Brigham Young taught that both the moon and the sun were inhabited by people, has the Mormon church ever found scientific evidence of that to be true? (Journal of Discourses (1870), 13:271)

In Brigham (and Joseph's) day, there had been newspaper articles reporting that a famous astronomer had reported that there were men on the moon and elsewhere. This was published in LDS areas; the retraction of this famous hoax never was publicized, and so they may not have even heard about it.

Brigham and others were most likely repeating what had been told them by the science of the day. (Lots of Biblical prophets talked about the earth being flat, the sky being a dome, etc.—it is inconsistent for conservative Protestants to complain that a false belief about the physical world shared by others in their culture condemns Brigham and Joseph, but does not condemn Bible prophets.)

In any case, Brigham made it clear that he was expressing his opinion: "Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is." Prophets are entitled to their opinions; in fact, the point of Brigham's discourse is that the only fanatic is one who insists upon clinging to a false idea.


3. Why did Brigham Young teach that Adam is "our Father and our God" when both the Bible and the Book of Mormon (Mor. 9:12) say that Adam is a creation of God? (Journal of Discourses (1852) 1:50))

The problem with "Adam-God" is that we don't understand what Brigham meant. All of his statements cannot be reconciled with each other. In any case, Latter-day Saints are not inerrantists—they believe prophets can have their own opinions. Only the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve can establish official LDS doctrine. That never happened with any variety of "Adam-God" doctrine. Since Brigham seemed to also agree with statements like Mormon 9:12, and the Biblical record, it seems likely that we do not entirely understand how he fit all of these ideas together.


4. If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses (1854) 2:142-143)

Peter and the other apostles likewise misunderstood the timing of gospel blessings to non-Israelites. Even following a revelation to Peter, many members of the early Christian Church continued to fight about this point and how to implement it—even Peter and Paul had disagreements. Yet, Bible-believing Christians, such as the Latter-day Saints, continue to consider both as prophets. Critics should be careful that they do not have a double standard, or they will condemn Bible prophets as well.

The Latter-day Saints are not scriptural or prophetic inerrantists. They are not troubled when prophets have personal opinions which turn out to be incorrect. In the case of the priesthood ban, members of the modern Church accepted the change with more joy and obedience than many first century members accepted the extension of the gospel to the Gentiles without the need for keeping the Mosaic Law.


5. Since the Bible's test of determine whether someone is a true prophet of God is 100% accuracy in all his prophecies (Deut. 18:20-22), has the LDS Church ever reconsidered its teaching that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were true prophets?

Believing Christians should be careful. Unless they want to be guilty of a double standard, they will end up condemning many Biblical prophets by this standard.


6. Since the current LDS prophets sometimes contradict the former ones, how do you decide which one is correct?

Most "contradictions" are actually misunderstandings or misrepresentations of LDS doctrine and teachings by critics. The LDS standard for doctrine is the scriptures, and united statements of the First Presidency and the Twelve.

The Saints believe they must be led by revelation, adapted to the circumstances in which they now find themselves. Noah was told to build an ark, but not all people required that message. Moses told them to put the Passover lamb’s blood on their door; that was changed with the coming of Christ, etc.

No member is expected to follow prophetic advice "just because the prophet said so." Each member is to receive his or her own revelatory witness from the Holy Ghost. We cannot be led astray in matters of importance if we always appeal to God for His direction.


7. Since there are several different contradictory accounts of Joseph Smith's first vision, how did the LDS Church choose the correct one?

The First Vision accounts are not contradictory. No early member of the Church claimed that Joseph changed his story, or contradicted himself. Critics of the Church have not been familiar with the data on this point.

The shortest answer is that the Saints believe the First Vision not because of textual evidence, but because of personal revelation.

The Church didn't really "choose" one of many accounts; many of the accounts we have today were in diaries, some of which were not known till recently (1832; 1835 (2); Richards, Neibaur). The 1840 (Orson Pratt) and 1842 (Orson Hyde) accounts were secondary recitals of what happened to the Prophet; the Wentworth letter and interview for the Pittsburgh paper were synopsis accounts (at best). The account which the Church uses in the Pearl of Great Price (written in 1838) was published in 1842 by Joseph Smith as part of his personal history. As new accounts were discovered they were widely published in places like BYU Studies.


8. Can you show me in the Bible the LDS teaching that we must all stand before Joseph Smith on the Day of Judgment?

This is a misunderstanding and caricature of LDS doctrine. There is, however, the Biblical doctrine that the apostles will help judge Israel:

Ye [the apostles] are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Luke 22:28-30; see also Matt. 19:28)

Since the saints believe in modern apostles, they believe that those modern apostles (including Joseph) will have a role in judgment appointed to them by Jesus.

Those who condemn Joseph on these grounds must also condemn Peter and the rest of the Twelve.

Questions About LDS Scripture (excluding the Bible)


9. Can you show me archeological and historical proof from non-Mormon sources that prove that the peoples and places named in the Book of Mormon are true?

This question is based on the mistaken assumption that the Bible message that Jesus is Christ and Lord is somehow "proved" by archeology, which is not true. It also ignores differences between Old and New World archeology. For example, since we don't know how to pronounce the names of ANY Nephite-era city in the American archeological record, how would we know if we had found a Nephite city or not?


10. If the words "familiar spirit" in Is. 29:4 refer to the Book of Mormon, why does "familiar spirit" always refer to occult practices such as channeling and necromancy everywhere else in the Old Testament?

The term "familiar spirit," quoted in the often-poetic Isaiah (and used by Nephi to prophesy about the modern publication of the Book of Mormon) is a metaphor, not a description of any text or its origin.


11. Why did Joseph Smith condone polygamy as an ordinance from God (D. & C. 132) when the Book of Mormon had already condemned the practice (Jacob 1:15, 2:24)

The critics need to read the next verses. The Book of Mormon says that God may command polygamy, just a few verses later. (Jac. 2:30).

Many Biblical prophets had more than one wife, and there is no indication that God condemned them. And, the Law of Moses had laws about plural wives—why not just forbid them if it was evil, instead of telling people how they were to conduct it?

And, many early Christians didn't think polygamy was inherently evil:


12. Why were the words "white and delightsome" in 2 Nephi 30:6 changed to "pure and delightsome" right on the heels of the Civil Rights campaign for blacks?

The critics have their history wrong. The change dates to 1837. The change was made by Joseph Smith in the 1837 edition of the Book of Mormon, though it was not carried through in some other editions, which mistakenly followed the 1830 instead of Joseph’s change. It was restored in the 1981 edition, but that was nearly 150 years after the change was made by Joseph.

This issue has been discussed extensively in the Church's magazines (e.g. the Ensign), and the scholarly publication BYU Studies.


13. If God is an exalted man with a body of flesh and bones, why does Alma 18:26-28 and John 4:24 say that God is a spirit?

In Alma, the reference is to Jesus Christ, who before His birth did not have a physical body.

John 4:24 does not say God is "a" spirit, but says "God is spirit." There is no "a" in the Greek. The Bible also says "God is truth" or "God is light." Those things are true, but we don't presume God is JUST truth, or JUST light—or JUST spirit.

As one non-LDS commentary puts it:

That God is spirit is not meant as a definition of God's being—though this is how the Stoics [a branch of Greek philosophy] would have understood it. It is a metaphor of his mode of operation, as life-giving power, and it is no more to be taken literally than 1John 1:5, "God is light," or Deut. 4:24, "Your God is a devouring fire." It is only those who have received this power through Christ who can offer God a real worship.
- J. N. Sanders, A Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John, edited and completed by B. A. Mastin, (New York, Harper & Row, 1968), 147–148.


14. Why did God encourage Abraham & Sarah to lie in Abra. 2:24? Isn't lying a sin according to the 10 commandments? Why did God tell Abraham and Sarah to lie when 2 Nephi condemns liars to hell?

In the Bible, there are accounts of God commanding or approving less than complete disclosure. These examples seem to involve the protection of the innocent from the wicked, which fits the case of Abraham and his wife nicely.


15. Why does the Book of Mormon state that Jesus was born in Jerusalem (Alma 7:10) when history and the Bible state that he was born outside of Jerusalem, in Bethlehem?

The Bible also says that Bethlehem ("the city of David") is at Jerusalem. (2_Kings 14:20) Was the Bible wrong? (Bethlehem is in the direct area of Jerusalem, being only about seven miles apart.)

 


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: elections; lds; magicundies; mormon; mormonism; religion; religionmormon; romney; undies
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 1,001-1,018 next last
To: Brad from Tennessee

~”The history of Mormonism is fascinating. It intertwines with the great migration and development of the American west.”~

I agree with that. Whether or not you like the theology, Mormons have been quite influential in the development of American culture and the settlement of the West. Some of the Mormon pioneer history is amazing, given what these people were able to scratch out of bare earth.


61 posted on 12/29/2007 10:14:30 AM PST by tantiboh
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: tantiboh

There is a difference of opinion between Baptists and Calvinists in this regard. Honestly, I don’t know what happens to a baby. Maybe they do go to heaven because all that is involved is Adam’s sin at that age.

But, an age of accountability is not found in Scripture, and trying to decide on an age when a person is “accountable” is foolish and adding to Scripture. Why 8 and not 10 or 6?

But, the point is, nobody is innocent. I think God may pardon all infants who die, however. Does he? I don’t know. That is one of the mysteries.


62 posted on 12/29/2007 10:15:48 AM PST by rwfromkansas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: tantiboh

Children , sin or not are innocent to God until they are old enough or have the exposure to accept Christ as their savior.

No one in my denomination thinks children are damned. That is ridiculous.


63 posted on 12/29/2007 10:16:19 AM PST by wardaddy (I have come to the conclusion that even though imperfect....Thompson is my choice by far.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: Prophet in the wilderness

I believe it says in the Bible that the punishment for blasphemy is a public stoning.


64 posted on 12/29/2007 10:16:47 AM PST by Swiss
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: FastCoyote

It sounds a lot like “When they are wrong, they are speaking for themselves but otherwise, they are speaking directly from God”.

It baffles me that people don’t find this stuff just a bit suspicious.


65 posted on 12/29/2007 10:17:28 AM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy
No one in my denomination thinks children are damned. That is ridiculous.

We are all unworthy of Heaven.

66 posted on 12/29/2007 10:18:19 AM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

Comment #67 Removed by Moderator

To: tantiboh
You’re being too smart by half, Greyfoxx. I guess I’m still waiting for my call from Salt Lake to “mobilize.” We’re passionate, not organized.

Two hundred graduating students at Brigham Young University-Hawaii were urged today to use the Internet — including blogs and other forms of “new media” — to contribute to a national conversation about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Elder M. Russell Ballard, an apostle in the Church, told the mostly Mormon student body that conversations about the Church would take place whether or not Church members decided to participate in them.

Elder M. Russell Ballard’s speech given at Brigham Young University-Hawaii’s graduation ceremony on 15 December 2007.

“We cannot stand on the sidelines while others, including our critics, attempt to define what the Church teaches,” he said.

“While some conversations have audiences in the thousands or even millions, most are much, much smaller. But all conversations have an impact on those who participate in them. Perceptions of the Church are established one conversation at a time.”

Church leaders have publicly expressed concern that while much of the recent extensive news reporting on the Church has been balanced and accurate, some has been trivial, distorted or without context.

Elder Ballard said there were too many conversations going on about the Church for Church representatives to respond to each individually, and that Church leaders “can’t answer every question, satisfy every inquiry and respond to every inaccuracy that exists.”

He said students should consider sharing their views on blogs, responding to online news reports and using the “new media” in other ways.

But he cautioned against arguing with others about their beliefs. “There is no need to become defensive or belligerent,” he said.


68 posted on 12/29/2007 10:19:49 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Mitt.... despite what some here are saying. it wasn’t a lie! It was a BLUNDER...by Romney supporter.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39
9. archeological...proof...that the peoples and places named in the Book of Mormon are true?

This question is based on the mistaken assumption that the Bible message that Jesus is Christ and Lord is somehow "proved" by archeology

What a total non-answer. The question asks for proof of the people and places mentioned in the book, not that there is a god. There is clearly archeological evidence of the peoples and places mentioned in the bible - so how about it Mormons.

69 posted on 12/29/2007 10:20:10 AM PST by SwankyC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry; Gamecock; xzins
horses in the Book of Mormon were really tapirs

Tapir-Back Riders
Tune: "Paperback Writer" by the Beatles

Dear Sir or Madam will you read my book?
It took me years to write, will you take a look?
It's based on a novel by a man named Joe
And the main idea is the Lamanites were
Tapir-back riders
Tapir-back riders

See, the Nephites came to the promised land
And those dang exmos just don't understand
That when they said "horse" they meant something else
But it all makes sense if you know that they were
Tapir-back riders
Tapir-back riders

I know the whole thing doesn't hold up well
If you take it literally, but what the *heck*
There’s this group of guys that work at FARMS
And they can save the whole thing by postulating
Tapir-back riders
Tapir-back riders

They say the book is really history
If so where's the proof? Ah, a mystery
External evidence is perpetually due
Apparently the best that they can do is
Tapir-back riders
Tapir-back riders

What the folks at FARMS don’t seem to understand
Is we want the truth, not sleight of hand
The Church asks for all, but gives nothing back
The best they have to offer is a team of hacks with
Tapir-back riders
Tapir-back riders


70 posted on 12/29/2007 10:23:59 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("Therefore the prudent keep silent at that time, for it is an evil time." - Amos 5:13)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy

Too funny!!

Now I’ve got that song stuck in my head. I’ll probably sing it to my Mormon Mother-in-law...Oopsie!


71 posted on 12/29/2007 10:25:28 AM PST by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: rwfromkansas
But, an age of accountability is not found in Scripture...Why 8 and not 10 or 6?

It is in LDS D&C.

But since only LDS consider that scripture I go with the age eight is about average. Personally I think it is mental age that more tells age of accountability, so could range anywhere with some (insert PC term for mentally challenged here) never reaching that age. Age eight is good though.

I wouldn't expect a child of three for example to know the difference between right and wrong. Yes they can do wrong, but they don't know. That is why I don't think they are accountable.

I think God may pardon all infants who die, however. Does he? I don’t know. That is one of the mysteries.

A question answered by the Book of Mormon. It is not a mystery to the LDS church.

72 posted on 12/29/2007 10:26:49 AM PST by Domandred (Eagles soar, but unfortunately weasels never get sucked into jet engines)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39
Forgot

Link

to #68

73 posted on 12/29/2007 10:27:04 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Mitt.... despite what some here are saying. it wasn’t a lie! It was a BLUNDER...by Romney supporter.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: Domandred
Elaborate on your comment, please.

Yes please. I like having my religion equated to radical islam.

My sister and my nephews are LDS. I don't know that CAIR has ever been equated to radical Islam, but I don't know why a religion needs an organization to "explain" common "misconceptions" to the public.

The Foundation for Apologetic Information & Research (FAIR) is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of LDS (Mormon) doctrine, belief and practice.

74 posted on 12/29/2007 10:27:09 AM PST by neodad (USS Wabash (AOR 5) The Wabash Cannonball)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy
Rotflol!!

But it all makes sense if you know that they were
Tapir-back riders
Tapir-back riders

75 posted on 12/29/2007 10:29:54 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain! True Supporters of Our Troops Support the Necessity of their Sacrifice!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: Reaganesque; Zakeet
Lying for the Lord ... in this case, playing two-step deceit to deal with opposition to the cult:

[Excerpts from an Essay by Ken Clark for MormonThink. Ken worked for the Church Education System (CES) of the LDS Church for 27 years. He also served as a bishop; a calling he enjoyed as much as full time instructor and Coordinator for the Church Education System. He loved (and still loves) the students and the ward members.]

“The right to lie in the service of your own interests is highly valued and frequently exercised”—Nero Wolfe<[p> I began this exercise when I was a full time employee of the LDS Church Education System (CES). I worked as a Seminary Principal/teacher, Institute teacher/Director, and CES Stake Coordinator of CES Programs from 1975 - 2002. (I signed a Letter of Agreement with CES to serve as the Director of the Pullman, Washington LDS Institute of Religion adjacent to Washington State University in July 2002. I resigned on August 7, 2002.) I continue to cherish the students, ward leaders and others I grew to respect in the LDS Church. I still write to a few beloved former students. I started this list in an effort to defend the church from its detractors. I was insulted to hear detractors accuse LDS church leaders of dishonesty, or other embarrassing actions. I “knew” because of my testimony the criticisms could not be true.

As an informal defender, I noted that those charging the church with dishonesty had the facts on their side from time to time. I defended the leaders in these cases by pointing out that (1) all organizations are run by humans and of course you’ll find unrepeated instances of deception by its leaders; and (2) the leaders of the LDS church are working out their salvation too as they gain wisdom and experience; of course they will err from on occasion. I created other ways to deal with the cognitive dissonance, but these were the most frequent rationalizations. It was a way of saying that while there may have been isolated instances of a leader here and there telling a lie. But I saw no evidence that church leaders engaged in a pattern of premeditated deceit.

Sometimes I caught myself and other member missionaries telling less than the whole truth, or embellishing in order to defend the church. I gave myself permission to be slightly dishonest because I was trying to achieve a higher moral purpose; or so I reasoned. I resolved not to be dishonest when defending the church. I decided to let the lives and sermons of the church leaders speak for themselves. They would have to represent the church so I could be more honest with myself and others. If detractors were right some of the time, the church and I would have to deal with it.

I began keeping a list of documented prevarications. I wanted to prove that deceit was not an established practice. Instead it was sometimes a misunderstanding, a remark out of context or an innocent mistake. As I read more church history the list began to grow, and I recognized that an institutional practice had been established by Joseph Smith and carried on by church leaders; including those who serve currently. It indicated an accepted practice and pattern. When the church or its leaders sought protection, it was acceptable to fib, deceive, minimize, exaggerate, prevaricate or outright lie. As you will read below, church leaders have admitted that deception was a useful tool used to protect the church and its leaders “when they are in tight spot,” or “to beat the devil at his own game.” They confess that lying for the Lord constitutes a greater good – and that God approves of deception – it’s lying for a superior cause; a higher law. I was devastated at first to learn these uncomfortable truths. I had not expected to find that lying for the Lord was a common and acceptable method for avoiding embarrassment. I had naively believed that when church leaders erred, they followed the steps of repentance the church taught to all its members. I believed they had the courage to face their mistakes with humility and confess or admit their shortcomings; no matter what the consequences; to live the same standards they set for the members. I believed they were honest in all their dealings with their fellow men/women.

D. Michael Quinn called the practice of deceit by church leaders “theocratic ethics.” (The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, page 112) It was an ethos established by Joseph Smith to protect the church or its leaders by lying if necessary. Dan Vogel in his excellent work, Joseph Smith: The Making of a Prophet, described Smith’s philosophy. Smith used deception if it resulted in good – as he saw it. Smith had Moroni, an ancient American prophet and custodian of gold plates say, “And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. (Moroni 4:11-12). This translated into the following ethic. If deception was necessary to do good, or bring a soul to Christ, then it was worth it.

Smith also raised lying to higher moral ground when he rationalized both lying and murder in 1 Nephi 4. Nephi was inspired by God to dress in disguise and alter his voice to deceive and capture a servant and then murder Laban in order to secure an ancient historical record on plates of brass. God, according to Smith, not only approved of lying, but also murder if it brought about the greater good – however Smith defined it. In Missouri Smith and his counselor Sidney Rigdon threatened to kill Mormon’s who disagreed with Smith’s policies and initiatives (Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, Chapter 3, “Theocratic Beginnings,” 79-103).

Smith lied in order to convince others that he could see subterranean treasure by pulling a hat over his face and peering into a magic rock placed inside (Dan Vogel, Joseph Smith: The Making of a Prophet, 82-86). Smith determined that God had ordered the prophet Abraham to lie to protect himself and his wife Sarah from harm (Abraham 2:23-25).

Smith’s arrest, trial and conviction in Bainbridge, NY for fraud in 1826 is well documented. He was found guilty for glass looking. Our modern term for Smith would be a con artist. Smith’s conscience permitted him to lie when he thought it was necessary to earn a living, though it meant conning the gullible out of their money. He claimed to see buried treasure in a rock placed in the bottom of his hat (pulled over his face) and charged a fee to locate the riches. The moral ethic at work was that if he could deceive and get away with it, and if some good could might come from it (making a living wage), then there was no harm in it. Modern scams operate on the same principle.

Smith was comfortable with lying and deception and wove it in the fabric of Mormonism as a way of dealing with undesirables, unwanted publicity, tattlers, and others who disagreed with Smith’s deception. Some excellent sources that record Smith’s deception (and the deception of others) who are nevertheless charitable to Smith are: Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery, Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith, Prophet’s Wife, “Elect Lady”, Polygamy’s Foe. Dan Vogel, Joseph Smith: The Making of a Prophet, Signature Books, Salt Lake City, 2004. D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, Signature Books, Salt Lake City, 1994. D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, Signature Books, Salt Lake City, 1997. Fawn Brodie, No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith, Vintage Books, NY, 1995. B. Carmon Hardy, Solemn Covenant: The Mormon Polygamous Passage, University of Illinois Press, 1992. (The essay on Lying for the Lord in the Hardy appendix is masterful and yet compassionate.) Also, Will Bagley’s, Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows, University of Oklahoma Press, Norman, OK 2002, offers insight into the minds of other church leaders who used deception effectively too.

The following is a list or prevarications that I compiled as I read church history. Some rate higher on the “deceit-scale” than others. It’s not exhaustive, and only lists a sample of some of the well known incidents of deception on the part of LDS church leaders. I referenced each of the numbered incidents with the secondary source. It’s easier for the normal reader to locate the incidents and additional information in a secondary source. The excellent footnotes provided in the secondary sources will provide you with the primary sources if you wish to review them.

...

+++1. Knowing that the official version of the First Vision by Joseph Smith was unknown to the members of the church during the 1830s, the church leadership kept Joseph’s original handwritten version of the First Vision hidden in the church historian’s office for over a century after the church was organized. The 1832 account, in Joseph’s own handwriting does not mention God the Father as a visitor, or the religious excitement around Smith’s home, or require him to remain aloof from other churches; and he was not called to restore the true church of Christ on earth. The “vision” resembles a common Christian epiphany rather than an extraordinary, literal visitation and call to be a special servant of the restoration. (James B. Allen, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1966, pages 29-45. See also Fawn Brodie, No Man Knows My History, pp.24-25)

+++2. The Church consistently describes in words and paintings, the visitation of Moroni to Joseph on September 21, 1823. Moroni is pictured floating above Joseph or next to his bed, alone in his bedroom. The pictures do not portray Joseph’s five brothers that slept in the same room with him. A restored Smith house is used for LDS tours showing the small room and only two beds for six brothers. Nothing resembling the actual sleeping arrangement is hinted at in the church’s official literature and pictorial recreations of the scene. It would seem inconceivable to most investigators (and perhaps many members) that Joseph’s brothers sleeping in the same room and bed would not have been awakened by the events as described by Joseph. The inaccurate depictions and lessons tell a different story to make it seem more believable. This is also an example of the deceptive “milk before meat” principle used to suppress questionable historical stories about Mormon origins. http://www.mormonthink.com/moroniweb.htm

+++3. Joseph Smith never finished the history of the church he was dictating prior to his death. The Joseph Smith History was completed in August 1856 by historians that tried to make the history appear as if it was written by Joseph. They wrote approximately sixty percent of the history after his death. The church failed to inform its members of this fact, preferring to let them believe that the official history was written by Joseph Smith. (Brigham Young University Studies, Summer 1971, pp.466, 469, 470, 472). In the middle of the 20th century, after the deception was pointed out by critics, the church admitted to the practice. When something in History of the Church proved embarrassing, such as the account of the Kinderhook Plates, which is written in the first person by Smith, the practice was for LDS apologists to claim that a scribe or someone else must have written that section. (Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Shadow or Reality? Chapter 7, “Changes in the Joseph Smith History,” pages 126-142)

+++4. The famous Rocky Mountain Prophecy was a later addition to the official church history and not uttered by Joseph Smith as a prediction that the Mormons would inhabit the Salt Lake Valley. Despite the fact it is not authentic; the church presented it as such for more than a century. The ‘Rocky Mountain Prophecy’ was added at a later time to the history after the Mormons arrived in Utah. (Jerald and Sandra Tanner, The Changing World of Mormonism, online at the utlm website, p. 406) The church had no intentions of giving this information to members, in order to make their history appear more faith promoting. The deception was exposed by Jerald and Sandra Tanner.

+++5. Related to changes in the history of the church, Jerald and Sandra Tanner published the following in The Changing World of Mormonism, “One of the most interesting changes in the history is concerned with the name of the angel who was supposed to have appeared in Joseph Smith's room and told him about the Book of Mormon plates. In the history, as it was first published by Joseph Smith, we learn that the angel's name was Nephi: "He called me by name and said ... that his name was Nephi" (Times and Seasons, vol. 3, p.753). “In modern printings of the History of the Church, this has been changed to read "Moroni": "He called me by name, and said ... that his name was Moroni ..." (History of the Church, vol. 1, p.11).
+++a. “The original handwritten manuscript shows that the name was originally written as "Nephi," but that someone at a later date wrote the word "Moroni" above the line (see photograph in Mormonism—Shadow or Reality? p.136). In the book Falsification of Joseph Smith's History, page 13, Tanners showed that this change was made after Joseph Smith's death. An examination of the duplicate copy of the handwritten manuscript, Book A-2, provides additional evidence that the change was not made during Joseph Smith's lifetime. This manuscript was not even started until about a year after Smith's death. Like the other manuscript (Book A-1), it has the name "Nephi" with the name "Moroni" interpolated above the line.
+++b. “It is interesting to note that Joseph Smith lived for two years after the name "Nephi" was printed in Times and Seasons and he never published a retraction. In August, 1842, the Millennial Star, printed in England, also published Joseph Smith's story stating that the angel's name was "Nephi" (see Millennial Star, vol. 3, p.53). On page 71 of the same volume it reads that the message of the angel Nephi ... opened a new dispensation to man...." “The name was also published in the 1851 edition of the Pearl of Great Price as "Nephi." Walter L. Whipple, in his thesis written at BYU, stated that Orson Pratt "published The Pearl of Great Price in 1878, and removed the name of Nephi from the text entirely and inserted the name Moroni in its place
(reprinted in The Changing World of Mormonism, Chapter 13, pages 409-410).

+++6. Official Mormon histories have omitted references to Joseph Smith’s drinking and use of tobacco in order to preserve the image of their prophet, who if living today (2007) would be unworthy and unable to qualify for a temple recommend in the church he founded. (Changing World of Mormonism, pages 413-414 and Chapter 18 of the same online book). “Joseph tested the Saints to make sure their testimonies were of his religion and not of him as a personable leader. Amasa Lyman, of the First presidency, related: 'Joseph Smith tried the faith of the Saints many times by his peculiarities. At one time, he had preached a powerful sermon on the Word of Wisdom, and immediately thereafter, he rode through the streets of Nauvoo smoking a cigar. Some of the brethren were tried as was Abraham of old'" ("Joseph Smith as an Administrator," Master's Thesis, Brigham Young University, May 1969, p.161) (Quotation from The Changing World of Mormonism, page 31).

+++7. The LDS Church has engaged in a cover up of history since its origin. In 1972 Leonard Arrington was appointed to serve as the church historian. Writing six years previously, Dr. Arrington had said: "it is unfortunate for the cause of Mormon history that the Church Historian's Library, which is in the possession of virtually all of the diaries of leading Mormons, has not seen fit to publish these diaries or to permit qualified historians to use them without restriction." (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought (Spring 1966, p.26). Leonard Arrington was demoted in 1980 and sent away from the church historians office to BYU because he was a threat to the faith promoting history the church insisted he support (Deseret News, Church Section, July 5, 1980). The church does not report accurate unflattering historical facts about its origins and leaders to the membership or the world, unless forced to by critics’ revelations of deception.

+++8. Joseph Smith claimed that God revealed certain doctrines to him and he planned on publishing them in the Book of Commandments before Missourians destroyed the printing press. He later published a revised version with additional revelations and called it the Doctrine and Covenants. Apologists claim that added material was only to help the revelation seem clearer to the reader. "Many words were added to the revelations in order to more clearly state what Joseph Smith intended to write.... Many times phrases were added to increase the ability of the reader to get the meaning of the verse" (Melvin J. Petersen "A Study of the Nature of and Significance of the Changes in the Revelations as Found in a Comparison of the Book of Commandments and Subsequent Editions of the Doctrine and Covenants," Master's thesis, BYU, 1955, typed copy, p.147).
Joseph significantly altered and changed the meaning of many of the original revelations. David Whitmer was perhaps the most vocal opponent to the revisions – all of which gave more authority and power to Joseph. (Letter written by David Whitmer, published in the Saints' Herald, February 5, 1887). To this day, LDS members are unaware of the significant revisions; that the meaning of some of the “revelations” was reversed. This raises a question about the honesty of Joseph and the current church leaders. It also raises the question whether Joseph Smith received revelations from God or whether they originated in his own mind. If Mormons continue to insist that JS was inspired by God, critics might ask, “Which God? – the one who revealed the first revelations of the one who revealed the later ones that contradicted the first?” For a fuller treatment by David Whitmer see An Address To All Believers in Christ.

+++9. La Mar Peterson explained, “The important details that are missing from the "full history" of 1834 are likewise missing from the Book of Commandments in 1833. The student would expect to find all the particulars of the Restoration in this first treasured set of 65 revelations, the dates of which encompassed the bestowals of the two Priesthoods, but they are conspicuously absent.... The notable revelations on Priesthood in the Doctrine and Covenants, Sections 2 and 13, are missing, and Chapter 28 gives no hint of the Restoration which, if actual, had been known for four years.
More than four hundred words were added to this revelation of August 1829 in Section 27 of the Doctrine and Covenants; the new material added the names of heavenly visitors and two separate ordinations. The Book of Commandments gives the duties of Elders, Priests, Teachers, and Deacons and refers to Joseph's apostolic calling but there is no mention of Melchizedek Priesthood, High Priesthood, Seventies, High Priests, nor High Councilors. These words were later inserted into the revelation on Church organization and government of April, 1830, making it appear that they were known at that date, but they do not appear in the original, Chapter 24 of the Book of Commandments three years later. Similar interpolations were made in the revelations known as Sections 42 and 68 (Problems In Mormon Text, by LaMar Petersen, pp.7-8. See also D. Michael Quinn, Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, Chapter 1, “The Evolution of Authority.” The online book, The Changing Story of Mormonism, Chapter 16 by Jerald and Sandra Tanner also contains the story of the evolution of the Mormon priesthood with which most Mormons are unfamiliar.

There is more, much more, for those who insist on deceiving readers further.

76 posted on 12/29/2007 10:29:57 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39

Just go to the home site. http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=e419fb40e21cef00VgnVCM1000001f5e340aRCRD

You’ll see “Elder Ballard Urges Students to Use New Media.” right on the very home page. This means all good mormons with internet access should be following his admonition to “use new media” (the internet).

I think we see a good portion here on FR. How many new sign-ups have you and I seen on the Romney/Mormon threads?


77 posted on 12/29/2007 10:29:59 AM PST by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: Swiss
Yes. that may have been true in the Old Testament in Israel, but, in the New Testament, we just don’t associate with them and excommunicate ( kick them out of the church ) them from the church.
78 posted on 12/29/2007 10:32:32 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: tantiboh
Sin nature, yes.

Although I believe that there is an age of accountability. And that age is variable.

Therefore, I wouldn't put a strict number of years on accountability.....IOW, I've met some 6 yr olds..that had more pure faith and Christian love than many...And they knew what sin was...and the consequences of it.

I've also known 7 yr olds..that were most certainly capable of sin. And did it.

fwiw-

79 posted on 12/29/2007 10:33:38 AM PST by Osage Orange (Molon Labe)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39

Dude, you gotta take LSD before reading thses LDS apologetics. Whew!


80 posted on 12/29/2007 10:33:54 AM PST by Revolting cat! (We all need someone we can bleed on...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 1,001-1,018 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson