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Truth Squad: Response to Misleading Club For Growth Attack Ad
Mike Huckabee for President ^ | 12/26/2007 | Mike Huckabee for President

Posted on 12/29/2007 5:00:21 PM PST by wastedpotential

Governor Huckabee's record on taxes as a steward of the public’s money has been CLEAR and consistent as a conservative with strong pro-growth.policies. The Club for Growth misrepresents this record. Governor Huckabee is a fiscal conservative who cut taxes almost 100 times in the state of Arkansas. He doubled the standard deduction and the child care credit, eliminated the marriage penalty, repealed capital gains taxes for home sales, lowered the capital gains rate, expanded the homestead exemption and set up tax-free savings accounts for medical care and college tuition. The fact is that when Governor Huckabee began in office, the tax rate was 1% for the poorest taxpayers and 7 percent for the richest – the tax rates remained exactly the same when he left the governor’s office 11 years later. The sales tax only went up 1 penny in 10 ½ years and the gas tax 3 cents per gallon. The Governor believes differently than the Club for Growth – there are many in that group who believe that believe public FUNDING should never be considered to pay for such things as highways, prisons, schools and Medicare.

About the Video Clip

In 2003 the state's chief financial officer projected a $62.3 million revenue shortfall that would result in cuts in state services, possible layoffs, tax increases or the possible repeal of late 1990s tax cuts. Governor Huckabee told the Legislature that he would accept any recommendation they could agree on in order to meet the law's requirement to balance the budget. The Legislature was presented a series of options and chose to increase the tax on tobacco.

About the Club for Growth's Attack Ad

The attack ad was financed by Steve Stephens, the chairman of ClubforGrowth.net and a wealthy political rival from Little Rock. Because Governor Huckabee supports earmark reform, Stephens stands to lose millions of dollars in pork for his businesses when the Governor is elected President. (“Earmarks” is the term used to refer to a provision in legislation that directs funds to be spent on specific projects. Typically, legislators use earmarks to direct money to a particular organization or project in his/her home state or district. These mandates circumvent the merit-based or competitive allocation process.) Even the liberal New York Times said that the Club for Growth was distorting Governor Huckabee's record. Last week they wrote an article explaining how the tax increases were used to improve education and infrastructure in Arkansas. [Note: The full text of the article is at the end of this briefing sheet.]

The link to the NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/us/politics/02huckabee.html

Why the Governor Raised Taxes

The Arkansas constitution, in a measure that should be lauded by all fiscal conservatives, requires that the state budget be balanced.

More than 90% of the state's budget is spent on education, Medicare, prisons, and human services.

Naturally, cutting spending is always the first response of conservatives, as it was for Governor Huckabee. But that solution is inadequate when there is very little discretionary spending available in the budget.

Unable to resort to deficit spending (as other candidates are able to do) the Arkansas Legislature was forced to raise taxes to pay for infrastructure repair, conservation efforts, court-mandated education expenditures, and unfunded federal mandates.

Governor Huckabee returned almost $400 million to Arkansas taxpayers. He believes it is immoral to take more money from taxpayers than is needed to run the government, and if a surplus occurs because of growth in the economy and good fiscal policy, it should be returned to the people.

He was the first Governor of Arkansas to pass a broad-based tax cut in the history of the state.

He also doubled the standard deduction to $2,000 for individuals and to $4,000 for married couples, as well as the childcare tax credit and eliminated the marriage penalty.

He eliminated the capital gains tax on the sale of a home.

He eliminated the state income tax for families below the poverty line.

He reduced the capital gains tax for businesses and individuals.

He indexed the income tax to protect people from paying higher taxes because of "bracket creep."

Governor Huckabee left the state with almost a $1 billion surplus- a state record, setting the stage for further tax reductions. The “Huckabee Surplus” enabled his successor to follow Huckabee’s lead to begin the elimination of the state sales tax on food.

He urged that the surplus should go back to the taxpayers in the form of a rebate or tax cut.

He cut welfare rolls by almost 50 percent.

With respect to the tax and spending that he had under his control, spending rose about six-tenths of one percent a year during his ten-and-a-half year tenure.

Specific Taxes Mentioned in the Attack Ad

Sales Tax Hike (1996): Voters approved 1/8 cent sales tax increase to fund conservation and park services to preserve Arkansas natural and cultural heritage.

Gas and Diesel Fuel Tax Hike (1999): Arkansans supported a 3 cent per gallon fuel tax increase that allowed Arkansas to completely rehabilitate the interstate highway system, changing the interstate system from one of the worst in the country to the best according to Truckers Magazine.

Cigarette Tax Hike (2001): The cigarette tax increase of 25 cents per pack was used to fund state healthcare obligations. Arkansas tobacco taxes are still low, 33rd in the U. S.

Nursing Home Bed Tax (2001): The bed-tax on private nursing home patients was instituted to generate revenue for a nearly 3-to-1 match in federal Medicaid funds. Without this revenue low-income patients would not be able to find beds in nursing homes.

Grocery Tax: Huckabee opposed repeal (2002): This was actually a soft drink tax that Governor Huckabee opposed abolishing because it would drain $168 million from the state's Medicaid budget.

Income Surcharge Tax (2003) – In 2003 there was a temporary increase in the income tax to offset the economic recession our country was facing in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. They were needed for one year, and unlike most “temporary taxes,” Governor Huckabee made sure that the legislature kept its promise to the people that it was eliminated after two years.

Tobacco Tax Hike (2003) – This is the tax from the video clip that the Club for Growth uses in their attack ad. In 2003 the state's chief financial officer projected a $62.3 million revenue shortfall that would result in cuts in state services, possible layoffs, tax increases or the possible repeal of late 1990s tax cuts. The Legislature was presented a series of options and chose to increase the tax on tobacco.

Taxes on Internet Access – Governor Huckabee has always been staunchly opposed to any tax on Internet access.

Beer Tax: Huckabee opposed letting the tax expire (2006) – The tax was used to fund programs for abused and neglected children. Without the tax there would be no funds for those programs.

Full Text of New York Time Article

"Huckabee’s Stature Rises, Mobilizing Tax Critics" by Leslie Wayne (12/2/07)

As Mike Huckabee rises in the Republican presidential polls, fiscal conservatives have been raising alarms about a series of tax increases he oversaw while governor of Arkansas — new taxes on gasoline, nursing home beds and even pet groomers.

The Club for Growth, a politically influential antitax group, has dubbed Mr. Huckabee Tax Hike Mike and poured money into anti-Huckabee advertisements that were broadcast in early nominating states, with more on the way. Mr. Huckabee “spends money like a drunken sailor,” according to the group’s news releases, and it has sprinkled YouTube and the airways with videos that mock him and his policies.

But the record offers a more complex and nuanced picture. While taxes did rise in the 10 years that Mr. Huckabee was governor, the portrayal of him as a wild-eyed spendthrift is hardly apt. For the most part, Mr. Huckabee’s tax initiatives had wide bipartisan support, with the small number of Republicans in the overwhelmingly Democratic state legislature voting for the tax increases and many maintaining that the state was better for them.

In addition, when Mr. Huckabee left office last January, he had turned a $200 million budget shortfall into an $844 million surplus. Still, as the attacks on his fiscal policies have stepped up, the Huckabee campaign has also cited examples of some 90 taxes that went down under his tenure.

But over all, on balance, tax increases outweighed the tax cuts by some $500 million, and many of the cuts that Mr. Huckabee heralds owe little to his efforts.

“He got bipartisan support on all the tax increases,” said State Senator Kim Hendren, a veteran Republican and member of the legislative budget committee. “Huckabee didn’t say ‘I just want to raise taxes to start programs.’ He has a liberal heart for young people, for the disabled and for improving Arkansas’ lot in education, and he is pretty good at working across party lines.”

Mr. Huckabee’s record on the tax front is emerging as a pivotal issue as he seeks to win the Jan. 3 Iowa caucuses and other early nominating states. In Iowa, he has built his following around Christian conservatives, but the tax issue could resonate in states like New Hampshire, which holds its primary five days later and where Mr. Huckabee has been devoting more time.

The attacks on him over taxes come as he faces criticism on other aspects of his record as governor, including fighting for tuition breaks for the children of illegal immigrants.

The biggest increase under Mr. Huckabee was mandated by the Arkansas Supreme Court, which in 2002 ruled that the state’s school financing procedure was unconstitutional and ordered a more equitable plan — which led to $400 million in new taxes.

Some other taxes came about directly because of Mr. Huckabee’s efforts. After becoming governor in 1996, he traveled the length of the Arkansas River within the state to win support for an additional one-eighth-cent sales tax to improve the state parks system.

Early in his tenure, he pushed through a three-cent-a-gallon gasoline tax increase and a four-cent increase on diesel fuel, along with a bond issue, to improve a road system that was considered one of the worst in the country.

And when the state lacked enough of the necessary matching money for federal Medicaid payments to its nursing homes, Mr. Huckabee and the legislature enacted a $5.25-a-day “bed tax” on nursing homes, which won the grudging approval of the state’s nursing home industry.

All of this has become fodder for the Club for Growth and other antitax groups. At the Republican YouTube debate on Wednesday, an advertisement shown by a rival candidate, Fred D. Thompson, directly attacked Mr. Huckabee’s tax policies.

“We’ve been making noise about Huckabee since Day 1 of his candidacy,” said Nachama Soloveichik, a spokeswoman for the Club for Growth, which analyzes the tax policies of Republican candidates. “There is a groundswell among conservatives that this cannot be our guy.”

Both Democratic and Republican politicians and political observers say the legislature had little choice but to raise taxes from 2002 to 2004 given the fiscal challenges facing Arkansas.

The biggest tax increases came in 2003 and 2004. A sagging economy had cut into revenues and the state faced a 2002 court order to equalize financing among school districts.

“We had our backs against the wall; we had no choice,” said State Senator Bobby Glover, a Democrat who has been in the legislature off and on since 1973. “Our only other choice was to take more from prisons and heath care and other agencies.”

In the end, the $400 million tax increase package was passed by an overwhelming majority, with Republican legislators taking the lead in pushing for it along with Democrats. The items included a sales tax increase of seven-eighths of a cent, the imposition of sales tax levies on several previously exempt services and some lesser taxes.

“Republicans were fighting for the tax increase,” said State Senator Denny Altes, the Republican minority leader of the State Senate who did not support the package. “There were few votes against it. Some of the most conservative people, both Democrats and Republicans, supported it. It passed by 90 percent.”

In general, Mr. Huckabee supported tax increases when he had a defined goal in mind, whether it was schools, roads or parks.

“He tended to raise taxes for specific government programs,” said Jay Barth, an associate political science professor at Hendrix College in Conway, Ark. “He does believe in a robust government as an active force in the lives of its citizens, especially in helping the little guy.”

The Club for Growth is circulating a video of Mr. Huckabee speaking to the legislature and going through a litany of all the taxes he could support, leaving the impression that there is no tax he would not embrace.

But the purpose of Mr. Huckabee’s address was specific: Arkansas was facing a multimillion-dollar budget shortfall and Mr. Huckabee was pleading for a tax increase to cover it — any tax, and listing all the possibilities.

The other big tax increase, which also received bipartisan support, was the one on gasoline to pay for road improvements.

“Our roads were in terrible condition,” said Dennis Milligan, chairman of the Arkansas Republican Party. “We knew that in order to attract jobs and companies we needed better roads. Huckabee made a wise choice and now we have companies locating here and wonderful roads. He did a lot to improve roads, and you can’t do it for free.”

In the face of criticism from fiscally conservative Republicans, Mr. Huckabee has been spending more time talking about the taxes he cut than the ones he raised. For instance, at the Republican debate last week, he said that he had cut 90 taxes and that the sales tax was only a penny higher under his stewardship.

Of the 90 tax cuts cited by Mr. Huckabee, one was large: an increase in the standard deduction for income taxes. But most were very small, with some reducing state tax revenues by as little as $15,000 to $20,000, according to an Arkansas Department of Finance and Administration study that was reported in The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette.

Still, the Huckabee campaign has set up a “Truth Squad” specifically intended to rebut the Club for Growth.

“Antitax radicals will never be convinced that tax monies can be legitimately spent on highways, bridges, schools and Medicare,” the campaign said in a response to the Club for Growth.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008; ads; clubforgrowth; huckabee; iowa
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To: muawiyah

Providing a justice system and a military (FedGov) or State Guard (the sovereign states) system are almost all that’s legitimate in a government.

Providing welfare, health care, nanny-isms of ANY sort... none of this belongs in a FREE society. Nor do things like public transportation or police roadblocks (sobriety checkpoints) or auto/property theft — oops, I mean CONFISCATION without court orders after due process. Yep, THAT’S what I mean...


61 posted on 12/29/2007 7:49:36 PM PST by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: wastedpotential
The Arkansas constitution, in a measure that should be lauded by all fiscal conservatives, requires that the state budget be balanced.

Yes, the Arkansas Constitution mandates a balanced budget... BUT... also allows for borrowing in the form of bonds...

In addition, since when is the only way to balance a budget that is short on funds to raise taxes? If my monthly paycheck falls short of meeting my personal budget, I don't go to my employer and demand additional pay. I cut back on my spending (unless I would prefer to go into debt, which I don't want to do).

Huckabee CHOSE to go the route of raising taxes instead of cutting the budget. In addition, while there, he radically expanded social spending. Exactly how is this in ANY way "conservative"?

And to further demonstrate - after the budget was back in line, and the state coffers were then overflowing with a surplus... did Huckabee offer to return the money to taxpayers? Of course not. It took a DEMOCRAT Governor who followed Huckabee to actually be willing to sign a partial cut to the grocery tax (not necessarily the most equitable return of taxpayer overpayment...).

62 posted on 12/29/2007 8:20:21 PM PST by TheBattman (LORD God, please help us to elect a Godly and patriotic man for President in 08, Amen.)
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To: kempo

And don’t forget that in Arkansas - you get the income tax AND sales taxes...


63 posted on 12/29/2007 8:22:03 PM PST by TheBattman (LORD God, please help us to elect a Godly and patriotic man for President in 08, Amen.)
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To: muawiyah

Where did you get “tax cuts” rhetoric from that post? He posted about cutting SPENDING.....


64 posted on 12/29/2007 8:23:24 PM PST by TheBattman (LORD God, please help us to elect a Godly and patriotic man for President in 08, Amen.)
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To: TheBattman

Hypothetical question: Which is more conservative:

(1) Getting roads and infrastructure projects paid for by the federal government through earmarks made to a 3000 page omnibus spending bill or

(2) Putting to vote a raise on gasoline taxes to pay for improvements?


65 posted on 12/29/2007 8:25:36 PM PST by wastedpotential (A Reagan Bush conservative from OH and ..... an unashamed Huckabee supporter)
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To: muawiyah
That's on your $28,500 taxable net income AFTER they give you deductions equal to those provided in the federal income tax system.

You are not from Arkansas, are you? You should check out the Arkansas income tax code... deductions equal to those provided in the federal income tax system? WRONG. Try again.

66 posted on 12/29/2007 8:26:06 PM PST by TheBattman (LORD God, please help us to elect a Godly and patriotic man for President in 08, Amen.)
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To: wastedpotential

Your not suppose to post this stuff here (/sarcasm)


67 posted on 12/29/2007 8:33:06 PM PST by 11th_VA (HUCKABEE - HUNTER 2008 !!!)
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To: TheBattman

And if you make 28K and are taxed on the income you still have to pay the tax on the food you feed your children and you are taxed on your gas to go to work to make that paltry sum. And, once you have worked yourself to half to death and need to go to a nursing home, your bed there will be taxed too.


68 posted on 12/29/2007 9:02:09 PM PST by keepitreal
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To: TheBattman

Found this interesting article about Huck’s spending:

Wednesday, February 28, 2007
FROM THE PUBLISHER >> State plane flies again: Say it ain’t so, Mike
The Leader was complaining in an editorial Saturday about former Gov. Huckabee wearing out that State Police plane after he hijacked it for his personal use, flying with family and friends to all the fun places, high above the great unwashed — that’s us, the taxpayers who’re now supposed to shell out $4 million for a new airplane because Gov. Beebe likes it, too.
Huckabee was so secretive about how much he used the plane, he had the State Police computer hard drive crushed before he left office. He didn’t want the public to know how much he fleeced us, the suckers who foot the bill for an extravagance this poor state cannot afford.

You have to wonder what else Huckabee was hiding when he ordered other hard drives destroyed. We’re also wondering why, after the Huckster logged hundreds of thousands of miles on Jet Arkansas, Gov. Beebe is now eager to replace the old plane with a new one, instead of repairing it at a fraction of the cost for use in emergencies by the State Police.

Well, Beebe likes his new job so much, he wants to keep all the perks that Huckabee had made uniquely his own — until now.
What was good enough for the Huckster suits Beebe just fine — a state jet at his beck and call, free food and servants and state troopers always at the ready.

Say it ain’t so, Mike.

But it’s true: The Beechcraft King Air 200 turbo-prop hasn’t been grounded yet — Beebe flew on it to a weekend governors’ conference in Washington, then hurried back to visit hurricane-ravaged Dumas. Using a state plane for a photo-op after a hurricane is all right with us, but not for national conferences and personal appearances, which became a habit with Huckabee.

At least Beebe will let us know when he’s flying on the state airplane. Huckabee was very secretive about the many, many times he bummed rides on the plane. No wonder Huckabee’s presidential campaign is in trouble: With a record like his, it’s hard to win supporters beyond Arkansas’ borders — or inside its borders, for that matter.

You probably don’t know that former Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack, a Democrat, has dropped out of the presidential race. You probably didn’t even know he was in the race. He was running for a couple of weeks, but he couldn’t raise any money, plus nobody knew how to pronounce his name, so he’s the first casualty of the 2008 campaign.

Huckabee could be the next candidate to drop out. He can’t raise any money either, even though his name is easier to pronounce, but his record in Arkansas is dogging him wherever he goes: He raised taxes, was soft on criminals and wasted taxpayers’ money abusing that State Police plane and padding his expense account.

Beebe looks like he’s enjoying his new job, but he should fly commercial airlines more often, or keep a precise log of where he’s flying on the state plane. Still, after just a few weeks in office, Beebe knows how to run this state — after all, he’s been preparing for this job for 25 years, when he first entered the Senate, which he pretty much ran with a younger colleague who’s now his chief of staff.
Unlike Beebe’s predecessor, who played absentee landlord for much of the time he was governor — too busy flying on that jet plane — Beebe knows how to schmooze with legislators: He’s put a school-funding package together in a couple of weeks and signed a bill cutting the grocery tax in half, saving Arkansans hundreds of millions of dollars, the largest tax cut in state history.

Huckabee, desperate to present himself as a fiscal conservative, wants to take credit for the tax cut, but he had his chance and blew it. Instead of working with the legislature when he was in office, Huckabee was off flying in that state plane promoting his diet books. Almost as if to rub it in, a Democratic governor and legislature have passed that huge tax cut bill — not a very good record for a Republican presidential candidate to run on.

Out on the hustings, Huckabee’s saying he was for the tax cut before he was against it, but if he knew what he knows now, he would have pushed it through. No wonder he’s running for president — but not for very long. Somebody send him a bill for all the time he flew on the state plane instead of taking commercial flights like the rest of us. At least Mike Beebe promises to reimburse the state when he makes private use of the plane. Southwest Airlines could take him to most places at a fraction of the cost.
posted by THE LEADER at 10:25 AM

http://www.arkansasleader.com/2007/02/from-publisher-state-plane-flies-again.html#6917923028446181986

Make sure you tax granny’s nursing home bed so that Huck could fly around for free.


69 posted on 12/29/2007 9:22:28 PM PST by keepitreal
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To: TheBattman
I was reading directly from the personal income tax pamphlets the Arkansas tax folks put on the net at the time.

It looked different with corporations, partnerships and sole proprietorships though.

Ever bother checking to see which form you are using to file? It's not beyond these guys to let you file at rates higher than are required 'jus' 'cause you did!

70 posted on 12/30/2007 5:37:15 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: TheBattman
He specifically mentioned "repeal of late 1990s tax cuts."

So there!

71 posted on 12/30/2007 5:38:32 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: keepitreal
You should just "shrink the state", then they wouldn't have to fly. Teddy Kennedy doesn't have to fly around Massachusetts and neither did Romney!

Why should Arkansas be any different.

I'd start with that long drive from Little Rock to Harrison ~ who ever heard of that sort of thing ~ highway goes for miles and miles and miles and all you can see is a "front" off to the right.

Totally useless territory all over the place.

Shed it!

72 posted on 12/30/2007 5:41:47 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: wastedpotential
But the record offers a more complex and nuanced picture. While taxes did rise in the 10 years that Mr. Huckabee was governor, the portrayal of him as a wild-eyed spendthrift is hardly apt. For the most part, Mr. Huckabee’s tax initiatives had wide bipartisan support, with the small number of Republicans in the overwhelmingly Democratic state legislature voting for the tax increases and many maintaining that the state was better for them.

Any time I see nuanced, the RED flag goes up. Taxes didn't just go up, they went from $6 to $16 billion {almost triple}.

The huckster is pro-tax, pro-illegal and said he wants to close gitmo. He is not my candidate.

73 posted on 12/30/2007 6:43:36 AM PST by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages - In Honor of Standing Wolf)
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To: muawiyah

I believe the issue was using the state plane for personal use. Hey why not? Kings live on the back of the peasants.


74 posted on 12/30/2007 8:19:57 AM PST by keepitreal
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To: USS Alaska
Let's clear some things up. Our county has just under a million people. We spend over $2 billion per annum on schools.

Arkansas has just under 3 million people. If they maintained the public schools to the level we do ours (Fairfax County VA which has, arguably, the best public school system in America), you'd spend about $6 billion per year.

If that equaled the taxes you raise, there'd be nothing whatsoever left for weights, measures, state police, dams, roads, public planning, state universities, public hospitals, public health workers, and so forth. The entirity of the rest of your state government could simply be dismissed.

Which raises in my mind your competency to assess whether or not the Huck was ripping off the state or simply working to improve your public infrastructure.

75 posted on 12/30/2007 9:01:51 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: keepitreal
No, the issue really was about whether or not the Governor of Arkansas should travel outside of Little Rock, and, if so, should the state provide him with a plane to do so.

There really aren't all that many places the Governor can fly using commercial airlines ~ Benson to Little Rock maybe? Possibly Fort Smif?

Get real. Visits to Mississippi county to inspect your multibillion dollar fancy bean crop would certainly be in order. That's one of the most important businesses in the state of Arkansas and it is deserving of the tender ministrations and presence of the Governor from time to time (and you know it).

Arkansas is not really one of those places that it's easy to drive around in. The distances are sufficiently great it takes a day to get anywhere interesting.

So, what you want ~ Governor trapped in Little Rock, or the Governor traveling to other parts of Arkansas ~ gonna' take a state plane to do that.

If you want New England state life, then you have to trim the state down to size. That's why I proposed getting rid of the excess territory. Then your governor can drive to all the meaningful spots, maybe even walk to some of them ~ couple of great grits and soulfood joints just off downtown you know. Wouldn't be such a bad life.

Imagine the Governor of Arkansas able to lead the same lifestyle as the Governor of Massachusetts ~ you wouldn't know him would you?

76 posted on 12/30/2007 9:08:40 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: wastedpotential

The obvious answer is choice (2) - put it to a vote. BUT.... I was not specifically posting about the highway improvement funding/taxes.

My post was in reference to the proclivity to tax and spend vs. cutting the spending to fit the available funds.


77 posted on 12/30/2007 10:27:07 AM PST by TheBattman (LORD God, please help us to elect a Godly and patriotic man for President in 08, Amen.)
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To: muawiyah

Arkansas does deductions differently from the Federal tax return. The state gives you tax “credits” against your tax bill instead of deductions from your taxable income.

Even the itemization works differently. I would be interested to see these “tax pamphlets” you are referring to.


78 posted on 12/30/2007 10:34:27 AM PST by TheBattman (LORD God, please help us to elect a Godly and patriotic man for President in 08, Amen.)
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To: muawiyah

Here is a 100% copy/paste of the post we are debating:

“Be damned the idea that a liberal need be placed in the position to cut spending to meet lawful budget obligations....

Oh wait, he’s a Republican.

I retract my statement.”

The other portion was his own copy/paste from earlier in the thread - not his words. He was responding to someone else’s words.


79 posted on 12/30/2007 10:36:26 AM PST by TheBattman (LORD God, please help us to elect a Godly and patriotic man for President in 08, Amen.)
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To: TheBattman
When you do a D&C you still manage to put the words in there. The fact they are there is an encouragement to others to respond to those words, or to your response to them, or to both, or to something else if the C&P and your comments are still off the mark, off color, or off the cliff into the surf.

In this case if the poster wanted to limit the discussion to "spending" and not "taxes" he could have done so but he didn't (not that I'm going to pay much attention to the delimeters one of the Huck's detrators seek to place on this discussion).

80 posted on 12/30/2007 10:42:19 AM PST by muawiyah
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