Posted on 01/12/2008 8:23:54 PM PST by MrArbitrage123
In my post from a couple of nights ago "Attack Christians but give Mormons a Free Pass" Freeper AmericanVictory brought up Governor Mike Huckabee and his concern about voting for him. Since that wasn't intended so much to be a post about Huckabee but more of a post about the gentle treatment of Romney and his controversial faith, I thought I would start a new thread in my response to AmericaVictory regarding Huckabee.
“ It makes me nervous that as a young man I was fooled by Jimmy Carter and wound up voting enthusiastically for one of the worst presidents in U.S. history, and perhaps its pettiest ex-president. My late mother, who had been raised as an Old School Baptist, was not fooled by him. It makes me doubly cautions about Huckabee and wanting to know a lot about his actual record and past positions. “ - AmericanVictory
No need to be nervous about it. This Jimmy Carter comparison is ridiculous and people who do their homework aside from reading those articles against Huckabee alone can see right through it.
Jimmy Carter is ardently pro-abortion, pro communist, pro-castro Jimmy Carter. Some desperate, juvenile minded people have successfully perpetuated that platitude but I think the differences between the two people are quite obvious and I am embarrassed that I am even dignifying that contention by acknowledging it. The Drudge linked video of Huckabee talking about taxes was taken out of context and the entire speech was not even aired.
Do yourself a favor and set aside the rhetoric of Rush Limbaugh and Laura Ingraham. Spend some time doing the research for yourself at Huckabee's website and watch video of Huckabee on sites like youtube answering the accusations directly. It is quite clear that Limbaugh, Ingraham & Coulter have not done their homework. As someone who has researched Huckabee extensively, I can tell by listening to them that they have never delved into Huckabee's side of the story. There are mitigating circumstances surrounding Huck's record and none are presented by these critics.
I have also done my homework on John McCain, legislatively going back to the odious Telecommunications Act of 1996 where he wanted to legislate price controls on the cable companies and prevent them from merging with the phone companies. As a Financial Advisor/Stock Broker with an interest in Telecommunications, Inc (TCI) and wanting to see them merge with then Bell Atlantic, that outraged me as did just about every piece of legislation McCain has promulgated since then. And I agree with Rush completely regarding McCain. Not only is he an economic liberal (just called the pharmaceutical companies “evil” last week), he completely ignored the outcries of his constituents regarding the amnesty issue and thumbed his nose at anyone who disagreed with him. On the issue of abortion, he has voted pro-life but doesn't seem able to articulate the reason for doing so very effectually and I have no confidence that he would be able to select quality justices to the federal courts much less fight for their confirmation in the event he should serendipitously manage to appoint a good one.
The one quality McCain does have is his POW and war hero status. For that I accolade and thank him; however, wisdom & leadership is not necessarily the concomitant of bravery. I was shocked when during the SC debate, McCain made the statement about how he wouldn't want to trade with some Arab faction, (might have been Al Qaeda) because “all they have are Berkas.” I certainly wasn't offended by the statement but it seemed to be an irresponsible and impetuous thing to let slip out for a Senator running for President because if he's supposed to be Mr. Foreign policy and Mr. Diplomacy, why would he make a statement mocking the clothing that so many women, including our allies in the middle east wear? I laughed about him singing the “bomb, bomb, bomb Iran” song, I'm fine with bombing Iran; the sooner the better but it seemed like something a complete political novice would do. Leave that for the talk radio shows.
Ironically, Rush is using “drive-by” tactics on Huckabee. I can't tell you that I agree with Huckabee on everything. I don't support more federal involvement in the education system and although I am somewhat of a musician, I don't believe it's the federal government's business to promote music ed or any other ed. But I am confident that he is the candidate in this race that most closely represents my values - who can actually win against the Democrats this time around. You have to delve more deeply into the issues and don't for a second base your decision on the empty rhetoric and false allegations of pundits who have been campaigning for other candidates like Romney & McCain. It scares Republicans who have bought into the slanted attacks when Huckabee talks in his “populist” fashion.
I understand WHY it scares some people especially when they have the skewed perception of the man after the onslaught of Romney ads and Barnes, Coulter, Ingraham & Hannity talking points day in and day out. But I believe the way Huckabee is talking is brilliant and having someone of his ability to communicate with the “blue collar” worker the way he does will be of paramount importance this November and the only chance we will have of winning the presidency as a party.
I believe that we are heading into something much deeper than a recession based upon what I have been seeing in the financial markets (as a long time financial professional). Let me tell you something. We have been hearing people dubbed as doom and gloomers for the past 25 years for warning about “the coming economic earthquake” due to extravagant lifestyles of American's and a GOVERNMENT living beyond our means. Yet for decades we have been able to cover up the pending crises with ersatz money thanks to the Federal Reserve and our own irresponsibility in living on credit.
From what I see, it cannot be covered up anymore and no matter how much more the Federal Reserve cuts rates, it is going to do nothing to fix the problem and may actually compound it. On top of that we have out of control oil prices, a policy of burning food as a fuel “alternative” causing further escalation in food prices, a drought in Georgia of biblical proportions and while most people have no idea, 2/3 of the honey bees have been mysteriously dieing off causing potentially devastating inflation in its own right. Oh, and the dollar has been in a tail spin for the past few years.
My point is that this election – as much as we don't like it – is going to be won by someone who appeals to the middle-class, “working American” (or out of work) who doesn't understand supply-side economics, Milton Friedman and will not come to understand it in the 60 second sound bites of an election campaign. If you think they are going to be enchanted by some pretty boy billionaire who likes to compare himself to Ronald Reagan, you better re-think that given the current environment in which we find ourselves.
The Republicans who are afraid of him and bought into the Romney/Drudge smear campaign hear him saying things about how “people want a President who reminds them of the guy they work with more than the guy who laid him off” and hear him talk about helping the”little guy” - and they get nervous. Republicans are notoriously horrible strategists. We are masters of losing. I pity the people in this party who don't see what is coming and consider WHO are voting. Middle income families and single mothers are the majority and to not recognize their plight right now is to beg for defeat.
So, they want to crucify Huckabee for recognizing that and relating to them. A Democrat saying that they are going to fight for the “little guy” and a Republican saying he's going to fight for the little guy sound very similar but in reality are two very different things. They may both want to help the little guy (if we take them at face value) but they have two very different methodology in accomplishing that goal. Is the desire to help the working families by implementing a fair tax system and wanting to dismantle the IRS the same as the Clinton plan of helping the “little guy” via Universal Health care, Universal Pre-K and $5,000 baby-bonds in every pot?
Helping the blue-collar worker or single-mother doesn't have to be at the expense of someone else. I believe that is what Huckabee sees and a fair tax plan would help to accomplish a great deal of good for the rich AND the poor. After seeing the pundits like Limbaugh, Ingraham, Coulter, Barnes, Cameron & Wallace jump on the talking points – verbatim, it became very clear that these people made up their minds BEFORE doing their due diligence. They have no idea what kind of setting in which Republicans will find themselves campaigning come November. These voters are going to be hurting, fearful for their financial security and very emotional. It takes a majority to win an election (or something close to that depending on third party candidates). The only way we are going to win is with a candidate who can genuinely relate to them where they are and they are NOT – in their weekend homes in the Hampton's
What Kool-Aid?
Kool-Aid about his stance favoring in state tuition for children of illegal immigrants?
Kool-Aid about his stance favoring a national law banning smoking in public places? BTW, I haven't smoked in over 15 years.
Kool-Aid about his raising taxes as Governor of about $500 million?
Kool-Aid about his ethical lapses as Governor?
What am I missing here?
To see the unbridled joy on Mara Liasson's face on Fox this morning of the prospect of a McCain-Huckabee showdown on the road to Minneapolis...it spoke volumes.
You may call it whack-a-mole, but no Huckabee supporter has offered substantive evidence to shoot down my objections to Governor Huckabee's candidacy.
“Guy reminds me of a male Tammy Fay Baker”
LOL. Thank You!!!
I’ve been trying to get a mental picture of what I sense about him, and you just clarified it for me.
_____________________________________
Thanks, my wife thought it was a pretty apt comparison too.
Muck Huckster – the walking definition of a phony –baloney, plastic- banana, good-time rock and roller.
Thanks for the recommendation, but I found a good alternative. After the success of a "cleansing" program a few months back, I've resolved to do it once a year.
Sigh...if there were only a similar way to rid the GOP of RINOs.
We know the Democrats would view such a statement about them as a compliment. These things do not go with conservative beliefs.
I trust you are telling the truth, but I need more than that to tell others.
Any well-documented evidence is welcome, and I will try to get it into more hands.
The problem is that most criticism of Huckabee has been directed at things that are not the highest priority of Evangelicals (both liberal and conservative). Most Evangelical voters care about abortion, freedom of religion and protecting the family. They think Huckabee will stand firm on these issues the way Bush has in general.
To convince many of these to look at another candidate, Huckabee will need to be scrutinized for things like the accusation of seeking homosexual support and burdening home schoolers with unreasonable legislation (which he appears to have done in both cases).
Many Evangelicals will agree with him on lax immigration and budget spending (if they are liberal), while conservative Evangelicals will tolerate these if their priority issues are addressed.
Fred Thompson is not as strong on any of these issues as Huckabee even though he is more of a true all-around conservative and would probably support a Republican Congress on any family / life legislation.
To convince Evangelicals to drop Huckabee now it will be necessary to expose where Huckabee does not truly share their values. This will not help at all in the general if Huckabee makes it to the nomination.
Now is the time to convince Evangelicals they can have better representation within the Republican party.
My opinion is that Fred can do as good, but not everyone will agree.
If Fred made some firm commitments and persuaded Hunter to drop out and support his campaign, I think that would be a very strong ticket (assuming Hunter is the VP).
Huckabee’s base is not conservatives in general. The more conservative a voter is, the more they favor Hunter. Fred is probably the next best choice.
Other than Hunter, Thompson, and Huckabee, many Evangelicals will not vote for the Republican nominee. Some will probably support Romney as the lesser of two evils.
If Guiliani or McCain win the nomination, a conservative third-party candidate might have a shot.
I’m not ready to rule out Hunter. If Huckabee can come out of nowhere and get near the top, so can Hunter.
He is the best and most conservative candidate. He did get one vote so far in the primaries. There are bigger voting blocks that are more conservative.
The problem is not that Hunter is not viable but that too many conservatives like yourself and Rush are allowing the MSM dictate who can and cannot be the Republican nominee, i.e. viable. (Either that or some do not really want an across-the-board conservative.)
The MSM is not afraid of Guilliani or McCain because they are liberal. The liberal media can live with either being the President.
They are not afraid of Huckabee because they are sure they can defeat him easily. (They might be surprised that he could win and end up with the things that the liberals hate about Bush to the nth degree.)
If you want a conservative in the White House, you better find a way to show Evangelicals that Huckabee is not the best possible choice for the issues Evangelicals care about across the board.
Hunter and Thompson both need Huckabee's supporters. Neither will take many supporters away from the other candidates because neither are what those supporters are looking for, i.e. the perception of being fiscally conservative but socially liberal.
The best shot at this is to show Huckabee compromises in areas that most Evangelicals care about (not taxes and limited government). Evangelicals need to be persuaded to abandon support for Huckabee and find a better candidate.
In my book, Hunter is first and Thompson is a distant second.
Hunter would satisfy a LOT of factions in the GOP I am convinced.
***So am I.
Rush is right about Huck the Cluck. You are wrong! Huck is another Carter clone, dressed in a Pubbie suit. His take on high taxes and illegals make him anything but a conservative. Fred’s the only one left that we can claim is a conservative.
I heard on C-Span today that Duncan Hunter will be appearing with Mitt Romney tomorrow at a Michigan rally of some sort. Is Duncan Hunter throwing in with Mitt Romney? I wonder what’s going on here. Unless they were inferring both were appearing at the same event to speak, which is possible, but it sounded like they were appearing together. I’m real curious about this. Well, guess I’ll find out tomorrow.
It isn’t Limbaugh, Romney, Thompson, Barnes, Coulter, Ingraham & Hannity that are turning me against Huckabee. It’s the Huckabee and his disciples of deceit that are turning me against Huckabee.
Bud Light presents:
...(Real men of genius)
Today we salute you, Mr. Mike Huckabee paid FR campaign shill!
...(Mr. Mike Huckabee paid FR campaign shill)
What does a liberal Republican do when he is afraid to face grass roots conservatives himself? He pays his coffee and errand boy minimum wage to do it for him
...(skim milk with three sweet and lows)
Sitting in a cubicle at campaign headquarters you search Conservative websites like the NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times, Salon, CNN and Daily Kos looking for favorable articles about the Huckster to post on FR
...(oooh, here's one from DU!)
Armed with nothing but talking points from Hucks' website, you attempt to convince conservatives that your candidate is not a Christian socialist or a pro-life Democrat
...(Jesus would want amnesty for illegals)
When FReepers say Huck is a fiscal liberal, algore loving environmental wacko, open border amnesty pusher, Jimmy Carter foreign policy appeaser, nanny state smoker banner you provide the brilliant original response...a link to his campaign website
...(copy, paste, copy, paste)
Conservatives? We don't need no stinkin' Conservatives!
...(Highly overrated)
All we need is a leftist who is pro-life, has an R next to his name, and talks about Jesus.
...(Praise the Lord!)
So crack open an ice cold Bud Light, oh Karl Rove of the blogosphere, because when a FReeper runs for office, we'll be calling you...
...(Mr. Mike Huckabee paid FR campaign shill)
Bud Light beer. Anheuser-Busch, St. Louis, Missouri.
Amazing! Did you write that all by yourself? You really are a “real man of genius”. Very impressive.
I haven’t heard of that detail. It probably doesn’t mean much.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.