[Man50D]

Fair Tax ping!

[Mark was here]

"crackpot scheme,"

Is it inclusive of the pot?

[Mojave]

The Fair Tax is now the equivalent of the VAT? The Fair Tax cult shifts like the wind.

[Normal4me]

Thanks for the ping. You must realize by now that you, me, or proponents of the fair tax are NEVER going to convert the anti-free tax people here at FR don't you?

Lets just get the talking points out in front here.

It's 30% not 23%!
I already paid taxes on my savings!
It will just cause a black market!
The Prebate is just stupid! (I agree with this one).
The IRS will never go away!

Please feel free to add your own. ;-)

[randog]

It would be a 30 percent sales tax on retail purchases. Since 30 cents is 23 percent of $1.30 (the amount you would pay on a $1 item), a 30 percent FairTax would cost you about 23 percent of your consumption.

This is the main problem with the Fair Tax--the ability to explain it and sell it to the Average Joe. The Fair Tax "user interface" is a debacle. Boortz et.al. should have tested their idea on focus groups and refined it to make is easier to understand. As it is, they're now flailing about trying to thwart an onslaught of criticism that just creates a cloud of confusion in an already confusing concept.

[Seruzawa]

I just love the professional tax people who show up here to defend the indefensible. They are parasites and would have to get real jobs if the income tax went away.

[jwparkerjr]

The biggest problem to affecting any change in the way government supports itself is simply inertia. Nothing in government changes without considerable energy to overcome it’s current trajectory, let alone getting it going in the new direction or getting it up to speed on the new trajectory.

When you add to the trajectory the energy that comes from the current tax system being an excellent source of power for elected officials, plus the social engineering that it makes possible, it’s going to take an awful lot of energy to turn this boat around and set it on a new course.

There’s plenty of the needed energy available when you consider the number of people who want change, but unless that energy gets channeled it’s just going to waste.

And that waste of lots of energy by lots of people is nothing more than part of the plan to make certain the status quo is safe.

Look at President Reagan to see how difficult the task is going to be to bring about change, any change, in government at this point in our history. No one has gone to Washington in my lifetime with a more earnest desire to reign in the federal government than The Gipper. One of his campaign assurances was that he would oversee the job of getting a handle on the size and grasp of the federal government. Despite his best efforts government was bigger when he left office than when he entered.

A large part of the problem is that the average person is so busy trying to earn a living and take care of his or her family that they are completely unaware of the extent to which government has grown and the grasp it has on every level of our lives. Not just taxes, which have finally gotten high enough that they are impossible to ignore any more, but the thousands of little things that government has assumed responsibility for over the years, one small step at a time.

We are probably at the point where the only thing that’s going to bring about significant change is when the whole system collapses under its own weight. And that time might not be that far away. The surest way to have a system suffer a catastrophic failure is to run it too long at too near its capacity. It’s like tripping, if you walking along slowly you might be able to regain your balance and avoid a bad fall, but if you’re running as fast as you can then a fall is a sure thing.

[pepperdog]

Regardless of the system used 30% is an abomination! Just think THIRTY PERCENT! Almost one third of every dollar in your pocket. And then you still have the city, county and state taxes. Ugh!

[seemoAR]

One of the reasons the Income Tax has been used is the average person never sees all the money they earn. Uncle takes his large slice before they ever see it. We tend to forget how much has been stolen.

I believe there will be major trouble when the average person has to pay 30% tax on every purchase.

I would be a lot happier if I could choose where my tax money would be spent. I know of a lot of government spending that would never see a red cent from me.

[Proud2BeRight]

Fair Tax - a perfect example of the use of the word oxymoron.

Paying an additional 30% tax on savings that I already paid taxes on really has me excited about this fantasy.

[raybbr]

...the value-added tax, which is the most successful tax in the world.

Successful? What makes a tax successful?

[oiler]

“The Great One” has questioned the constitutionality of the FairTax.

I therefore respectfully disagree and suggest a FlatTax for your consideration.

[maine-iac7]

"In 2007, that amount would have been based upon $10,210 spending per adult and $3,480 spending per child"

Ummm - don't forget the BIG "pay increase" in the paycheck - every cent now being taken out for all the different taxes would be in the pay check - you get the GROSS - every penny you earn. Look at your paychecks and add THAT up!

Then you have the control over most of the sales taxes you pay by your own choices of what you buy. YOU decide how much of your money will go on taxes - it won't be stolen from you.

For example: my closet is full of top-brand clothing and shoes. I have 3 London Fog coats, a full length wool-Alpaca coat (new retail $600.) jackets by WoolRich, LL Bean etc - which I spent from $2.50 to $4.50 for. One of the London Fogs I went whole hog for, paying $8.99 The $600 dollar wool/Alpaca coat cost me $5.00. Some of these coats still had the original store tags - and I defy anyone to be able to tell any of them weren't brand new off the shelf.

Same with my shoes - nothing but leather and top name brands - average $65 dollar shoes for 95 cents.

And there would be NO National sales tax on any of the above.

So is someone feels they are too good to buy second hand, they can choose to pay the hundreds of extra dollars for new stuff AND the sales tax.

Bottom line: the bulk of taxes a person pays, under the FAIR TAX, is up to US, not the gov't. Buy a used car - no tax...etc.

But for the basic necessity level - the prebate pays for the taxes. The GROSS in the paychecks is gravy and the savings people can pocket by their purchase choices is more gravy.

The desert is: NO APRIL 15th dread. NO control from Washington. (That's the main reason for the pols not wanting to loose the IRS. They loose the KGB control/threat over "The Little People" =

[e_castillo]

Not to be picky but...

30 percent of 1 dollar is 33 cents... Nothing is fact until it’s a written law.

[LibertyRocks]

Hmmm... the more I hear about the “fair tax” the less I like it frankly. How much more would it cost to implement the program — i.e. sending out the cards, figuring out who gets what every month, etc... etc... We all know the problems the gov’t has with doling out social security and other checks on time, so I have serious doubt in it’s ability to fairly administer these funds. The cost to retailers would undoubtedly inflate the prices on all items bought as well... You have to remember that this will also be a tax on top of the sales taxes we already pay in our own communities... So technically in some areas the sales tax would amount to almost 40% of the purchase price... Not fair at all if you ask me...

[Amendment10]

Regardless of the tax plan, everybody needs to be aware that if the federal government wasn't spending our tax dollars on constitutionally unauthorized projects then our federal taxes would be lower anyway. This post (<-click link) attempts to explain how FDR's constitutionally unauthorized New Deal programs like Social Security fostered many other constitutionally illegal federal spending programs that taxpayers are paying for today.

Anybody who feels inclined to comment about the above referenced post, please do so in this thread.

As I have stated elsewhere, the people need to wise up to the very serious problem of widespread federal government corruption, particularly where 10th A.-ignoring federal spending is concerned. The people need to quit sitting on their hands and petition lawmakers, judges and justices who are not upholding their oaths to defend the Constitution, demanding that they resign from their jobs.

[normy]

What about my 8.25 local sales tax and my 40 cent per booth tolls that pay for roads in Texas?

[life more important]

Old Europe American false conservatism at work, in the "establishment" -- the conservatism of the status quo.

[Antoninus]

I’d take this over the income tax any day of the week.