Posted on 02/08/2008 7:25:41 PM PST by 49th
"Tom" Wright is one of the most formidable figures in the world of Christian thought. As Bishop of Durham, he is the fourth most senior cleric in the Church of England and a major player in the strife-riven global Anglican Communion; as a much-read theologian and Biblical scholar he has taught at Cambridge and is a hero to conservative Christians worldwide for his 2003 book The Resurrection of the Son of God, which argued forcefully for a literal interpretation of that event.
TIME: At one point you call the common view of heaven a "distortion and serious diminution of Christian hope."
Wright: It really is. I've often heard people say, "I'm going to heaven soon, and I won't need this stupid body there, thank goodness.' That's a very damaging distortion, all the more so for being unintentional. [...] At no point do the resurrection narratives in the four Gospels say, "Jesus has been raised, therefore we are all going to heaven." It says that Christ is coming here, to join together the heavens and the Earth in an act of new creation. [...] There is Luke 23, where Jesus says to the good thief on the cross, "Today you will be with me in Paradise." But in Luke, we know first of all that Christ himself will not be resurrected for three days, so "paradise" cannot be a resurrection. It has to be an intermediate state. [...] Yes, you might get disappointment in the case where somebody has recently gone through the death of somebody they love and they are wanting simply to be with them. And I'd say that's understandable. But the end of Revelation describes a marvelous human participation in God's plan.
(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...
How can good create evil?
A light does not create darkness. But its presence enables us to tell the difference.
Ask Isaiah.
A light does not create darkness. But its presence enables us to tell the difference.
I see the presence of both light and darkness. I live in the world and on the earth. I understand God created all of these. Sorry that doesn't fit your world view.
I think you take the scripture out of context. Isaiah was talking about Israel choosing wrong, and thet God brought blessing or devastation, depening on Israel’s choice.
Many translations choose another word for “evil.”
How can good create evil.
I don't think so. Be that as it may I'm not going to rely on hyper-literalist interpretations of writings to make my case. I just threw that out there for grins.
Many translations choose another word for “evil.”
I'm happy for them.
How can good create evil.
I don't know. I'm not God. Apparently you are.
I suggest to you that God is rational and order. That he crafted the world to testify of him. And tht just as in this world light foes not create darkness, and pure does not create impurities, that God does not create evil in the context of that which is against God.
Were God to do so, he would cease to be God as the creation of evil is the opposite of good works.
And I say to you who are you to tell him what he can or cannot create?Light and darkness, good and evil were created by him in any order he so chooses.
Were God to do so, he would cease to be God as the creation of evil is the opposite of good works.
Maybe God should read your writings so that he can have a better idea of how you want him to operate.
Uhh...we could be floating around on little clouds holding harps ...and drinking beer!
;-)
Sounds like you know better than I the context in which Isaiah is speaking.
Carry on.
And cooking BBQ (dont forget).
sounds like you're God. Carry on with that.
Read the beginning of ch.5: “For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens”. Just like when Jesus talked about “destroying this temple” to refer to His death, Paul is talking about our death here. So, when we are absent from the body should be taken as “when our soul departes the body at the time of death”.
I think that you read 2 Cor. 5 correctly in that regard. I do not agree, however, that any disembodied spirit is with the Lord.
Satan lacks a body, and he certainly does not dwell with the Lord. The message of 2 Cor. 5 to me is Paul assuring the saints that what man does to the persecuted in this life means little, as we will have eternal bodies with the Lord.
Further, what if the resurrection? That is a spirit and a body together. Are resurrected persons prohibited from entering the presence of the Lord?
Oh, I didn't forget. For it matters not what recipe one has, HE makes the best BBQ!
And it shall rain down and nourish the faithful.
Betcha didn't know that the manna in the OT was actually ribs & brisquits ;-)
What about the resurrection? Paul covered it nicely in 1 Thessalonians 16-17: " For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then, we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord".
I don't know what your beliefs are about the Rupture, but I hope you will agree with me that there will be a resurrection, and that after that, we will be with the Lord.
I believe all will be resurrected - good and evil.
I missed where they Talked about different levels of heaven.. sorry If The Catholic Church is Larger in England than the Church of England maybe that will give you a Clue....
Both. The “first fruits of the harvest,” the “saints,” are depicted in Revelation as offering up as incense to God the prayers of those down below on Earth, and giving constant praise in Heaven. Then a new Heaven and a new Earth are created, as, very contrary to this apostate bishop, Earth is completely destroyed and the rest of humanity (the heretofore unsaved) are judged.
While it’s true that Luther did not believe this, one would also be remiss to omit that Luther considered Revelations to be a diabolical forgery.
Where is the rest of humanity prior to judgment? Perhaps some are “sleeping” of sorts. But faithful Christians are in Heaven.
On what basis do you declare this bishop to be apostate?
* he says...
* but scripture says...
He says Christians don’t go to Heaven when they die. The bible portrays Heaven as filed with a multitude of first-fruits singing heavenly praises and offering up the prayers of the faithful as incense before the throne of God.
Now, I wouldn’t call him apostate merely for advocating the heretic view of “soul sleep” (although the most famous believer in soul sleep regarded the Book of Revelations as a diabolical forgery). But then follow where he goes with it: He warns we have to fight global warming because we will have to renew the Earth at the end of time; we can’t wait for an all-powerful Christ to take care of the job for us. And he suggests we have to keep fit, because we will be stuck with our old bodies after the Resurrection.
Cosnider the implications of that. We don’t really get a brand new Earth, we just get a re-furbished Earth. And St. Agnes will be mawled and have her head flapping backward, dangling by a few sinews from her neck? St. Stephen will have his skin burnt to a crisp? And I guess the Christians at Nagasaki are gone for good?
I don’t see a problem with God using the Son and man to establish what was prophesied.
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