Posted on 02/09/2008 9:46:43 PM PST by ChocChipCookie
My sister-in-law and brother-in-law discovered that a neighbor has been tapping into their unsecured wireless internet connection. They've discovered 8-10 folders of photos accessible through their network that do not belong to them. (My BIL discovered this a few days ago when he wasn't able to get an internet connection and went searching for his wireless connection.) Some are general family photos of camping trips, their home, etc., but there are numerous photos that can only be described as all-male kiddie porn. Tonight my husband took steps to delete access to the folders that had been mapped to their computer and secure their network.
My SIL and BIL recognized the people in the non-porn photos as neighbors who live across the street, but they have not yet contacted the police. Because my elderly mother-in-law and an elderly aunt (both in their 70's) live with them and are home alone during the day, they are nervous about their safety should these scumbag neighbors discover who turned them in. I don't believe they know these neighbors by name or have even spoken to them.
Can any Freepers suggest the best course of action here? My in-laws had named their wireless network with their last name, so it's very possible that these neighbors know whose network they have been using. Now that access to the photos has been deleted, can the police still pursue this? Needless to say, my first instinct is to call the police myself, but it's not my family in the situation.
Ooops! I was sure I had posted this as a vanity.
Ok. I have a problem with this. “Tapping into” a wireless network does not give one the ability to put pornography on someone elses computer on that network. You either have been accessing pornography or you have not been; it is your computer, the wireless is simply access to the internet.
Call cops and quit using that PC. Maybe back up everything to protect yourself. Forensic IT types can unravel what was happening.
I use the highest encryption level allowed and the longest wireless password too, all 18 characters. I also turn off broadcast of SSID.
Not your brother or sister?
Not your best day.
I was thinking the same thing. The cops will be asking the brother-in-law some very pointed questions about those photographs.
Not entirely true, HD1200. They could have opened a folder for sharing on their unsecure wireless home network with full permissions. Any idiot could then drop files on their system (in that folder - including creating new folders in the shared folder).
Time to enable WEP security.
But I’d think twice about deleting everything before calling the police. If the camping trip photos ID the neighbor, that may be evidence that links him to the kiddie porn.
If you have shared folders, another computer could place files and folders in your shared folders depending on how you have them shared.
Could be a spouse’s sister and brother.
How about burning the files to a CD-ROM and mailing it annonymously to the cops with the address of the perps?
I’m wondering if the files are on your pc, or if the people across the street have a folder on their PC that they are sharing.
It’s my husband’s sister and her husband. Would that not qualify them as my SIL and BIL?
I think you need to inform the police. Child pornography is a very serious offense, and if not informed ahead of time, they can track where and by whom the files were accessed, including and especially back to you, since you made modifications (deletion of files).
It will be a big, lengthy mess to get out of, if the cops trace you, before you tell them.
If you have a shared folder, and an unsecured WiFi connection, anyone on the network can access your shared folder, and you, theirs.
How about talking with legal counsel before doing anything?
I sure as hell would. Certainly before calling the police.
Your sister-in-law and brother-in-law live across the street from Scott Ritter?
It seems they have already deleted the files. That being the case, they’ll have to get some kind of recovery software.
http://www.snapfiles.com in the freeware section. They have many file recovery tools.
I had hoped my description of the situation would be accurate, but I am not up on all the computer lingo. My husband says the neighbors probably enabled file sharing and aren’t savvy enough to know that anyone hooked up to that network can view their files.
Every once in a while my laptop will jump from our secured wireless network to a neighbors’ linksys unsecured network. I only notice it because my internet connection will suddenly slow way down. Perhaps that is what happened here, who knows.
Yeah, you can’t put stuff on someone else’s computer. But, I believe it would show the brother-in-law’s IP address visiting the site if the photos were downloaded from the net.
I’m not sure I’d call the police first- a lawyer might be a better choice. Might cost some money, might save a lot of pain. I do suggest calling cops within the lawyer’s instructions.
At first my BIL and SIL thought the photos were on their computer, but they weren’t. They were on the neighbor’s computer but they were “shared”.
And chances are very good that law enforcement has already seen this thread.
I wish we had thought about the CD-ROM. Good idea. Probably the only way to do that at this point is to unsecure the network and wait.
deleted pictures are still in your Recycle Bin....
ONLY if you brother-in-law is innocent, call the police.
But he better be absolutely sure he is innocent because a police computer forensic expert will be able to prove that it was done on your brothers computer if that is what actually happened.
That was stupid - it sounds like your husband destroyed evidence.
At a minimum, if it really was someone external logging onto the computer over a wireless connection, then screwing around with that connection would alert them to the fact that they had been found out, and they'd never logon again [ergo the police would never be able to catch them red-handed].
But I agree - this is highly unusual. Much more likely that it wasn't anyone external.
So even if he can get off the hook this time, I would NEVER allow your children to be alone with your BIL.
NEVER.
That means until they're 18 and gone off to college.
First, if your BIL/SIL have a computer with an unsecured wireless network, it’s totally possible their computer is totally shared with any other computer who logs on to the network. At our office, some computers have a variety of folders which can be accessed, added to and deleted from, by other computers on the network.
It’s possible too, from what you’ve said, that your BIL has found a shortcut on his computer to the other computer (though why that should occur is strange). If your BIL’s computer is/was wholly “open” to another computer in the network, then it’s possible his neighbor has placed the photos on your BIL’s computer in order to avoid having them on his own computer.
Which means ...
See a good defense attorney FIRST. The few hundred bucks you spend is chicken feed compared to what your BIL will face if he’s fingered as the original acquirer of the porn.
Only after your BIL has gotten a good defense attorney should he and that attorney make a visit to the local DA. It’s entirely possible that they’ll want to monitor the situation to validate your BIL’s account of the situation.
Well Jesus Christ - why didn't they call the cops immediately?!?
Well, it’s your internet connection, so if authorities find the neighbor’s shared porn via the Internet, it will appear to be at your home...so, you need to get some knowledgeable tech to your home to secure your wireless — turn off SSID so people won’t be able to “see” your network unless you explicitly tell them about it. The wireless should use WPA encryption, NOT WEP as was suggested above; WEP is not fully secure. After you’ve become responsible owners of your network, do whatever a lawyer encourages you to do.
I just heard on the news today of a fellow in Las Vegas who found kiddie porn, turned it over to the police, who were then able to find the fellow in the video or photos with the little kid. The person who originally turned in the porn was also prosecuted, if I understood the story correctly. I’ll look for the story.
What is SSID?
Obviously you can’t do anything but delete it and secure the computer.
Look at the people here. You want to report a crime but half the crowd is ready to accuse your BIL as their prime suspect. Chances are the police will be even less forgiving then the potential jury.
Its a shame.
It is for exactly this reason that whenever my friends ask about why they should bother encrypting their wireless network, I recommend securing their wireless network at least enough to keep the casual interloper out.
The scenario I always paint is that described in this situation. Someone wants to access questionable material but not be traceable to them, so they tap into your unsecured network and access the material using your internet connection.
Now if the police trace the connection as part an investigation of the provider of the questionable material, guess whose door they’ll be knocking on.... Yours!
I tell my friends to at least do the following:
o Change the default SSID
o Don’t broadcast your SSID
o Use some form of encryption
o Change the default password for your router’s admin user
o If you don’t have guests that regularly want to use your wireless, then use MAC address filtering to allow only your computers on the wireless network.
These steps will not keep a committed hacker out, but they will keep the casual interloper from finding and accessing your network.
TM
Talk to a good lawyer ASAP. He/she hopefully will have connections with the detectives and will navigate you through this potential nightmare. Good luck.
IMHO it could turn out to be a real minefield. The garbage is on your computer, after all, and someone could make a case that it's in your possession and therefore that you are violating the law, regardless of the source. How do you prove the negative - that you or someone in your family didn't put it there? If you cut off the neighbors' access via the wireless, then not only do you risk tipping them off that they've been discovered, but the garbage is still on your computer (if indeed that's really where it is physically located).
Then again, IANAL, but if you erase it, maybe you have just caused obstruction of justice, or maybe you've even acted as an accomplice of the real perp (and you'd better be sure that you really erase it - copies of stuff can hide in places where you don't expect it to hide but where experienced forensic detectives can find it - and any erasing had better be a secure erase with multiple overwrites of random data, otherwise the garbage can be recovered by an expert or even by a not-so-expert user - there are companies that make secure erasing software that you can download and try out for free).
Do you happen to know a good lawyer who is friendly with the local police or the Feds?
Delete it all, secure your network, and privately find who is doing it if possible. I have to concure with other posters that it is possible you will be blamed.
You bet they can. If the pictures have been uploaded any where and distributed, that can create even more legal problems. These images leave "footprints" on the IP servers from the IP providers. If the images were downloaded from or uploaded to anyone that is under surveillance, then it will lead to your family. If the images are downloaded from or uploaded to someone that gets arrested, it will point to your family.
You said this was a "dilemma", it really isnt. You know what the right thing to do is. You need to get with your family and let them know it is for their own legal protection.
It’s fairly easy to view someone’s shared files if they are poaching your unsecured connection.
Don’t you think you are overreacting just a tad?
You are right. If it were my computer I would be tempted to destroy the hard drive, bury it, get a new comp and make sure I had a secure connection with it.
Cheaper than hiring a lawyer to defend yourself against something you didn't do.
Follow this ADVICE!
Often, police don't care who they take down as long as they can make a conviction = and they may decide you're the easiest target = after all, it's on your computer.
And the police can lie like hell to you, pretend to be on your side, ANYthing, until they have actually charged a person - they can and do lie.
If you have legal counsel going in, they're going to handle it much different.
But, as someone else said, do it before they discover it = or things could get messy real fast - for you.
Get legal counsel - and a computer expert ? that could tract down how it's being done - that would go a long way to keep the police from first looking at you.
GET COUNSEL NOW
...a computer with an unsecured wireless network
what is this and how does one know this is happening to their own computer where does one check for this?
Dont fool around with this. The exploitation of children is one of the most damaging things that in our society. The scars left never completely heal.
I know that by turning them you are only treating a symptom and not the cause, but by all means CALL THE POLICE NOW.
And dont delete the folders!! That is evidence.
The first thing I’d do is unplug the router and hard wire my computer to the modem. The second thing I’d do is try to round up a few thousand dollars and call a local criminal defense attorney.
My husband was on their computer tonight and said that the photos ARE NOT ON THEIR COMPUTER. My BIL discovered that another user was on their wireless network, dug around to figure out what was going on and found these folders. The folders and their contents ARE STILL ON THE HARD DRIVE OF THE NEIGHBOR’S COMPUTER.
This was just discovered yesterday evening. My husband used WPA encryption to secure their network so this doesn’t happen again. He DID NOT delete the files themselves, just disabled any access these neighbors have to my BIL’s network.
Call the police now - otherwise you become party to a cover-up and subsequently can be considered part of the crime. It would be imperative for your BIL to call with you as well, otherwise he would be considered suspect.
Inform the police of the hack/intrusion and be prepared to hire your own forensic computer specialists to protect yourselves as well, and to lend validity to your statement that the computers were hacked...
I offer prayers for you and your family in this difficult situation.
Your BIL and SIL need to call a lawyer immediately, and then contact the police while they’re being advised by said lawyer. Yeah, it sucks that their crooked/perverted neighbor is causing them to have to pay a lawyer, but you definitely don’t want to jump into this mess without being properly represented. You also don’t want to ignore the issue because if some investigator was tracing those photos and they track it down to the IP address of your BIL’s network, he could find himself in a world of hurt. You want to contact the police before they contact you. Having the lawyer present is to make sure you don’t say or do anything dumb that would get you involved any more than you have to be.
BTW, you will be doing a good thing. The police can figure out exactly what was sent from whom to whom, and hopefully put away not only the freaks who are downloading the porn but maybe even track down the freaks who are making it.
BIL should take out his hard drive, smash it into a million pieces, buy a new hard drive and start all over. He needs to completely secure his network so his neighbors can’t access it. And don’t look at a neighbor’s files even if they show up on his computer by mistake. That’s being nosy and can cause problems.
SSID is the public name of a wireless network, for example the SSID of a new Linksys router is “Linksys” unless the user changes it to something else. When you browse the available wireless connections close enough for you to detect and connect to, you are looking at each routers SSID.
If it was just a mapped drive then there is no need to destroy BIL’s hard drive.
It’s a ‘beacon’ sent out at regular intervals by typically-configured wireless access points and routers - it is used to make it easier for anybody nearby to discover the existence of the wireless network and connect to it. Often it’s set by the wireless manufacturer to something like “LINKSYS” or “Netgear” or the like, which is a tipoff to hackers who may want to engage in some mischief with your network and PCs. The typical wireless unit has an administrative user interface that you can use to change the SSID to something nonstandard (as the OP has done) or to turn it off.
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