Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Montanans Insist on Gun Rights
The Washington Times ^ | February 25, 2008 | Valerie Richardson

Posted on 02/25/2008 3:21:43 PM PST by kellynla

Montana officials are warning that if the Supreme Court rules in the D.C. gun ban case that the right to keep and bear arms protects only state-run militias like the National Guard, then the federal government will have breached Montana's statehood contract.

Nobody is raising flags for the Republic of Montana, but nobody is kidding, either. So far, 39 elected Montana officials have signed a resolution declaring that a court ruling of the Second Amendment is a right of states and not of individuals would violate Montana's compact.

"The U.S. would do well to keep its contractual promise to the states that the Second Amendment secures an individual right now as it did upon execution of the statehood contract," Montana Secretary of State Brad Johnson said in a Feb. 15 letter to The Washington Times.

The resolution also was signed by Rep. Denny Rehberg, Montana's lone Republican congressman, and state Sen. Roy Brown, who is running to unseat Gov. Brian Schweitzer, a Democrat.

The dispute goes back more than a century. Back in 1889, the settlers of the Montana territory struck a deal with the federal government: They agreed to join the union, and the government agreed that individuals had the right to bear arms.

That has worked fine for the past 118 years, but the Supreme Court is expected next month to hear oral argument in District of Columbia v. Heller, the appeal of a federal court decision striking down the District's gun-ownership ban on Second Amendment grounds.

The high court has not issued a broad ruling on Second Amendment law in almost 70 years, including the key question of whether it provides an individual right, like speech and jury trial, or a "collective right" held by state governments.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; Government; US: Montana
KEYWORDS: banglist; beararms; constitution; guns; heller; montana; mtsos
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 181-188 next last
To: Spktyr

600 meters? That would be tough. You’d only get about two shots before they start to return fire.

Granted the sights say a thousand meters(I think, it might be 2000), but that’s meant to be done in large volleys shooting at very large targets or massed troops.

In other words, it never happens.


41 posted on 02/25/2008 5:04:32 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: MrPiper

Really? I haven’t seen any 303 in years. THere’s no military on the planet still using it.


42 posted on 02/25/2008 5:06:39 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: mamelukesabre
A 303 British is just about useless. Where are you going to get reliable ammo?

Out of one of the cases of ammo in my gun closet thank you!

Stock up before the revolution.

43 posted on 02/25/2008 5:09:20 PM PST by ME-262 (Nancy Pelosi is known to the state of CA to render Viagra ineffective causing reproductive harm.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: kellynla; All
Beware of discussions about the 2nd A. that don't also mention the 14th Amendment. Here's why...

John Bingham, the main author of Sec. 1 of the 14th A., included the 2nd A. when he read the first eight amendments as examples of constitutional statutes containing privileges and immunities that the 14th A. applied to the states. So there is no doubt in my mind that the 2nd and 14th Amendments protect the personal right to keep and bear arms from both the federal and state governments as much as any other constitutional privilege and immunity protects other personal rights.

See the 2nd A. in the middle column of the following page from the Congressional Globe, a precursor to the Congressional Record.

http://tinyurl.com/y3ne4n
Note that the referenced page is dated for more than two years after the 14th A. was ratified. So Bingham was evidently reassuring his colleagues about the scope and purpose of the ratified 14th Amendment.
44 posted on 02/25/2008 5:20:56 PM PST by Amendment10
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mamelukesabre
A 303 british is just about useless. Where are you going to get reliable ammo?

You probably should have that .303 ammo on hand long before the SHTF. That really goes for any caliber, as ammo will fly off the shelves of every retailer at the slightest sniff of unrest. If said unrest actually occurs, there probably won't be any restocking going on for quite a while.

45 posted on 02/25/2008 5:30:45 PM PST by Charles Martel (The Tree of Liberty thirsts.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: mamelukesabre

There are many people on record that have hit out to 800-1000 meters with a Mauser 98 in 8mm Mauser using only the iron sights.

And there are any number of dead US troops from WW2 that were casualties of the M98.


46 posted on 02/25/2008 5:31:31 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: mamelukesabre

Also, it takes them a while to figure out where the rounds are coming from, if the shooter does his job properly.

Finally, I’ve seen someone get off all five rounds and get 5 hits on 5 separate targets at 800 meters in about 10-15 seconds. So it’s more than possible.


47 posted on 02/25/2008 5:33:28 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Charles Martel

Well, if you team up with some guys to go make a move on some enemy somewhere, and you are down to 5 rounds or so, your buddies are going to want to donate a few rounds to you so you can maybe save their backsides when it gets hairy. If you’re carrying a stupid old 303, what are the odds, you think, that one of the others might have a few of those 303s in their pocket?

I’d say you’re SOL and your buddies aren’t gonna be real happy about you carrying an old relic that will turn into a club in about 5 pulls of the trigger.

Leave the relic on the wall and get something chambered for a NATO round. Stock up on NATO ammo. THen when you do team up with some buddies, YOU can be the one that donates a few rounds to the poor schlub that runs low and YOU can be the one that tells the yay-hoo with the 303 to give the antique back to gramps and go find something that doesn’t use extinct bullets, ramrods, or flint.

BTW, most of us are going to be too old to actually go hunting the enemy(if we aren’t already there) if and when it comes down to that. The oldsters with weapon caches will not likely be more than secret resupply bases for the kids that are doing the fighting. You won’t even be useful for that if all you got is a hodg-podge of old junk that nobody’s(meaning the kids that are doing the fighting) ever heard of.


48 posted on 02/25/2008 6:05:07 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: mamelukesabre
If people are going to be "hunting the enemy", then they can do it with whatever rifle and caliber floats their boat. Others have commented on the "field resupply", which you turned into some sort of futile, storm-the-machine-gun-nest scenario. How about picking an easier target, like a supply truck crew at the end of a convoy?

Ultimately, I agree that you should have a long gun that chambers NATO ammo. Most of the ammo that you'll encounter when "hunting" will likely be 5.56x45, not 7.62x51. Taking the enemy's firearms isn't any tougher than going after the ammo alone. So, either buy something appropriate beforehand - or get one as outlined above *before* you're down to five rounds of .303/8mm Mauser/.30-06/whatever.

As an aside, there are a bunch of Ishapore Enfield SMLEs out there in 7.62 NATO. The definition of "relic" gets sort of fuzzy around the edges.

49 posted on 02/25/2008 6:24:25 PM PST by Charles Martel (The Tree of Liberty thirsts.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: kellynla

This makes me proud to be American!


50 posted on 02/25/2008 7:16:55 PM PST by villagerjoel (Give me liberty, or give me death!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LucyT

“A few days ago someone posted the average Montana household has eight guns.”

Lightweights... I’ve got twice that in a single caliber. ;)


51 posted on 02/25/2008 7:53:33 PM PST by Catulus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: LucyT

I have six but my dad has over 50.


52 posted on 02/25/2008 7:54:41 PM PST by Montana4Jesus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: mamelukesabre

I wouldn’t bet your life on that one. Most of my friends have at least 2 shotguns (12 and 20 gauge), 2-3 rifles (22-250, 243 and 7MM, 30-06, 308, etc) for small and big game, 2-3 pistols including 9mm, 40 caliber and 44 magnum. Every one of which will put a big hole in you. Not to mention the 50 calibre muzzle loader for the coyotes.


53 posted on 02/25/2008 7:58:05 PM PST by Montana4Jesus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: mamelukesabre

“AR10, HK/CETME, or the new FN SCAR heavy.”

What, no M14?


54 posted on 02/25/2008 8:05:01 PM PST by Catulus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: mamelukesabre

“A 303 british is just about useless. Where are you going to get reliable ammo?”

By a press and components.


55 posted on 02/25/2008 8:05:47 PM PST by Catulus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Catulus

Dude, get with the times. M14s are antiques.

The military is getting rid of them for the new FN SCAR. The AR10 and the CETME/G3 variants are vastly superior to that old relic. And the G3/CETME variants are quickly becoming relics themselves. Unfortunatly, the AR10 is a never-was. I think it’s HK that has started making M16s with AK style gas systems. Hopefully they’ll start doing the same with the AR10. I’d like one of those.

If I wanted a relic, I’d go for a savage model 99 chambered for 308.


56 posted on 02/25/2008 8:52:41 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: mamelukesabre

H&K is making the 416. Put it in sand or water, shake it off, and fire it.

Marksmen use the M-14.


57 posted on 02/25/2008 9:17:45 PM PST by wastedyears (This is my BOOMSTICK)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: All

Bumping this as Second Amendment-related threads are some of the ones I like most.


58 posted on 02/25/2008 9:22:03 PM PST by wastedyears (This is my BOOMSTICK)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: Spktyr

There certainly is an advantage to our experiences. LOL


59 posted on 02/25/2008 10:02:57 PM PST by B4Ranch ("In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." FDR)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: mvpel

That is pretty much how this individual citizen sees it.


60 posted on 02/25/2008 10:07:10 PM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 181-188 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson