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Need help outing a "fake" war hero. (says he flew at Toko-Ri @ age 15/won Navy Cross).
03 APR 08 | dcbryan1

Posted on 04/03/2008 9:35:22 AM PDT by DCBryan1

I have an co-worker who is older, and completely full of crap. His birthday is May 02, 1937, making him 14-17 at the time of the Korean War.

He has told stories that are unbelievable to clients who, if they find out, could hurt our business. My boss approached me since I am military and asked me to find out how I can get documentation that we can print up in the coffee room to "out him" as a "stolen valor" type of guy.

The latest news is that he won the Navy Cross in 1952 (when he was 15-16) when flying missions over Korea.

My questions are:

Isn't there a "stolen valor" law? And does it only pertain to wearing the uniform, or does it encompass verbal attestations?

Is there an unclassified way to look up someones war records or a datatbase with Navy Cross recipients as there is with the CMOH?

How would you handle the situation? (My first reaction, as a veteran, is an ass stomping of an old man, but I think humility and shunning would be much more appropriate IMHO).

My boss, myself, and co-workers are simply sick of his BS and would like to enlist your sources on the subject.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: Arkansas; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: fakehero; fraud; stolenvalor
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I am at work now and would do more research at home tonight, but will be busy the next few nights, otherwise, I wouldn't ask for this favor from true heros and patriots from FReepublic.

Thanks!

Out!

1 posted on 04/03/2008 9:35:23 AM PDT by DCBryan1
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To: DCBryan1

You might want to ping the banglist guys, as that would probably be a good source.

I would love this information, as well.


2 posted on 04/03/2008 9:37:55 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Mossad!)
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To: DCBryan1

What did he fly, and what carrier was he on?


3 posted on 04/03/2008 9:38:31 AM PDT by WakeUpAndVote (Typical white man.)
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To: DCBryan1

I recognize that wikipedia is not always reliable, but there is a list of recipients here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Navy_Cross_recipients


4 posted on 04/03/2008 9:39:12 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: DCBryan1
I believe a DD214 would show any awards etc.....ask him to bring it in for you to post on the board for all to admire and give him proper credit or have him shut up....not sure if any legal ramifications of falsely blabbering honors
5 posted on 04/03/2008 9:39:34 AM PDT by CGASMIA68
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To: DCBryan1

Bump for justice.


6 posted on 04/03/2008 9:39:56 AM PDT by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: DCBryan1

My first response would probably be to tell him to bring it and his citation in, as a sort of show and tell. Then press on when he hems and haws about doing that.


7 posted on 04/03/2008 9:40:01 AM PDT by kenth (I have a apolitical blues)
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To: WakeUpAndVote

Did he know William Holden and Mickey Rooney? :)


8 posted on 04/03/2008 9:40:04 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Resolute Conservative

Toko-Ri was a creation of James Michener.


9 posted on 04/03/2008 9:42:38 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: DCBryan1

The Navy Cross is a pretty public award. Ask him to bring in the medal and certificate. Otherwise, unit and station info is probably the way to go.


10 posted on 04/03/2008 9:42:43 AM PDT by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
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To: DCBryan1

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=navy+cross+korea


11 posted on 04/03/2008 9:42:51 AM PDT by ErnBatavia (...forward this to your 10 very best friends....)
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To: ClearCase_guy

cant do much better than that.....print it up and post it and or e-mail it to him....If hes on it you owe him


12 posted on 04/03/2008 9:43:39 AM PDT by CGASMIA68
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To: DCBryan1

post #11 has two reportedly complete rosters...should satisfy one way or the other


13 posted on 04/03/2008 9:43:47 AM PDT by ErnBatavia (...forward this to your 10 very best friends....)
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To: DCBryan1

Sound interested and engage him. Get as much detail as you can, written down if possible. What service was he in? What squadron was he with? What type of airplane did he fly? From what airbase or aircraft carrier? What rank was he? What did he do before he flew at Toko-Ri? Where did he take his various pilot training courses? If he gets curious, tell him you told your kids about him and they thought it was cool, and you’re getting the info for them. Once you have simple information like that, you can research using an Internet search engine.

I’m a civilian, but I’ll say this much—it’s always been my impression that in that time period, he’d have to have been a Navy or Marine pilot to win a Navy Cross. Pilots were commissioned officers, which generally (but not always) means he’d have to have had a college degree. Realistically, when you factor that in, plus the time it’d take to train a fighter pilot, I don’t think he could be any younger than 22 and be a Navy/Marine officer pilot of a single-seat or two-seat fighter/attack aircraft. But I’d defer on that to some of our military experts.

}:-)4


14 posted on 04/03/2008 9:43:56 AM PDT by Moose4 (If you get robbed, raped, or killed in Durham County, NC today, thank a probation officer.)
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To: DCBryan1
Google turned up a site with names for Korea only. The site google links doesn't want to load, but the cached copy is here
15 posted on 04/03/2008 9:46:04 AM PDT by Vermonter
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To: DCBryan1

This link may help you to get started:

http://www.stolenvalor.com/foia.htm


16 posted on 04/03/2008 9:46:20 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (Hussein ObamaSamma's Pastor, Jeremiah Wright: "God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11")
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To: DCBryan1
A BTT. Yes, there is a "stolen valor" law but unless he's actually wearing the medals it'll be tough to snag him. But there aren't all that many Navy Cross winners to sort through.

You might start by seeing if his name is in THIS LIST.

17 posted on 04/03/2008 9:46:20 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Resolute Conservative

Where do we get such men...


18 posted on 04/03/2008 9:46:57 AM PDT by NavVet ( If you don't defend Conservatism in the Primaries, you won't have it to defend in November)
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To: DCBryan1
The United States Attorney's Office is prosecuting such crimes. You can find some information here

These cases were all investigated by the Veterans Affairs Office of Inspector General VA-OIG. The VA Office of the Inspector General operates a HOTLINE for the public to confidentially and safely report crimes like “Stolen Valor” involving VA or its programs. Call 800-488-8244, or fax to 202-565-7936, or e-mail to vaoighotline@va.gov, or write to VA OIG HOTLINE, PO Box 50410, Washington, DC 20091-0410.

The cases filed in the Western District of Washington are being prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorney Ronald J. Friedman. For additional information please contact Emily Langlie, Public Affairs Officer for the United States Attorney’s Office, at (206) 553-4110.

19 posted on 04/03/2008 9:47:00 AM PDT by Loud Mime (If Muslims love death, why do they have hospitals?)
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To: DCBryan1; MeanWestTexan

There have been a lot of these stories lately. Stolen Valor Act definitely applies here.


20 posted on 04/03/2008 9:48:30 AM PDT by darkangel82 (If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. (Say no to RINOs))
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To: DCBryan1
yeah, right after I single handedly captured the bridges at Toko-ri, I met my wife to be, Morgan Fairchild, yeah, thats the ticket.
21 posted on 04/03/2008 9:48:32 AM PDT by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
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To: DCBryan1

Is it possible he has just lied about his birthday (not wanting to reveal his age) and not the rest?


22 posted on 04/03/2008 9:49:12 AM PDT by austinaero
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To: DCBryan1

Mistaken identity - Hillary Clinton won the Navy Cross in Korea.


23 posted on 04/03/2008 9:50:22 AM PDT by oldbill
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To: DCBryan1
My uncle Don was Air Force and was shot down during the KW. His story is in the book, Beyond Courage : Escape Tales of Airmen in the Korean War

Be sure and let us know what happens! If he's a phony, out him!
24 posted on 04/03/2008 9:56:26 AM PDT by bamahead (Avoid self-righteousness like the devil- nothing is so self-blinding. -- B.H. Liddell Hart)
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To: t1b8zs
. . . not sure if any legal ramifications of falsely blabbering honors

I read recently about a man who was convicted for falsley claiming to have won some medal while serving in the military - so, there could be legal ramifications.

25 posted on 04/03/2008 9:57:08 AM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a 2nd BCT 10th Mountain Soldier home after 15 months in the Triangle of death)
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To: DCBryan1

See the book Fake Warriors for advice.


26 posted on 04/03/2008 9:58:18 AM PDT by Doctor Raoul (Fire the CIA and hire the Free Clinic, someone who knows how to stop leaks.)
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To: DCBryan1
If your company has an HR department, your boss should refer the issue to them, particularly if he has claimed any veterean status on his application/resume - grounds for firing.

He sounds like a piker - perhaps a real Navy vet could engage him in conversation - a fake will be found out within minutes.

27 posted on 04/03/2008 10:00:23 AM PDT by frankenMonkey (101st Airborne Army Dad)
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To: t1b8zs

maybe he just “misspoke” when he refuses to bring it in or asks, “Whats a DD-214?”


28 posted on 04/03/2008 10:03:53 AM PDT by Holicheese (Hillary deserves the CMoH for her time in Tuzla!)
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To: DCBryan1
If he put his military service on his resume, it should be as easy as his boss asking to see his dd214
29 posted on 04/03/2008 10:04:27 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: DCBryan1
You should contact the Stolen Valor website - they can advise you on legal ramifications and on obtaining contrapositive documentation.

The fact that this guy is claiming to have won a Navy Cross as a pilot at the age of 15 is egregious and may violate federal law.

30 posted on 04/03/2008 10:05:32 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: darkangel82
We had a situation like this at work a few years ago.

Our new electrical specialist claimed to have once belonged to the 75th Ranger Division and that he was also the seventh highest decorated soldier still alive. He also claimed to have a Kentucky Master Electrician's license.

The first claim was easy to disprove, as there was never a Ranger division, and we do have a documented Ranger who works for us and two others who were attached to Ranger units on a temporary basis (one was a medic and the other a translator).

The second claim was even easier to disprove, as there were about one hundred thirty Medal of Honor recipients still alive at the time, and his claims of having four Distinguished Service Crosses just didn't ring true.

And finally, his claim to be a master electrician quickly came unraveled when he couldn't answer the simplest questions about electricity.

He quit about fifteen minutes before he was going to be called to the back and fired for lying on his application.

31 posted on 04/03/2008 10:07:58 AM PDT by Stonewall Jackson (Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory. - George Patton)
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To: DCBryan1
First, read up on a chemical called "methohexital". It's used in dentistry (and other minor surgical procedures as an anesthetic).

You can "revise memories" with this stuff.

If you do a Google.com search there ought to be several pieces in the first 10 hits that refer you to its use in psychiatry.

BTW, it can "delete memories", and "add memories", all in the hands of an experienced professional (of some kind).

Probably the reason Hillary thinks she was under fire in Bosnia ~ ever check how many face lifts and tooth jobs she's had done ~ it's incredible. If this is her anesthetic of choice she's developed an interesting set of beliefs based on what the dentist told her (while under), what he had on TV or radio as "background noise" at the time, or maybe what Bill Clinton wanted her to believe ~ yeah, an auxiliary to "date rape drug", the "forgeddabout it drug" for your spouse!

Remember, these people have no morals or scruples so anything is possible.

Back to the guy at work, as I recall what gets these guys busted is when they start wearing pieces of uniforms with insignia, or various awards. The awards are protected by law.

About telling tall tales about military service, not real sure that such behavior in the absence of the insignias and awards are actionable.

Also, the age you are setting for this guy puts him well within the range of Alzheimers. He may very well not be able to differentiate between memories of what he did and what he saw on TV.

With folks who are "elderly" or nearly so, it's probably best to avoid the prosecutorial route as a first course of action.

32 posted on 04/03/2008 10:08:20 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Behind The Bridges at Toko-ri - true facts behind fictional book by James A. Michener

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IAX/is_3_84/ai_108548248


33 posted on 04/03/2008 10:08:29 AM PDT by Mila
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To: darkangel82

I own a company and periodically get potential employees claiming military service on their resumes (and I admittedly favor recruiting them).

No claims of medal-of-honor guys, but I’d sure like to be able to check if they got a proper discharge.

The DOD has never been particularly helpful in this regard, essentially demanding a release from the potential employee and a six-eight week waiting period.


34 posted on 04/03/2008 10:09:17 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Mossad!)
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To: DCBryan1
The Stolen Valor Act of 2005 is the best route, as others here have stated. Under the Act, a "phony warrior" can be prosecuted just for claiming he has earned a medal. He doesn't need to show it or wear it. He doesn't even have to ever have served in the military. It's a Federal crime, so I would suggest contacting the Department of Justice or your local US District Attorney. You'll be doing every honorable veteran and honorable active duty member a service they deserve.
35 posted on 04/03/2008 10:09:56 AM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: Billthedrill
A verbal claim is against the law as well. If enough people heard him make the claim, prosecute him.

Stolen Valor Act of 2005 - Amends the federal criminal code to expand the prohibition against wearing, manufacturing, or selling military decorations or medals without legal authorization to prohibit purchasing, soliciting, mailing, shipping, importing, exporting, producing blank certificates of receipt for, advertising, trading, bartering, or exchanging such decorations or medals without authorization.

Prohibits falsely representing oneself as having been awarded any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the Armed Forces or any of the service medals or badges.

Increases penalties for violations if the offense involves a distinguished service cross, an Air Force Cross, a Navy Cross, a silver star, or a Purple Heart.

Under the Stolen Valor Act, falsely claiming to have received the Navy Cross, Air Force Cross, Distinguished Service Medal, Silver Star or Purple Heart would double the maximum penalty to up to a year in prison, bringing those medals in line with the Medal of Honor.

36 posted on 04/03/2008 10:10:01 AM PDT by rednesss (Fred Thompson - 2008)
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To: t1b8zs

I am probably the only person I know personally, including some that I know served in the military, that could produce a DD-214 without having to order a copy from the Department of Defense.


37 posted on 04/03/2008 10:11:03 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

I posted the link in case anyone was interested in what inspired Michener.


38 posted on 04/03/2008 10:11:18 AM PDT by Mila
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To: rednesss
Yep, but you have to prove it. A recorded statement might do it.

Man, I was what, the eighth poster hitting that link? LOL! I'm gittin' slow...

39 posted on 04/03/2008 10:12:29 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: DCBryan1
The Bridges at toko-ri is a fictional book by James Michener and is based on exploits of pilots off the USS Essex.

The guy is a fake. Expose him.

40 posted on 04/03/2008 10:12:51 AM PDT by Pistolshot (Remember, no matter how bad your life is, someone is watching and enjoying your suffering.)
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To: Stonewall Jackson

Good thing you guys didn’t set him up to work on a live line eh?!


41 posted on 04/03/2008 10:13:00 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Loud Mime

I think the actual crimes are: (1) wearing honors one did not earn (except in plays/movies) and (2) applying for VA benefits.

Being a blow-hard is not actionable. (I think.)


42 posted on 04/03/2008 10:13:29 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Mossad!)
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To: DCBryan1

If he’s lying, I hope you nail him.....


43 posted on 04/03/2008 10:14:47 AM PDT by colinhester
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To: DCBryan1

bump


44 posted on 04/03/2008 10:15:47 AM PDT by Chuck54
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To: colinhester; DCBryan1

..and if he is telling the truth, buy him a case of beer.
:->


45 posted on 04/03/2008 10:16:17 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: DCBryan1
About twenty years ago there was a fellow in my town that claimed to be a MOH recipient. I couldn't find his name on any lists so I emailed the MOH society his name and supposed deeds....and I got the FBI in return. This guy faked his DD214 and was receiving compensation from the state for his MOH and free tags. It took almost ten years for him to be prosecuted and convicted and when he was sentenced got probation and had to make a public apology.
46 posted on 04/03/2008 10:16:19 AM PDT by vetvetdoug
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To: MeanWestTexan
but I’d sure like to be able to check if they got a proper discharge.

When released from active duty, you're given your form DD-214 and told to guard it with your life. Ask to see it.

47 posted on 04/03/2008 10:19:38 AM PDT by ErnBatavia (...forward this to your 10 very best friends....)
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To: muawiyah

I agree. He’s nearly seventy-one. He’s probably just demented.

In any case, I’d say that siccing the FBI on him would be a waste of time and money.


48 posted on 04/03/2008 10:21:21 AM PDT by furquhart (John S. McCain for President)
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To: muawiyah
I actually work in a hardware store, so there isn't much chance for that. But I did have to grab a customer he'd spoken with and provide him with the correct materials for wiring up his range, otherwise he would have been in a world of trouble.

Our idiot liar had given him 14-gauge wire and a 15-amp single pole breaker when he actually needed 6-gauge wire and a 50-amp double pole breaker. If something had gone wrong and that customer's house had burned down or he was electrocuted, that would have been our fault because we didn't check his certification before turning him loose. And I'm pretty sure I speak for all of the other managers when I say that we really don't want a death on our consciouses.

49 posted on 04/03/2008 10:22:59 AM PDT by Stonewall Jackson (Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory. - George Patton)
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To: furquhart

I’d sic them on him anyway, but I’m just mean like that.


50 posted on 04/03/2008 10:24:40 AM PDT by darkangel82 (If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. (Say no to RINOs))
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