Lawmaker: Investigate FLDS-linked contract (YFZ/fLDS Daily Thread - 4/39/08)

The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 04/30/2008 | Thomas Burr

[MizSterious]

4/29 thread with articles on:

"Lost" boys found, cult children statistics, more on WE documentary, sect doctors silent on abuse question, legal news and details, woman recalls life in sect, children's diet, Texans chip in to help, children at one shleter think they're all siblings, sect placement marriages "diabolical," sect threatens lawsuit, questions DNA tests might answer, teen mother gives birth (it's a boy)

4/28 thread with articles on:

Criminal charges urged for YFZ, new "prophet" film, debate over legalities of raid, Bountiful, BC fLDS group, reason in religious beliefs, former fLDS member shares insights, more on the Short Creek raid, documentary about group on WE TV.

4/27 thread with articles on:

Gene disorders in group, child custody processes, appeal to Gov. Perry, unusual way of life in YFZ, possibility of children held at YFZ whose parents were forced out, sheriff says authorities had spy inside sect.

4/26 thread with articles on:

Cost of care for the children of the sect, charges that two kids might be missing, how members of the sect dress, court rejects requests of mothers to stay with children, appeals court cancels hearing, Canadian involved in sect, culture shock for kids, oil drillers last laugh, possible involvement in human trafficking and drugs at Colorado City, Rep. Kay Granger's request to investigate financial ties to USG

4/25 thread with aritcles on:

Courts allowing state to place children in foster homes, legal challenges to the raid, beliefs on polygamy, protests against the raid and removal of children, Warren Jeff's appeal, portions of the Texas Family Code

4/24 thread with articles on:

Seized polygamous sect kids face tough adjustment, articles on how and where the children were placed, Carolyn Jessup on Canadian children possibly at the ranch, legal aid group challenges judge, interview with Benjamin Bistline, 40 women choose to go to safe house instead of back to cult, 25 girls claimed to be adults, now found to be minors.

Currently collecting informative links to include with the daily threads--should appear this weekend.

As always, for the sake of orderliness (and to prevent the pulling of threads and/or messages), let's do try to stay on topic and polite. You can't have a flame war if you don't take the bait.

____________________

If certain frequently posted graphics are causing problems on your computer, FireFox browser (and possibly others) can actually block them entirely. Just right-click your mouse, and click on the "block image from..." option.

____________________

I do not run a pinglist, but you can freepmail Politicalmom and request that you be added to her FLDS Eldorado Legal Case Ping List.

[MizSterious]

Daily thread ping!

[MizSterious]

Posted at: 04/29/2008 02:03:09 PM

Updated at: 04/30/2008 07:16:01 AM

By: Tom Joles, Eyewitness News 4, and Reed Upton, KOB.com

Polygamist sect builds compound in Four Corners

One of many structures located on the Four Corners property visible from Chopper 4.  There were also trucks, motorcycles, gardens -- but no people.

A member of a polygamist sect based in Texas that has been making national headlines owns a 100-acre property with several buildings in the Four Corners area.

The land near Mancos, Colorado – about an hour north of Farmington – was quietly purchased in 2003 by a man named David Allred, the son-in-law of self proclaimed prophet Warren Jeffs.

Their sect – the Fundamentalist Latter Day saints – broke away from the Mormon Church when it renounced polygamy.

Jeffs is currently in prison for arranging marriages between underage girls and older men, but other sect members are still circulating.

Tom Vaughn, the retired editor of the Mancos Times, has been following the development of the property since its purchase and says he has no idea how many people live there.

While the population remains a mystery, Vaughn knows a lot about the buildings.

Excerpt. Read the rest at source: KOB.com.

[MizSterious]

Texas CPS faces strain after polygamy ranch sweep 7:05 AM CT

07:14 AM CDT on Wednesday, April 30, 2008

By ROBERT T. GARRETT / The Dallas Morning News
rtgarrett@dallasnews.com

AUSTIN — Texas’ child welfare agency, where workers handling foster children already stagger under huge workloads, faces a major test — and lawmakers are watching.

The addition of nearly 500 very complicated cases of children swept from a polygamist ranch this month will strain Child Protective Services, experts said Tuesday.

“You were seeing amazing turnover already,” said Madeline McClure, executive director of TexProtects, a Dallas-based group that advocates for abused and neglected children.

She cited CPS’ loss last year of nearly 40 percent of its child-abuse investigators. In the first quarter of this fiscal year, “conservatorship caseworkers,” who oversee children removed from bad homes, were quitting at an annual turnover rate of 32 percent.

Excerpt. Read the rest at source: Dallas Morning News.

[greyfoxx39]

Daily Thread Ping.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Polygamist sect builds compound in Four Corners ***

NO!NO! NOT MY FAVORITE PART OF AMERICA! RUINED!

It’s too bad my worthless brother-in-law (if you know him he probably owes you money)lives in Farmington, but this takes the cake!

That is why, alas, I am still in Arkansas.

[MizSterious]

Shurtleff eager to educate Reid on polygamy battle

By Suzanne Struglinski
Deseret News

Published: April 30, 2008

WASHINGTON — Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff wants to "educate" Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on what the state has done to fight polygamy after the Nevada Democrat said Utah and Arizona are turning "a blind eye" to the issue.

Reid, a Nevada Democrat, is pushing for the federal government to take a closer look at polygamy in light of the raid at a Fundamentalist LDS Church's compound in Eldorado, Texas. In a radio interview Monday, Reid based his push on what he claims is

Utah's lack of enforcement on the group, which angered Shurtleff.

"The state of Utah is doing nothing," Reid said on University of Utah's KUER radio "RadioWest" program. "If not the federal government, who?"

Reid said he is a "cheerleader for what has gone on in Texas."

"I think Texas is doing what Utah and Arizona should have done decades ago." Reid, a Mormon, told radio host Doug Fabrizio. He said he was "embarrassed" for the two states.

"Utah politicians are afraid to do anything about it and I think that's wrong," Reid said. "It doesn't make those states look good."

Reid said he supported the Texas decision to move the children taken from the compound into foster facilities.

Shurtleff was angry at Reid's words and is writing a letter to the senator demanding an apology on behalf of those who have worked against polygamy in the state. He's also including a list of what the state has done in combat polygamy and pointing to problems in Nevada.

"How could (Reid) be so ignorant to what has been going on here," Shurtleff said. "He is completely wrong. I don't know where he's been."

Shurtleff pointed out that the crackdown on the Texas ranch stems from Utah's work in fighting the group in the state.

"They wouldn't be in Texas if we didn't kick them out of Utah," Shurtleff said.

The Utah Attorney General also pointed out that Nevada has its own set of polygamy problems that "(Reid) knows nothing about." Shurtleff noted that that FLDS leader Warren Jeffs performed "child-bride marriages" in Caliente, Nev., and was arrested in Nevada before the Utah legal system sent him to jail.

Earlier this month, Reid wrote U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey asking for a federal task force to investigate polygamist groups. He initially requested the same probe from former Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez. Justice Department spokesman Peter Carr said the department is reviewing the letter.

Shurtleff said he invited federal officials five years ago to the state to talk about polygamy, but there seemed to be little interest. At the time there was renewed emphasis on terrorism and homeland security, Shurtleff acknowledged.

"We have been calling on the federal government for help," he said.

Shurtleff said he would appreciate Reid's help to push for the federal government involvement, but he emphasized that the state has worked on the problem.

Kirk Jowers, director of the University of Utah's Hinckley Institute of Politics, said that Reid's comments were "some kind of overcompensation. ... It seemed to be more of a negative way to give him some cover. It seems more self serving."

Jowers said it was not productive for Reid to be "firing shots at his neighboring states."

Source: The Deseret News.

[metmom]

"I am concerned that such scrutiny did not occur in this case, and that funds from this company may have been used to support the FLDS church's activities."

This is an interesting concern.

Are there any restrictions on where the profits from contracts with the federal government can be used? They certainly need to be looking into other aspects of the contracts, ages and qualifications of people doing the work and all. But I don't know about the rest. Does it become private money?

What about if some muzzie group contracts out with the federal government and then it's profits go to support jihad and other organizations determined to bring down the US?

I can understand the concern about supporting groups that engage in immoral and illegal practices, but how far can the connection be made? Once it becomes private money, does the government have any say in what is done with it?

[PennsylvaniaMom]

I think Granger worded her statement very poorly...so that it can be misinterpreted. Just from what I have read, I would hazard that the contracts were underbid (routinely) because labor costs were nil (apparently paychecks are issued, but ‘tithed’ back to the flds...as they only employ flds members as labor...so its kind of a racket and as it is interstate I wonder if RICO comes into play). It begs the questions if payroll and federal taxes were paid, underaged workers/undocumented (the question of birth certificates rears it head again) used, OHSA regs per age, hours of work, etc., followed...it kind of goes on and on (legally). But Granger seems to skirt the most valid, legal questions that Congressional scrutiny should be applied too...and goes to their ‘activities’ (beliefs?) Somebody in her office needs to ‘clarify’ what the boss meant....

[greyfoxx39]

I used to live in Farmington...maybe I know your brother. This is so disgusting, that the FLDS is in the Mancos area. Beautiful country.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Four Courners, eh? Figures that they’d want a site that enables them to hop state lines in and out of FOUR states. After all, the Arizona and Utah authorities finally seem to have gotten a handle on the two state scheme.

[Nevadan]

re: because labor costs were nil (apparently paychecks are issued, but ‘tithed’ back to the flds...as they only employ flds members as labor...

The FLDS group reminds me a lot of communism. In communism the government owns everything and is in control of everything. The citizens are essentially slaves. In the FLDS, the “prophet” owns everything and is in control of everyone. The members are essentially slaves.

[MEGoody]

Okay. . .I'm a bit confused here.

I'm certainly glad that this cult got raided and the kids got saved, but. . .why would the government expect a company to treat as a criminal a group that hadn't, at that point, been investigated for or charged with criminal activity?

[greyfoxx39]

It begs the questions if payroll and federal taxes were paid, underaged workers/undocumented (the question of birth certificates rears it head again) used, OHSA regs per age, hours of work, etc., followed...it kind of goes on and on (legally).

This brings up the question of social security numbers. How genuine are the numbers since IIRC you need a birth certificate to get one?

It appears that the whole fraudulent house of cards built by the FLDS may come tumbling down around their ears.

What disgusts me is that Utah and Arizona allowed this criminal enterprise free reign for decades.

[PennsylvaniaMom]

Good analogy. It was posted (on one of the 17,000 plus flds threads) that the ‘workers’ have no ‘need’ of money, as their needs are provided by the church (flds). That just really smacked between the eyes...if you had questions about your ‘faith’ the free will to leave is gone not just spirtually, but you don’t even have cash to live on someplace else. It is mind boogling how every aspect of the members existance were ruled over by the profit (misspelling intentional).

[MizSterious]

Interviewed in Amarillo

Yearning to see sons

By Sean Thomas
sean.thomas@amarillo.com
Publication Date: 04/30/08

Editor's note: The Amarillo Globe-News obtained an interview with a Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints mother of two boys currently housed at Cal Farley's Boys Ranch. Certain restrictions were placed on interview questions. Barred were questions regarding polygamy and underage women married to older men or bearing children.

"I have four in captivity," she said flatly.

She said it soberly because that is how she views the actions of the state of Texas, which took more than 400 children from a Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ranch outside Eldorado.

Maggie, who declined to give her last name, is a 43-year-old mother of four children, one of many FLDS mothers who is confused by a child welfare system that would take children from what she considers a harmonious environment and thrust them into the outside world they know little about.

Maggie arrived in Amarillo on Tuesday in the hope of seeing her two boys, ages 13 and 15, housed at Cal Farley's Boys Ranch.

Boys Ranch has become the temporary home to 72 boys taken from the Yearning for Zion Ranch.

Maggie said there is no evidence of alleged child abuse at the YFZ Ranch.

"If there was actions, something in my household, actually somebody being immoral and touching the children and being a perpetrator ... ; if there was actually somebody doing that, I would be the first one turning them in," she said. "My children are too precious. I would never allow them to be subjected and exposed to evil like that."

A public outcry is what Maggie said she is looking for.

"Has America lost their feeling?" she said. "Can they not look at people and feel what they really are? How can somebody look at me or any of our people, our ladies, our pure children and actually be so stupid and insensitive to consider that those allegations would be correct?

"I am shocked there are not more people (who) would rise and say 'Why are we letting this happen?'" Maggie wasn't home when the YFZ Ranch was raided and children were taken away. She said she was traveling at the time and had left her two boys and her 6- and 8-year-old daughters in the care of another woman.

She has had no contact with her children since they were taken.

"I don't know if I can describe it. It was heartbreaking," Maggie said in a soft voice, her teal dress a splash of color in the muted office of attorney Vince Nowak. "It was just devastating to realize our children were being taken."

Nowak, an attorney with Mullin, Hoard & Brown, is representing one of her sons and four other children at Boys Ranch.

She wasn't outwardly passionate while discussing her children. She didn't raise her voice but gestured quickly and every so often clasped the small black binder in her lap.

A smile occasionally crossed her pale features, but the lack of outright passion is a controlled temperament her religion requires, she said.

"I could just carry on and rant and rave and bawl and act like an idiot ... but that is not part of my faith," she said. "Yes, I hurt inside, more than I could possibly describe. But, I am very grateful. Grateful to know our heavenly Father, our God in heaven, will take care of it ... his time and his way."

Maggie said she has lived out of a car for the past month, traveling across the state with her two adult sons while trying to find her children. Another FLDS mother, Mary, sat in on the interview.

In Maggie's eyes, history has not only repeated itself, but aggressions have grown worse. Maggie said she was raised with stories of the Short Creek Raid in Arizona. In 1953, state and federal authorities raided that FLDS camp.

Maggie said she knows a man who was traumatized the rest of his life because of the raid. She fears her children are being irreparably scarred much the same way.

"This is nothing new. Our people have been persecuted for 180 years," she said. "I believe it will take years for us to rehabilitate the minds of those children from the trauma they have experienced."

She said she will use the event to teach forgiveness.

"They are going to have to learn the great depths of forgiveness, and I am grateful for the opportunity to teach them," Maggie said.

Maggie isn't the only FLDS mother to come to Amarillo in the hopes of seeing her children.

About five have come to the Texas Panhandle hoping to meet with their children.

As for Maggie, she said she will now focus on trying to track down her 8-year-old daughter.

Source: Amarillo.com

[PennsylvaniaMom]

Yep...and that’s why the birth records (that are being poo-poo’d around here) are so critical. If you constantly move children from one sister mother to another; kids are routinely told not to tell their correct names; in theory one child could be ‘counted’ multiple times. So the actual, physical ‘head count’ of the kids on yfz and the actual ‘aid to dependent children’ could be different numbers. Really, its stunning how they worked to play the system...evil genius.

[MizSterious]

The area also has a reputation of being a sort of “no mans land,” perhaps for the same reason as you state. It’s a difficult area for keeping law and order as we know it.

[metmom]

But Granger seems to skirt the most valid, legal questions that Congressional scrutiny should be applied too...and goes to their ‘activities’ (beliefs?)

That's where I think she made a mistake, too. You can get them on legal technicalities but the other stuff is too elusive.

The comment about birth certificates is interesting. If they can only employ legal citizens, or rather can't employ illegals or non-citizens, how do they prove it without birth certificates? None of those kids on the compound can prove citizenship at the moment, unless it can be done through DNA testing and nailing the fathers.

[metmom]

re: because labor costs were nil (apparently paychecks are issued, but ‘tithed’ back to the flds...as they only employ flds members as labor...

Wouldn't something like that get the IRS involved? What about paying taxes and SS?