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Bush, and His Use of "Appeasement" ("Hitler's demands were not unreasonable"-Barf Alert)
Seattle Times ^ | 5/16/2008 | Bruce Ramsey

Posted on 05/16/2008 4:44:50 PM PDT by mojito

Democrats are rebuking President Bush for saying in his speech to the Knesset, here, that to “negotiate with terrorists and radicals” is “appeasement.” The Democrats took it as a slap at Barack Obama. What bothers me is the continual reference to Hitler and his National Socialists, particularly the British and French accommodation at the Munich Conference of 1938.

The narrative we're given about Munich is entirely in hindsight. We know what kind of man Hitler was, and that he started World War II in Europe. From the view of 1938, what Hitler was demanding at Munich was not unreasonable, according to the prevailing idea of the nation-state. His claim was that the German-speaking areas of Europe--and ones that thought of themselves as German --be under German authority. He had just annexed Austria, which was German-speaking, without bloodshed. There were two more small pieces of Germanic territory: the free city of Danzig and the Sudetenland, a border area of what is now the Czech Republic.

(Excerpt) Read more at blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; US: Washington; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: appeasement; borders; bordersmatter; looneyleft; moonbatbarking; obamessiah; presbushknesset08; seattletimes
From the fever-swamps of moonbat country comes this appalling defense of Obama that figures that Hitler's demands were reasonable, and so are all those of Palestinians calling for Israel's destruction.
1 posted on 05/16/2008 4:44:50 PM PDT by mojito
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To: mojito

Cat’s out of the bag.

I hope people e-mail this to everybody. We need to create a hell storm about this.


2 posted on 05/16/2008 4:46:36 PM PDT by wastedyears (Freedom is the right of all sentient beings. - Optimus Prime)
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To: mojito
There are 50 million people in Iraq and Afghanistan who are eternally greatful that Obama's policies were not in place for the last eight years...they are free to do so now because of Bush.

There has not been a major terror attack on our soil since 911, because of Bush and taking the fight to the enemy on their turf.

...and in the process, Iran, who is the chief sponsor of terror, is surrounded by our forces now, who are ready to attack should we need to.

Obama would have the world still living with Saddam Hussein, and an inabaility for us to respond to either him or Iran, and with terrorists having sanctuary states...and he calls that world safer.

I pray the American people will have the wisdom to see the difference.



AUDACITY OF TRUTH-BARACK CHAMBERLAIN

AUDACITY OF TRUTH-BARACK OBAMA

AUDACITY OF TRUTH-OBAMA'S CIRCLE OF FRIENDS

AUDACITY OF TRUTH-BLACK LIBERATION THEOLOGY

3 posted on 05/16/2008 4:47:46 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: mojito
So, if we extend this guys logic to the USA, then one must conclude that the formation of Azatlan would be reasonable. It would meet much of the same criteria:

It was once part of Mexico

Spanish is spoken by a significant part of the population.

And many still think of themselves as Mexicans, not Americans.

4 posted on 05/16/2008 4:49:53 PM PDT by Michael.SF. ("They're not Americans. They're liberals! "-- Ann Coulter, May 15, 2008)
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To: mojito
"The Democrats took it as a slap at Barack Obama."

Looks like Obama's a hit dog. At least the Democrats are saying so.

"There's an old saying in Arkansas: 'If you throw a rock over a fence it's the hit dog that hollers.'"
~Mike Huckabee~

5 posted on 05/16/2008 4:53:40 PM PDT by Savage Beast ("History is not just cruel. It is witty." ~Charles Krauthammer)
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To: mojito

America doesn’t appease its enemies.

America doesn’t talk with its enemies.

America exterminates its enemies.


6 posted on 05/16/2008 5:06:14 PM PDT by FFranco
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To: mojito

Dumber than a bag of hammers

Hey, Bruce tell us how those Oslo Accords turned out.

Freakin' idiot.

7 posted on 05/16/2008 5:11:13 PM PDT by A message
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To: mojito
From the view of 1938, what Hitler was demanding at Munich was not unreasonable,...

It was to men of honor and integrity. Check Winston S. Churchill's speeches and notes.

You are supposed to learn from history, but liberals just rewrite history instead.

8 posted on 05/16/2008 5:18:57 PM PDT by SampleMan (We are a free and industrious people, socialist nannies do not become us.)
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To: mojito
From the view of 1938, what Hitler was demanding at Munich was not unreasonable, according to the prevailing idea of the nation-state. His claim was that the German-speaking areas of Europe--and ones that thought of themselves as German --be under German authority. He had just annexed Austria, which was German-speaking, without bloodshed.

Annexed Austria? Who's this guy trying to kid? Hitler raped Austria! Hitler had a "special ambassador" by the name of Franz von Papen work to undermine the independence of Austria and unify with Nazi Germany since 1936! Austrian Nazis actively created a campaign of terror with daily bombings in some parts of the country and violent Nazi demonstrations in more rural provinces. The Nazis went as far as to assassinate Austrian Chancellor Dr. Kurt von Schuschnigg.

That was thwarted by a raid on Nazi headquarters in Vienna. Documents showed Rudolf Hess ordered Austrian Nazis to stage in open revolt in the spring of 1938. Hitler had Schuschnigg meet him in Germany at Hitler's home in Berchtesgaden where Hitler threatened military action under the pretense of a border dispute if Schuschnigg did not agree to Hitler's terms. Eventually Schuschnigg and other Austrian leaders ceded Austria to Hitler to avoid certain death of many Austrians.
9 posted on 05/16/2008 5:19:23 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: mojito
The Nazis went as far as to assassinate Austrian Chancellor Dr. Kurt von Schuschnigg.

Correction: This should read to plan the assasination.
10 posted on 05/16/2008 5:21:36 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: mojito
Mr. Ramsey is apparently serious. I'm sure the Austrians will look kindly upon the notion that Anschluss Österreichs was a "reasonable" demand. Mr. Ramsey may be unacquainted with the history of that part of Europe for the preceding 2000 years but it was not "reasonable" looked at from the perspective of 1938 or 938 or 38 AD.

And he misses the point entirely, which is that negotiating with bullies and aggressive military dictators is a futile and counterproductive process, and that people who do so under the cover of sanctimony and a bloated sense of self-importance deserve the epithet "appeaser." If the shoe fits, Mr. Obama should strap it on.

11 posted on 05/16/2008 5:21:39 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: mojito

Even though Hitler wanted to exterminate all of the Jews, his willingness to exterminate only 50% was actually quite reasonable.


12 posted on 05/16/2008 5:23:12 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham ("The land of the Free...Because of the Brave")
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To: mojito
If you get into a good argument with a liberal, they will tell you we have been wrong in EVERY war including WW2 and the Revolutionary War. Here is a short list:

Vietnam - Need I say more?

WW1 - We set up the Germans the Lusitania was carrying munitions

WW2 - We caused it by imposing unfair WW1 peace terms on the Germans at Versailles.

Revolutionary War - We were the "terrorsists" because we fought behind trees.

Spanish American War - imperialsit conquest.

Mexican American War - ditto.

Korean War - See Vietnam.

Gulf War/Iraq - Oil.

Bosnia - Oh that one was OK, if they are unwilling to criticize Clinton.

So you see, we have been wrong in every single war.

13 posted on 05/16/2008 5:23:17 PM PDT by Williams
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To: Michael.SF.
So, if we extend this guys logic to the USA, then one must conclude that the formation of Azatlan would be reasonable.

Most leftists would agree.

14 posted on 05/16/2008 5:23:59 PM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: mojito

It is to laugh that Obama’s ego has gotten to the point that he thinks this is about him.

“Burp” Hussain Obama apparently hasn’t realized yet that Bush isn’t running in this election.

Of course, he also hasn’t realized that he will be toast about a week after the candidates are selected by their convention and the truth about Obama and his REAL political agenda is revealed.


15 posted on 05/16/2008 5:27:47 PM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: Michael.SF.

I’m fine with “giving back” California to Mexico and deporting all illegals there regardless of nationality.


16 posted on 05/16/2008 5:29:54 PM PDT by sbMKE
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To: mojito
“The narrative we're given about Munich is entirely in hindsight.”

Utter crap! If this were even REMOTELY true Chamberlain wouldn't have gotten the sack. When Hitler realized he was dealing with self deluding cowards he began his march and never looked back. PLENTY of people at the time knew and said what Hitler was but self deluders don't hear anything they don't want to hear. Just as self deluders don't see History as it is but rather as it serves themselves to see it. Which is why, barring the arrival of some as yet unknown cavalry, it doesn't matter which of The Three Clowns is elected-We're headed into Armageddon, plain and simple.

It ain't 1938 any more.

17 posted on 05/16/2008 5:39:17 PM PDT by TalBlack
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To: mojito
To compare the Palestinians—who are occupied, oppressed, denied, stepped-on—with Hitler’s Germany in 1939 is incredible and ridiculous

Actually, according to this guy "logic" Palestine would be like the the Sudetenland and Achmadenajhad would be Hitler

.......So by his own train of thought, Obama Appeasing Achmadenajhad on Palestine would result in a World War.....did even understand what he wrote....you have to wonder.

18 posted on 05/16/2008 5:39:46 PM PDT by Kakaze (Exterminate Islamofacism and apologize for nothing.....except not doing it sooner!)
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To: mojito

Wow. An apologist for Hitler in defense of Hussein. The gift that keeps on giving!


19 posted on 05/16/2008 5:40:28 PM PDT by saganite
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To: Billthedrill; mojito; wastedyears; Jeff Head
Plus I'm having a hard time seeing how buying peace with Hitler in 1938 would have been anything other than a disaster.

Two things would certainly have happened and a third was a fair possibility:

1) Hitler would have had a free hand to murder millions of Jews, etc. without interference. It seems Mr. Ramsey figures this would have been “reasonable.”.

2) The Nazis would have perfected jet aircraft that would have swept the skies of anything America (and certainly Russia) could send up to challenge them.

3) The Nazis had a shot at producing a working atomic bomb.

All these things Hitler would have had time to accomplish or at least attempt in the years of “peace” resulting from giving in to his megalomaniac demands. WWII would have still happened, the start date would have only been delayed and the Nazis would have been even harder to stop.

And Mr. Ramsey (Obama surrogate) thinks that would have been reasonable.

Sheesh.

20 posted on 05/16/2008 6:06:29 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: mojito
All of which Hitler did get without firing a shot. But when the Germans took over the Czech lands in the spring of 1939, it became apparent even to British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, the arch appeaser, that there was no limit to the German demands in Europe. Great Britain then faced two choices: it could fight or it could die. It chose the former when Germany went to war in September 1939 by invading Poland.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

21 posted on 05/16/2008 6:21:26 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: mojito

btt


22 posted on 05/16/2008 7:05:59 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: saganite

Bruce Ramsey is an editorial writer for the Seattle Times.

That, in itself, tells you why the ST is so far to the left.

They should be ashamed to have him on the staff. However, there is an opening at “Dur Sturmer.” Seems Joseph Goebbels isn’t available right now.


23 posted on 05/16/2008 7:31:02 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: mojito

The article just proves how flawed this thinking is. If the peaceniks think that Hitler was “reasonable” until 1939, then any present or future madman will be considered “reasonable” as well. The peaceniks have no standard with which to estimate a threat. All they have is the vain hope that the next Hitler will be “reasonable.” They think it is unreasonable to even try to conisder whether a threat is real — just ignore the evidence and hope for the best.


24 posted on 05/16/2008 8:00:00 PM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: mojito

It would take a Democrat to be able to justify national leaders meeting to carve a piece out of a nation not present.


25 posted on 05/16/2008 9:07:24 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Obama: "America is the greatest country on earth, help me change America.")
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To: mojito

I wonder if Bruce fantasizes about shooting the von Trapp family or just hanging them?


26 posted on 05/16/2008 11:05:42 PM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin 1936. Olympics for murdering regimes. Beijing 2008.)
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To: mojito
Related thread:

Obama an appeaser? How dare you....by Mark Steyn

27 posted on 05/17/2008 10:42:38 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (No Burkas for my Grandaughters!)
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