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Working classes are less intelligent, says evolution expert

Posted on 05/22/2008 3:07:07 PM PDT by GourmetDan

WORKING-CLASS students have lower IQs than those from wealthier backgrounds and should not be expected to win places at top universities, an academic has claimed. Bruce Charlton, an evolutionary psychiatrist at Newcastle University, has written a paper asserting the reason why fewer students from poor families are admitted to Oxford or Cambridge is not because of social prejudice, but lack of ability.

He suggests that low numbers of working-class students at elite universities is the "natural outcome" of "substantial" IQ differences between classes.... His claims could trigger an outcry similar to that faced by the Nobel prize-winning geneticist James Watson, who was forced to apologise after claiming that African and Caribbean workers were "demonstrably less able" than white ones.

However, Dr Charlton argues it is precisely the fear of creating controversy that prevents other academics taking the same line.

He said: "That is why such obvious scientific truths have not so far been stated clearly, or have actually been denied.

"(This theory is] accepted among those who know and understand the research."


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: academia; creation; evolution; iq; missinglink; philosophy; science; writtenbyemilypykett
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1 posted on 05/22/2008 3:07:09 PM PDT by GourmetDan
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To: GourmetDan

Reeks of eugenics.


2 posted on 05/22/2008 3:08:30 PM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: GourmetDan
"(This theory is] accepted among those who know and understand the research."

Elitism: only fathomed by those who believe in it."

That makes it a religion, and a pretty rotten one.

3 posted on 05/22/2008 3:09:17 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (The road to hell is paved with euphemisms.)
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To: GourmetDan

You need to see the movie Idiocracy.


4 posted on 05/22/2008 3:12:44 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
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To: MinorityRepublican

Ahh yes. ASS. The movie.


5 posted on 05/22/2008 3:13:45 PM PDT by domenad (In all things, in all ways, at all times, let honor guide me.)
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To: Retired Greyhound
"Reeks of eugenics."

Naturally. It's inherent in the theory.

What I found interesting is that this is 'accepted by those who know and understand the research', yet these same people are not willing to say so.

Apparently evolutionists all know this but are keeping quiet about it.

6 posted on 05/22/2008 3:13:49 PM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: GourmetDan

“If you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?”


7 posted on 05/22/2008 3:15:30 PM PDT by Max in Utah (A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.)
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To: GourmetDan

Source? Links?


8 posted on 05/22/2008 3:15:40 PM PDT by workerbee (Ladies do not start fights, but they can finish them.)
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To: GourmetDan

Big deal. Every society needs its blue-collar workers, its service industry people. They’re the backbone of any culture, no matter when or where.


9 posted on 05/22/2008 3:15:54 PM PDT by ktscarlett66 (Face it girls....I'm older and I have more insurance....)
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To: GourmetDan

The issue here is the confusion of cause and effect. It’s not that lower and working class people have lower IQ’s inherently. It’s that IQ limits one’s prospects in life. People with lower intellect tend to end up not making as much money as people who are smarter, nor managing it as well. Ted Kennedy is an exception to the rule, of course.


10 posted on 05/22/2008 3:16:28 PM PDT by Hardastarboard (I have Zero Tolerance for Zero Tolerance policies.)
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To: GourmetDan
The higher up the cherry tree the sweeter grows the cherry.

11 posted on 05/22/2008 3:17:35 PM PDT by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: GourmetDan

Hm. So, since the Democrats market themselves as “The Party Of The Working Class®,” doesn’t this study mean that they’re the party of dumb people?


12 posted on 05/22/2008 3:18:01 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: ktscarlett66

I take great pride in my blue collar heritage.


13 posted on 05/22/2008 3:18:02 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Voting CONSERVATIVE in memory of 5 children killed by illegals 2/17/08 and 2/19/ 08)
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To: GourmetDan
Bruce Carlton is a psychologist

His bio ...

Education:
Backwell Primary School & Backwell Comprehensive School, Somerset, England.
MBBS Honours : 1982 University of Newcastle upon Tyne MD : 1988 University of Newcastle upon Tyne - Neuroendocrine correlates of depression MA (English) : 1989 University of Durham - The literature of Alasdair Gray

.

.

No Oxford or Cambridge. I guess he's not really smart enough to be taken seriously.

14 posted on 05/22/2008 3:18:55 PM PDT by Sgt_Schultze
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To: Retired Greyhound
A evolutionary psychologist? In other words a psychologist who thinks he knows and understands Biology and evolution.

Humans are a very young and a very homogeneous population. If there were a gene that unambiguously conferred greater intelligence without any associated cost, why would it not reach 100% penetrance in the population?

Typical Brit “Shakespeare didn't write any plays because he was a bloody commoner” elitism as well.

In Societies with entrenched social stratification there is little upward mobility and a great tendency to justify this based upon anything and everything. Here in the U.S.A. the ‘lower classes’ produce hard working and highly intelligent individuals who become billionaires.

15 posted on 05/22/2008 3:19:52 PM PDT by allmendream (Life begins at the moment of contraception. ;))
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To: Max in Utah
“If you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?”

Hey, I'll have you know I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left.

So there. ;-)

16 posted on 05/22/2008 3:20:07 PM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: GourmetDan
http://news.scotsman.com/education/Working-classes-are-less-.4108730.jp
17 posted on 05/22/2008 3:20:13 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: GourmetDan
"This theory is accepted among those who know and understand the research." LOL - What du heck duz dat meen, I dont git it.
18 posted on 05/22/2008 3:21:39 PM PDT by SF Republican
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To: Retired Greyhound

“Reeks of eugenics.”

Yep.

IQ tests are bogus and the well kept secret is that all of us have exactly the same IQ.


19 posted on 05/22/2008 3:22:22 PM PDT by EEDUDE
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To: workerbee
"Source? Links?"

Oops, sorry. Obviously my lower-class IQ workin there.

http://news.scotsman.com/uk/Working-classes-are-less-.4108730.jp

20 posted on 05/22/2008 3:22:22 PM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: GourmetDan
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard

Analyse this - Sophocles

21 posted on 05/22/2008 3:22:33 PM PDT by shineon
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To: shineon

I like the post better about the Elephant that could paint.


22 posted on 05/22/2008 3:23:37 PM PDT by shineon
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To: GourmetDan
"Bruce Charlton, an evolutionary psychiatrist at Newcastle University, has written a paper asserting the reason why fewer students from poor families are admitted to Oxford or Cambridge is not because of social prejudice, but lack of ability."

Mr. Charlton needs to add an "e" to his name and change it to charleton, because he is one. Anybody familiar with the gaussian distribution of intelligence knows that he is full of it.

23 posted on 05/22/2008 3:24:27 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: GourmetDan

This is from the UK. In the US, you can be a blithering idiot and gain admission to Harvard or Yale, as long as you’re from the right family. (Can you say JFK, Jr?) On the other hand, a Harvard diploma isn’t the only ticket to a successful life in the US. Plenty of blue-collar background people graduate from State Universities and become quite successful. I’m one of them.


24 posted on 05/22/2008 3:25:14 PM PDT by CholeraJoe (Jihad is all fun and games until a predator turns you into a greasy glop.)
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To: GourmetDan

Unfortunately, there are significant differences between the races as far as IQ is concerned. That is not racism, idiocracy or whatever someone wants to call it - it is fact. When a group suppresses factual information for the sake of political correctness, the chance to correct the problem is profoundly diminished. I have a problem with the author’s definition of groups and have seen no data on this but I admit it may exist. I would like the author to produce the hard numbers for review. The best book on this is The Bell Curve which was maligned when first published but which now is widely accepted by people who know but are afraid to speak. Nature/nurture accounts for a 60/40 etiologic split but others flip the numbers. Regardless, the part nurture plays is enormous and can be influenced by parents. Lets stop lying and get to work to help our fellow man!


25 posted on 05/22/2008 3:25:51 PM PDT by AZFolks
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To: allmendream
"In Societies with entrenched social stratification there is little upward mobility and a great tendency to justify this based upon anything and everything."

"He said: "That is why such obvious scientific truths have not so far been stated clearly, or have actually been denied."

"(This theory is] accepted among those who know and understand the research."

26 posted on 05/22/2008 3:28:41 PM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: Hardastarboard

“Ted Kennedy is an exception to the rule, of course.”
John Kerry makes Teddy look like a genius!


27 posted on 05/22/2008 3:29:23 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ("Don't touch that thing")
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To: GourmetDan

Gee, could it be that kids from working-class families simply can’t afford to go to “elite” universities (unless they are acedemic or sports superstars, that is)?

It’s like the old statistics problem - people with degrees from Harvard have a higher average starting salary than people with degrees from your average state university. There are many reasons for this, but the main one is that many of the Harvard kids already have staff positions waiting for them in daddy’s company, while the state u kids generally start closer to the bottom.


28 posted on 05/22/2008 3:29:53 PM PDT by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Nope. Not gonna do it.)
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To: AZFolks
"Unfortunately, there are significant differences between the races as far as IQ is concerned."

Only a problem if IQ is an empirical measure of worth.

Wisdom is far superior to IQ.

29 posted on 05/22/2008 3:30:38 PM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: GourmetDan

What is really pathetic in all this I.Q./Higher Education(sic)
“work with your brains and not your hands” rhetoric, and the accompanying social shame that is supposed to be your
“lot” is you don’t “do well” in school, is that at bottom it is all nothing more than very agressive propaganda for our already discredited universities. And it all comes down to MONEY, and the cache that is assumed to inhere to the huge amounts it takes to “get in” and the supposed huge amounts you’ll be making once you go through “their programs”. Tell it to Frank Lloyd Wright, who never went to Architecture school, or to Mies van der Rohe, who started his work life at the age of 12 on construction sites carrying bricks and mortar to the tradesman building houses and office buildings.


30 posted on 05/22/2008 3:32:50 PM PDT by supremedoctrine ("Time is the school in which we learn that time is the fire in which we burn"--Delmore Schwartz)
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To: GourmetDan

31 posted on 05/22/2008 3:33:09 PM PDT by 50sDad (OBAMA: In your heart you know he's Wright.)
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To: 50sDad

On the average, smart people earn more money than dumb people. What a shock!


32 posted on 05/22/2008 3:35:16 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (All of this has happened before, and will happen again!)
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To: GourmetDan

Rah, rah, rah, we're going to smash the oiks! Ha ha ha ha ha!

33 posted on 05/22/2008 3:36:02 PM PDT by x
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To: GourmetDan
Telling the truth is always dangerous.

To deny there are statistical IQ differences between to classes or races is the same as admiring the emperor's clothes.

34 posted on 05/22/2008 3:36:23 PM PDT by Doodle
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To: GourmetDan

One great thing about the USA is the opportunity for upward mobility. There are many, many examples of families where the grandparents may not have finished high school, the parents were blue-collar high school graduates and the children graduated from college.


35 posted on 05/22/2008 3:37:24 PM PDT by bluegirl
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To: GourmetDan
I know and understand the research and have yet to see any who arrived at the author's conclusions without confusing cause and effect,properly controlling for environmental factors, or explaining why an unambiguously better “smart” gene wouldn't reach 100% in the human population.
36 posted on 05/22/2008 3:37:55 PM PDT by allmendream (Life begins at the moment of contraception. ;))
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To: GourmetDan

INTREP - L’Chaim


37 posted on 05/22/2008 3:38:20 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: AZFolks

“The best book on this is The Bell Curve...”

Read it and believe it. If somebody reads it entirely, it is difficult to refute.

It proved the English professor’s point some time back.

And the point is that smart people earn more money, live better, birth smart people who repeat.

And that dumb people birth dumb people, who earn less money, who live less well.

Etc. Oh yeah, all races do not have the same mean and median IQs.


38 posted on 05/22/2008 3:38:53 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: GourmetDan

This puke is full of dung.


39 posted on 05/22/2008 3:39:59 PM PDT by Lion Den Dan
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To: GourmetDan

I guess he also needs to define “working class” ... isn’t anyone who works for a living considered working class people? From a million dollar a year CEO to say a fast food worker is working for a living hence “working class”. Maybe people like him live off (parasite comes to mind) the working class so he can do his idiotic studies .....


40 posted on 05/22/2008 3:40:13 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("I Believe In The Law Until It Interferes With Justice")
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To: GourmetDan

My collar is brown, but then I wash my shirt.


41 posted on 05/22/2008 3:40:24 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (I'll pray for celebrities as soon as they start praying for me!)
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To: allmendream
"I know and understand the research and have yet to see any who arrived at the author's conclusions without confusing cause and effect,properly controlling for environmental factors, or explaining why an unambiguously better “smart” gene wouldn't reach 100% in the human population."

I would suggest that you contact Dr. Charlton.

It looks like he understands some things and knows some people that you may not.

42 posted on 05/22/2008 3:41:01 PM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: AZFolks
Identical twin studies show a strong correlation in IQ. In cases where there is a significant mismatch (> 5 pts), the twin with the lower IQ was found to have a lower birth weight or other organic damage. A shared placenta where the lower birth weight twin received the 2nd hand blood from the first twin is a common finding.

The new book from Peter D'Adamo titled "The Genotype Diet" puts a little light on the topic of epigenetics. There is much that can influence the development of a child between conception and birth. Nutrition and hormone levels in the mother can have significant influence. The initial genetic endowment from our parents is just a starting point.

43 posted on 05/22/2008 3:41:09 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Retired Greyhound

Damn spooky...my very first thought...

But I’m just a prole after all...not intelligent enough to link such things...

*drool*

*thud*


44 posted on 05/22/2008 3:42:49 PM PDT by Crim (Dont frak with the Zeitgeist....http://falconparty.com/)
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To: GourmetDan
IF he's going to make such a statement, he must include the lower classes of the negro persuasion or else the study is racist. However, limiting it to whites, he may gain acceptance from liberals who despise the working class.
45 posted on 05/22/2008 3:42:53 PM PDT by isrul (Help make every day, "Disrespect a muzzie day.")
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To: MinorityRepublican
You need to see the movie Idiocracy.

Agree. Every Freeper needs to see the movie, "Idiocracy".

46 posted on 05/22/2008 3:43:21 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - Vote against the dem party)
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

Yes, I don’t really get why this is such a bad thing to say? If smarter people tend to earn more money on average then it only stands to reason that the rich will have higher than average IQ’s. That doesn’t mean that people from working class families are stupid or bad, and it doesn’t mean rich people are always smart, it just means that a job as a doctor pays more than a job as a plumber so people who become doctors are more likely to end up wealthy and people who become plumbers are more likely to end up working class. That seems like a normal and healthy situation to me.


47 posted on 05/22/2008 3:43:42 PM PDT by CatherinePPP
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To: allmendream

I have a theory that IQ depends on if a mother holds her baby facing her so she can look in the baby’s eyes when she talks to him; or, if she holds her baby facing outward and never makes eye contact with him.


48 posted on 05/22/2008 3:43:47 PM PDT by donna ("I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth." - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: GourmetDan

Ah...subjective advocacy science for us, to teach us to better respect our most honorable business and political leaders.

BTW, oil prices continue to generally rise, while the dollar falls. May the revenues—and consequently, the seeds—of our henpecked, enemy-appeasing, sexually confused masters dry up for ever and ever. May their preferred communist slaves in east Asia someday rule over them and do whatever is necessary to crush their vanities into humilities. LOL!

[Nonpolitical politics is not pretty, but that’s what is needed to correct the situation.]


49 posted on 05/22/2008 3:43:50 PM PDT by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote)
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To: cripplecreek

Me too, me too. I’m very proud of my family, of all the hardworking, honest men and women on both sides. My father worked hard all his life and if all he’d had to leave me was his good name, I’d still have been very, very fortunate.


50 posted on 05/22/2008 3:45:02 PM PDT by ktscarlett66 (Face it girls....I'm older and I have more insurance....)
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