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America in Ashes?--On the trail of al-Qaeda's nuclear jihad.
FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | May 23, 2008 | Christopher S. Carson

Posted on 05/23/2008 5:36:29 AM PDT by SJackson

The latest audio message from al-Qaeda, reportedly from Osama bin Laden himself, is only the most recent confirmation that the jihadist threat to the West remains real and deadly serious. But the fact that it could take the form of nuclear terrorism should be most worrying to citizens and policy makers alike.

Where a nuclear attack once may have been beyond the capacities of stateless terrorists, that is no longer the case. One need only consider Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM), mastermind of 9/11 and chief operating officer of al-Qaeda, who revealed under intensive interrogation -- including the much-maligned tactic of waterboarding -- that a nuclear attack against the United States was a top priority for al-Qaeda.

According to the New York Daily News and its sources, the captive KSM told his interrogators that Osama bin Laden was planning a “nuclear hell storm” in America. Normally such a lurid claim would be disbelieved by our “inside-the-box” intelligence officers, but KSM’s recovered laptop had corroborating details.

The agents learned that the chain of command for this new operation went simply: bin Laden, his terrorist doctor Ayman al-Zawahiri, a mysterious scientist named “Dr. X,” and an operational coordinator. The scientist turned out to be Dr. A.Q. Khan, the founder of Pakistan’s atomic bomb, national hero, and nuke material proliferator extraordinaire. The operations ringleader was known as “Jafer the Pilot” (Jaffer al-Tayyar). This ID was corroborated by former al-Qaeda No. 3 Abu Zubaydah when he himself was waterboarded.

Dr. Khan’s input was important: One month before 9/11, according to The Washington Post, bin Laden and his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, met around a blazing campfire with Pakistani scientists from an A.Q. Khan-affiliated group called Umma Tameer-E-Nau, to discuss how al-Qaeda could build a nuclear device themselves and ship it to a target.

The night meeting went well. 'Jafer the Pilot" is the nom de guerre of U.S. citizen Adnan el-Shukrijumah. Young, intelligent, fluent in multiple languages and a trained jet pilot who had apparently been in flight schools with Mohammed Atta, Shukrijumah had studied and worked with other jihadis at the 5-megawatt nuclear reactor at McMaster University in Canada. But one day all the terrorists disappeared from campus forever.

John Loftus of WABC news reported on November 7, 2003, that in the immediate wake of Shukrijumah and his fellow travelers’ disappearance, 180 pounds of uranium ended up “missing” from the reactor. Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir, who interviewed Osama bin Laden in the wake of 9/11, reported bin Laden saying that one of the founders of al-Qaeda, Anas el-Liby, had helped the Pilot haul out the stash of uranium.

McMaster U. has always insisted that no material was ever missing from the reactor, but instead claims that low-grade radiological material did turn up missing from their pharmacological/medical labs at the time. Paul Williams, author of The Day of Islam, published the Loftus-Mir assertions in his book and elsewhere. For his trouble, he was promptly sued by the University for $4,000,000. The suit is still pending.

But the Pilot and his atomically-inclined friends had not gone to live in a cave somewhere in Waziristan like their bosses had. Shukrijumah had much work to do for his “American Hiroshima” plan, which would detonate actual nuclear bombs in seven American cities at once. Paul Williams surmises that Osama bin Laden’s increasingly messianic pronouncements over the airwaves are psychologically tied up with his expectations of the nuclear destruction of the Great Satan—with bin Laden himself as the prophesied Mahdi, the fiery culmination of 1,600 years of Islamic history.

Whatever pangs of conscience remaining to the plotters as they contemplated burning millions of women and children alive was thoroughly assuaged by bin Laden’s diplomacy. The supremo had duly arranged for a compliant mullah to issue a fatwa, which expressly authorized the destruction of the United States of American in clouds of atomic ash. Entitled “A Treatise on the Legal Status of Using Weapons of Mass Destruction Against Infidels,” and dated May 2003, this fatwa can be read online by all the faithful. FBI chief Robert Mueller has also said that there is a “clear intent” by al-Qaeda to acquire and use nuclear weapons against the United States. As far back as 1993, said Mueller, Osama bin Laden had attempted to buy uranium from a source in the Sudan. Why should we expect him to stop in the last 15 years?

One thing is certain: homicidal doctor Ayman al-Zawahiri's made a decision when KSM was captured: Cancel that planned mass cyanide gas attack in the New York subway system. He told the operational plotters to stand down because "we have something better in mind,” which would presumably suck up all the resources then available to him. What would be “better” than a mass cyanide attack in a confined urban rush-hour space? There is only one thing more murderous.

Unfortunately, even in 2004, the American intelligence services tasked with protecting the country seemed about as prepared for the Pilot as they were for the Hamburg Cell of 9/11. One full year after KSM spilled his guts in a secret CIA prison in Eastern Europe, Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director John Mueller issued a joint press conference that everyone should be on the lookout for five exceedingly dangerous terrorists. Adnan al-Shukrijumah, the Pilot, was first on the list. Director Mueller called him the “Next Mohammed Atta.” The American Hiroshima plan was not specifically mentioned, presumably to prevent panic in the country.

It turns out that the Pilot himself need not have been panicked. Several days after the press conference naming Shukrijumah, a certain Samuel Mac, the manager of a Denny’s restaurant in Avon, Colorado, became uneasy as he served two “demanding, rude and obnoxious” patrons at his restaurant. One of them looked, for all the world, like the guy he remembered was in the Ashcroft-Mueller press conference’s first poster: Adnan the Pilot. The other one, wolfing down a health-conscious chicken sandwich and a salad, looked like the guy the FBI said was Abderraouf Jdey, the head of al-Qaeda’s cell in Toronto. They said they were traveling cross-country.

From behind his counter, Mr. Mac looked at these patrons again. He figured at least Washington, D.C., would have an FBI office, so he called there. The agent who answered the phone was uninterested and referred him to the Denver office. Calling this number, Mr. Mac was left with an endless loop of voice mail. The purported al-Qaeda officials eventually strolled out of the restaurant and took off. Five hours later an agent from the Denver field office called back, took a few perfunctory notes, and said he’d pass the info along. Mr. Mac thoughtfully preserved the plates and utensils the men had eaten with, but no one ever bothered to come over and collect them for DNA evidence, or interviewed any of the restaurant’s employees. So much for the national “Be on the Lookout” alert.

The Pilot quickly resurfaced in Waziristan province, Pakistan, home of Osama and Dr. Zawahiri. In April 2004, according to Paul Williams’ sources in the FBI, where Williams had worked as a consultant, this turned out to be a “pivotal planning session” for the American Hiroshima plot, much as Kuala Lumpur in 2000 was the final planning session for the 9/11 plot. Mohammed Babar, an indicted terrorist, was also present. (Babar’s Islamic Thinkers Society had held placards while demonstrating outside the Israeli consulate in 2006, helpfully saying, “The Mushroom Cloud is On Its Way.”)

Thus funded and instructed, the Pilot flew to Honduras the next month, where he met with jefes of the violent street gang MS-13 (Mara Salvatruchas) and was noticed by the café owner, who had seen newspaper pictures of that Ashcroft-Mueller press conference. The Honduran security ministry confirmed Shukrijumah’s presence there, and also the Pilot’s multitude of calls then to France, the USA, and Canada.

Why was the Pilot meeting with MS-13 gang leaders? The answer became painfully obvious that summer, when he was seen again in Mexico in late August 2004, near “terrorist alley” in Sonora, the main thoroughfare for illegal aliens into the United States. MS-13 was the Pilot’s new supply chain and courier of nuclear material for the bombs he was setting up.

The Pilot was now moving around at will, with no hindrance, all through Latin America. U.S. intelligence got another too-late break in November, when Sharif al-Masri, an al-Qaeda official working directly with Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, was snatched and questioned by interrogators.

Al-Masri told his American captors that his bosses had arranged for nuclear supplies for bombs to be shipped into Mexico and thus into the USA with the help of the MS-13 street gang. This created a new sense of urgency, because on November 1st, Mexican officials reported that a man looking very similar to Adnan al-Shukrijumah had just stolen and flown off with a Piper PA Pawnee crop duster near Mexicali, destination unknown.

Since 2005, the Pilot has vanished from sight.

While the mainstream media currently mostly ignore this story and the almost certain fact that a nuclear plot is ongoing today, Senator Joseph Lieberman has held at least three separate hearings in 2008 of his Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs on this very subject.

The testimony from experts summoned to these hearings has been grim. Nobody doubts that once terrorists acquire fissile material, which is either Highly Enriched Uranium (HEU) or plutonium, a bomb is within their theoretical capacity and will to make and use. A simple gun-type device, like that used for the atom bomb dropped on Hiroshima, is sufficient to yield a one to ten kiloton explosion.

Al-Qaeda has been increasing its recruitment for nuclear-skilled workers. Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq leader Abu Ayyub al-Masri issued a public call in September 2006 for “people of distinguished skills and high levels of expertise…particularly…nuclear scientists and explosives engineers” to work with al-Qaeda-in-Iraq. The mainstream media and the Democratic officeholders ignored this proclamation, because the counterinsurgency effort in Iraq is supposed to be a “distraction” from the “real” war on terror, which to them presumably would not include a mushroom cloud over Chicago.

The only good news is that terrorists cannot make HEU or plutonium; they have to get it from somewhere else. HEU is not found in nature and has to be juiced up from normal uranium. For that reason, HEU is highly prized on the world’s black markets. How will Adnan Shukrijumah get hold of this HEU (or even plutonium) to assemble into working bombs?

He has a range of options. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has documented 15 incidents of theft and smuggling of small amounts of separated plutonium or highly enriched uranium confirmed by the nations involved. But these 15 cases represent the tip of the iceberg of what has actually occurred. So there is always just approaching the right people and buying it—not an easy task, but not an impossible one either.

Nuclear terror expert Matthew Bunn testified last month that “Nuclear weapons or their essential ingredients exist in hundreds of buildings in dozens of countries, with security measures that range from excellent to appalling – in some cases, no more than a night watchman and a chain-link fence.”

In recent months, shadowy surveillance teams have been reported scoping out secret nuclear weapons facilities in Russia. They probably don’t have to be: In February 2006, Russian citizen Oleg Khinsagov was arrested in Georgia (along with three Georgian accomplices) with some 100 grams of 89 percent enriched HEU, claiming that he had kilograms more available for sale. We can’t know how many thefts that occurred were never detected. Dr. Bunn told Senator Lieberman that “it is a sobering fact that nearly all of the stolen HEU and plutonium that has been seized over the years had never been missed before it was seized.”

The Pilot doesn’t need too much HEU for his seven-city destruction plan. For one “simple” gun-type design HEU bomb, roughly 50 kilograms of HEU would be needed – roughly the size of a six-pack.

The Pilot could also try hitting up a HEU-based research facility, like his old alma mater McMaster University, although McMaster apparently didn’t employ HEU per se. But some 130 research reactors around the world still do use HEU as their fuel.

Or has he already? The Washington Post, right before last Christmas, reported a strange story. Sometime in the night of November 8, 2007, two coordinated teams of armed men attacked the Pelindaba nuclear facility in South Africa, where hundreds of kilograms of weapon-grade highly enriched uranium (HEU) are stored.

One of the teams was chased off by the guards, but the other team of four gunmen disabled the perimeter alarms, went to the emergency control center and shot a worker in the chest. Bleeding out, the worker was still able to sound the first alarm.

He might not have bothered. The attack team then spent 45 minutes inside the perimeter, without anyone harassing them. What they did next is unknown to the public. The team promptly disappeared through the same hole they had cut in the fence. South African officials later arrested three individuals, but soon released them. The South African government has since been close-lipped about what really happened last November, and it has refused earlier U.S. offers to remove the HEU at Pelindaba—if indeed any remains after the attack. We don’t even know how much HEU, if any, was spirited away.

But surely the point is not whether the Pilot hit this specific facility. It is that he could well have—or dozens of others like it. We do know that if a 10 kiloton A-bomb, somewhat smaller than the bomb that obliterated Hiroshima, is set off at ground level in midtown Manhattan, the death toll would be perhaps half a million people. We could expect roughly $1 trillion in direct economic damage from this one bomb alone. Multiply this by seven bombs, and we can expect the wholesale depopulation of America’s cities in fear, incalculable economic devastation, and the end of the country as we currently know it.

Chicago naturally is on the list of targets. According to nuke expert Dr. Graham Allison, the HEU needed to nuke the city is smaller than a football. He writes, “If a bomb were put in the back of a tanker truck, driven downtown, and detonated at the Sears Tower, everything within a third of a mile would vanish. The United Center and all of Grant Park would look like the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. The resulting firestorm and cloud of fallout would reach nearly to U.S. Cellular Field and Wrigley Field.”

The experts are not talking about vague probabilities far into the future. Former Clinton Secretary of Defense William Perry and former Assistant Secretary of Defense Graham Allison are among those who have estimated that chance at more than 50 percent over the next decade. That is, two respected experts in the field believe that the nuclear destruction of one or more American urban centers is more probable than not in the very near future.

Al-Qaeda keeps increasing the number of Americans it publicly dreams of killing in its nuclear hellstorm. In 2002, Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, Osama bin Laden’s former official press spokesman, claimed the right for jihadis “to kill four million Americans.” Just one year later, in his fatwa declaring the use of WMD obligatory, Nasir al-Fahd put the number of Americans that it is permissible to kill without further ado at 10 million souls, roughly 3 million of them children.

Because a nuclear attack would achieve the greatest possible destruction on American soil, there is every reason to think that the terrorists are plotting its execution. The question confronting American policy makers is: Are we prepared to stop this threat before it becomes a terrible reality?


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: alqaeda; alqaida; binladen; elections; globaljihad; iran; iraq; israel; jihad; mohammedanism; nobama; nuclear; nuclearattack; nuclearhellstorm; nukes; obama; terrorattack; terrorism; threatmatrix; ubl; wot
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1 posted on 05/23/2008 5:36:30 AM PDT by SJackson
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

High Volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel. or WOT [War on Terror]

----------------------------

I'll feel much better when President Obama is able to sit down with these fellows around a campfire and talk them out of it. As he's told us familiar with the Muslim world, they'll listen to him.

2 posted on 05/23/2008 5:52:10 AM PDT by SJackson (It is impossible to build a peace process based on blood, Natan Sharansky)
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To: SJackson

The danger is real, and the country is about to elect someone who will make kissy-face with terrorists.


3 posted on 05/23/2008 6:08:56 AM PDT by Leftism is Mentally Deranged
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To: SJackson

My fantasy is that they will agree to meet with him then take him hostage.... and Americans responding to the ransome request with “Fine...keep him!”

I can dream, right?


4 posted on 05/23/2008 6:09:57 AM PDT by SMARTY ('At some point you get tired of swatting flies, and you have to go for the manure heap' Gen. LeMay)
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To: Cindy; milford421; nw_arizona_granny; WestCoastGal; MamaDearest; LucyT; callmejoe; Godzilla; ...

FYI


5 posted on 05/23/2008 6:21:55 AM PDT by Rushmore Rocks
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To: SJackson

Stock up on guns and ammo.

I’m currently working on a book that has at its root this exact scenario. A nuclear device (or devices, haven’t decided yet) is set off inside the US, and our liberal president refuses to react. Civil war within the US begins within days.


6 posted on 05/23/2008 6:25:56 AM PDT by Terabitten (Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets - E-Frat '94. Unity and Pride!)
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To: SJackson
Certainly al-Qaeda has the will to attack the US with nuclear weapons and just doesn't yet have the means. More likely would be attacks using "dirty bombs" conventional explosives laced with radioactive materials that would bring wide spread panic rather than massive destruction.

What al-Qaeda fails to understand is that even a milquetoast President Obama could not simply capitulate to terrorist demands after such an attack and would be compelled by the American people to act decisively. One immediate result of such an attack would be armed citizens (thank God for the 2nd Amendment)defending their homeland by shutting down mosques and Islamic centers and rounding up all Arab nationals for deportation or internment.

7 posted on 05/23/2008 6:28:17 AM PDT by The Great RJ ("Mir we bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: SJackson

You’ve got to hand it to these guys. At least the continue to tell us exactly what they intend to do. How polite.

BUT IS ANYONE LISTENING TO THEM???


8 posted on 05/23/2008 6:31:16 AM PDT by newheart (The Truth? You can't handle the Truth. But He can handle you.)
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To: SJackson
Although the American Hiroshima plot is not news, it bears repeating often so people don't forget.

Three things we must do as a country:

1- Secure the borders, including nuclear detection.
2- Deport known AQ sympathizers, monitor suspected ones.
3- Publicly state the nuclear retribution that will come if such a plan is carried out. Make sure they know that WE WILL DO IT.

9 posted on 05/23/2008 6:33:46 AM PDT by Sender ("Why is it that I can't just eat my waffle?" - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: SJackson

And we are financing the operational planning against ourselves by sending abroad some $700+ billion buying their benefactors’ petroleum products. That part of the world needs to be put on notice that in the event of such an attack, we will retaliate against the same number of countries as bombs detonated on US soil (identify specific Countries). Maybe it would encourage those countries to disable AlQuaida.


10 posted on 05/23/2008 6:36:01 AM PDT by Sgt_Schultze
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To: SJackson

Someone should ask Putin if he can account for every single Russian ICBM because I fear the Chechyans may have stolen a few in the breakup of the former USSR.
If this is so then it looks like they can onsell them to
Al-Quiada.


11 posted on 05/23/2008 6:38:45 AM PDT by cavador ("Kevin 07- A man of Steel "-G.W Bush 3/30/08)
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...shutting down mosques and Islamic centers and rounding up all Arab nationals for deportation or internment

The first response I expect from law enforcement and from the feds is to protect all mosques and Muslims in the US and to threaten any citizens with instant death if they so much as yell harsh words at them.

With Obama at the wheel, I further expect grovelling to Arab nations over how we deserved this and how we will never again trouble them.

12 posted on 05/23/2008 6:39:01 AM PDT by Sender ("Why is it that I can't just eat my waffle?" - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: Sender

and Tom Clancy let them change the bad guys in The Sum of All Fears. Obama would do the same, except this time it’s real.


13 posted on 05/23/2008 6:47:32 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Leftism is Mentally Deranged

President Obama will say the the bad bad guys....... Kumbaya, Kumbaya. Kumbaya, kumbaya. Please lets sit down and talk nicely with each other. You want American’s to be like you. Ok I am already a Muslim. Well that Christan thing was just to get elected. Now my goal is to make the USA a Islamic Sharia Law country. We shall bow to Mecca as I wrote in my book “The Audacity of Hope” The sweetest sound in the Morning is the Islamic call to prayer” Allah Akbar!

Yes, That will be what Obama says and does to appease the Muslims after the bomb.


14 posted on 05/23/2008 7:08:34 AM PDT by ncfool (Savage said that Islam is a Peaceful religion. Your very peaceful after they slit your throat!)
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To: JesusBmyGod

ping...worth reading.


15 posted on 05/23/2008 7:10:39 AM PDT by highimpact (Abortion - [n]: human sacrifice at the altar of convenience.)
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To: SJackson

Of course, the Democrats pooh-pooh all this. To them, the real enemies are U.S. corporations and “global warming”.


16 posted on 05/23/2008 7:23:10 AM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: Sender
“Publicly state the nuclear retribution that will come...”

That retribution must be against targets these muslims hold dear; Mecca, Medina, Qom, and the capitals of the states aiding the jihad: Riyadh, Tehran, and Damascus! Otherwise they won't care.

17 posted on 05/23/2008 7:27:53 AM PDT by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( The Constitution needs No interpreting, only APPLICATION!)
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To: ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY
I agree. Tell them that if we can't identify a specific country responsible, we'll take out some places dear to terrorists in general.

In any case, missiles will fly if you do this. Cities over there will disappear if you do this. Let the people in those cities know too. Maybe some right-thinking housewife will bonk Ahmed over the head with a frying pan to prevent certain destruction. Maybe some affected residents will tip off authorities to the perps to prevent certain destruction. They have to know that we mean it.

18 posted on 05/23/2008 7:35:00 AM PDT by Sender ("Why is it that I can't just eat my waffle?" - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: SJackson

Not easy to get excited about some 10 kt devices when the country has been under threat of thousands of 20 mt devices for half a century.


19 posted on 05/23/2008 7:39:23 AM PDT by RightWhale (You are reading this now)
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To: Squantos; Travis McGee; Jeff Head
Samuel Mac, the manager of a Denny’s restaurant in Avon, Colorado, became uneasy as he served two “demanding, rude and obnoxious” patrons at his restaurant. One of them looked, for all the world, like the guy he remembered was in the Ashcroft-Mueller press conference’s first poster: Adnan the Pilot. The other one, wolfing down a health-conscious chicken sandwich and a salad, looked like the guy the FBI said was Abderraouf Jdey, the head of al-Qaeda’s cell in Toronto. They said they were traveling cross-country.

From behind his counter, Mr. Mac looked at these patrons again. He figured at least Washington, D.C., would have an FBI office, so he called there. The agent who answered the phone was uninterested and referred him to the Denver office. Calling this number, Mr. Mac was left with an endless loop of voice mail. The purported al-Qaeda officials eventually strolled out of the restaurant and took off. Five hours later an agent from the Denver field office called back, took a few perfunctory notes, and said he’d pass the info along. Mr. Mac thoughtfully preserved the plates and utensils the men had eaten with, but no one ever bothered to come over and collect them for DNA evidence, or interviewed any of the restaurant’s employees. So much for the national “Be on the Lookout” alert.

We are soooo screwed.

L

20 posted on 05/23/2008 7:42:27 AM PDT by Lurker (Islam is an insane death cult. Any other aspects are PR, to get them within throat-cutting range.)
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To: RightWhale

“Not easy to get excited about...”

I hope you’re kidding. Nuclear war is far more likely NOW than it ever was with the Soviets. The Soviets were at least rational men who loved their families and were deterred by the guarantee of massive retaliation. It’s not so with our current enemy!


21 posted on 05/23/2008 7:52:21 AM PDT by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( The Constitution needs No interpreting, only APPLICATION!)
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To: ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY

I agree with you. Fear is the only thing that will, perhaps, hold them at bay. I don’t anticipate that President Pussbag would likely rile “Cousin Bandar” and the other jihad funders with such a pointed statement. Neither would our three main presidential candidates, none of whom have ever addressed this issue.

I am certain that, when this happens, I will be incinerated at the keyboard from which I address you now. I hope that those of you who are left are able to do whatever is necessary to carry on and keep the nation together, no matter what measures need to be taken.


22 posted on 05/23/2008 8:03:51 AM PDT by CletusVanDamme ("Made it Ma!!! Top of the world!!!")
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To: CletusVanDamme
“...when this happens, I will be incinerated at the keyboard from which I address you now.”

Probably not, if you're in Massachusetts. These guys want to do the most damage they can to infrastructure and society. If they've got only seven bombs, my guess is they'll go after our major ports, financial centers, and government in order to create the most chaos possible. Cities like New York, Washington DC, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Houston. With three more they might go after Dallas, Atlanta, and Miami.

23 posted on 05/23/2008 8:17:31 AM PDT by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( The Constitution needs No interpreting, only APPLICATION!)
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To: cavador

Yep, and with the borders wide open importing tankers full of drugs daily how can we stop it? They don’t care about mutual destruction, I fear Russia will also help them, then plan to march into the mideast after the nuclear cloud dissipates.


24 posted on 05/23/2008 8:27:32 AM PDT by aeonspromise
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To: Sender
“In any case, missiles will fly if you do this.”

I understand your point but this is exactly what they want, it allows them to start their Holy War. I am not saying we shouldn't do this but a lot of factors need to be considered.

1) We are going to need lots and lots of oil. Once those missiles fly expect the price of oil to go through the roof.

2) Be prepared for secondary attacks in the US and US companies around the world.

3) It's now World War 3 or 4 (depending on what you think of the Cold War), it it won't end anytime soon. Something like this happens and China will look to take on Taiwan, if NK is capable they will go after SK and smaller regional wars will flare up in South America, Africa and South East Asia.

25 posted on 05/23/2008 8:31:26 AM PDT by A Texan (Oderint dum metuant)
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To: The Great RJ

you’re not banned yet for saying that? (Not that I disagree at ALL by the way).

I’m just surprised someone hasn’t removed the comment yet.


26 posted on 05/23/2008 8:52:42 AM PDT by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Please visit for latest on DPRK/Russia/China/et al.)
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To: RightWhale
Not easy to get excited about some 10 kt devices when the country has been under threat of thousands of 20 mt devices for half a century.

To some extent you're correct. Most people, especially Liberals view this situation in precisely this way. However, having lived through and been a part of fighting the Cold War - there is a distinct difference that many people can't seem to recognize.

That being the fact that the Russians weren't planning on being vaporized any more than we were. We had a mutual threat against each other that for the most part prevented the big nuclear exchange everyone expected.

The Russians are SANE people, as are Americans.

Islamic jihadists are NOT sane. They don't CARE about their people, their cities, they only care how they get "to Heaven". Therefore they will stop at nothing to accomplish this crime against humanity.

While a 10kt device is certainly not as destructive as a 20 mt device, there will be many, many dead, wounded and many more in the days to follow such an attack.

Most Americans will come together to help those killed. Some might do as others have suggested and "attack mosques" or whatever, but I don't think that ANY American really believes that you can blame every individual of a certain race, or religion for the acts of some of the more crazy people in their societies.

American WILL retaliate and it won't be anything like Afghanistan either. Nothing like it.
27 posted on 05/23/2008 9:03:10 AM PDT by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Please visit for latest on DPRK/Russia/China/et al.)
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To: ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY

Can we add Berkeley to their list?


28 posted on 05/23/2008 9:17:17 AM PDT by BBell
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To: Rick.Donaldson

bump


29 posted on 05/23/2008 9:26:44 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Party ahead of principles; eventually you'll be selling out anything to anyone for the right price.)
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To: Lurker

I would suggest that a terrorist that has evaded capture this long will not draw such attention too themselves in a cafe etc .........just me of course and my opinion . They are idiots yet they ain’t too be taken lightly !

But all in all I agree with you 100% !!

We are on our own IMO.

Stay safe !


30 posted on 05/23/2008 11:04:02 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: SJackson
Still reading, but this is important enough to point out -

The operations ringleader was known as “Jafer the Pilot” (Jaffer al-Tayyar). This ID was corroborated by former al-Qaeda No. 3 Abu Zubaydah when he himself was waterboarded.

PROOF WATERBOARDING WORKS!!

31 posted on 05/23/2008 11:16:54 AM PDT by airborne (LETS GO PENS!!! LETS GO PENS!!! LETS GO PENS!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!)
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To: SJackson

32 posted on 05/23/2008 11:46:41 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: Rushmore Rocks

Thanks for the ping RR.


33 posted on 05/23/2008 8:15:02 PM PDT by Oorang (Tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people - Alex Kozinski)
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To: SJackson; Rushmore Rocks
FYI

Adnan's brother has a MySpace page, it has recently been set to private:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=83792461

Adnan's father also has a MySpace page. The most recent login was 5/21/08 although Adnan's father has been dead for a few years: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=139423482

And, or course, to keep it all in the family, I believe this page belongs to Adnan's sister:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=90937738

34 posted on 05/23/2008 8:40:50 PM PDT by Oorang (Tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people - Alex Kozinski)
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To: SJackson

AQ wants to destroy America. How else do you do that? Blow up three or more of our cities and that should do it. AQ has the money to develop or buy nukes. This really could happen.

What should we do to stop them? Oh, I know. Let’s scan our shoes at airports. That should do it.


35 posted on 05/23/2008 9:15:34 PM PDT by garjog (Used to be liberals were just people to disagree with. Now they are a threat to our existence.)
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To: garjog
What should we do to stop them? Oh, I know. Let’s scan our shoes at airports. That should do it.

We could always vote obama.

36 posted on 05/23/2008 10:17:38 PM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: Oorang

Now that is interesting. Thanks for posting it...didn’t even think of that.


37 posted on 05/24/2008 4:14:19 AM PDT by milford421 (U.N. OUT OF U.S.)
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To: Rushmore Rocks; nw_arizona_granny; Oorang

NW_Arizona_Granny has posted 3 very relevant articles that would seem to be connecting: the lastest worry article from DHS regarding small aircraft, the nuclear incident in Sweden and the filter removal at nuke plant in Idaho.


38 posted on 05/24/2008 4:16:45 AM PDT by milford421 (U.N. OUT OF U.S.)
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To: Rushmore Rocks

Thanks for the ping to this Rushmore


39 posted on 05/24/2008 4:17:18 AM PDT by milford421 (U.N. OUT OF U.S.)
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To: All

“Because a nuclear attack would achieve the greatest possible destruction on American soil, there is every reason to think that the terrorists are plotting its execution. The question confronting American policy makers is: Are we prepared to stop this threat before it becomes a terrible reality?”

Ask yourselves — who is more likely to do everything possible to prevent this: McCain or Obama, and vote accordingly. The stakes in this election are higher than they have ever been.


40 posted on 05/24/2008 7:10:39 AM PDT by Clairity
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To: SMARTY

Your fantasy should be more like the August 2001 meeting of US Ambassador April Glaspie with Saddam Hussein-
I believe Saddam launched his invasion of Kuwait 3 days later, just after April Glaspie had left Iraq for a vacation to celebrate the success of her unconditional direct talks


41 posted on 05/24/2008 7:11:00 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY

Riyahd?

Never happen. Thousands of Americans and othe foreign nationals live and work there. Disingenuous Saudi Royals will have plenty of plausible deniability. Not to mention the world economy would instantly tank due to the contamination of the Gulf oil fields.

Of course, this is likely to happen anyway in the aftermath of panic following any nuc attack on any American city. Panic that could includee kneejerk secondary attacks or invasions by North Korea against South Korea and missile attacks on Japan.


42 posted on 05/24/2008 7:16:01 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY

I forgot to mention possible secondary war in India vs Pakistan which is also on hair trigger, would go to hight laret and possible miscalculation war- balance could tip in matter of hours, expecially in dearth of US diplomacy to ease situation.


43 posted on 05/24/2008 7:17:58 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: SJackson

“It turns out that the Pilot himself need not have been panicked. Several days after the press conference naming Shukrijumah, a certain Samuel Mac, the manager of a Denny’s restaurant in Avon, Colorado, became uneasy as he served two “demanding, rude and obnoxious” patrons at his restaurant. One of them looked, for all the world, like the guy he remembered was in the Ashcroft-Mueller press conference’s first poster: Adnan the Pilot. The other one, wolfing down a health-conscious chicken sandwich and a salad, looked like the guy the FBI said was Abderraouf Jdey, the head of al-Qaeda’s cell in Toronto. They said they were traveling cross-country.

From behind his counter, Mr. Mac looked at these patrons again. He figured at least Washington, D.C., would have an FBI office, so he called there. The agent who answered the phone was uninterested and referred him to the Denver office. Calling this number, Mr. Mac was left with an endless loop of voice mail. The purported al-Qaeda officials eventually strolled out of the restaurant and took off. Five hours later an agent from the Denver field office called back, took a few perfunctory notes, and said he’d pass the info along. Mr. Mac thoughtfully preserved the plates and utensils the men had eaten with, but no one ever bothered to come over and collect them for DNA evidence, or interviewed any of the restaurant’s employees. So much for the national “Be on the Lookout” alert. “

This is unbelievable! They should have sent agents or the police within minutes to question these possible terrorists.


44 posted on 05/24/2008 7:19:03 AM PDT by Clairity
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To: SJackson


45 posted on 05/24/2008 7:22:27 AM PDT by Diogenesis (Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum)
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To: Squantos

“I would suggest that a terrorist that has evaded capture this long will not draw such attention too themselves in a cafe etc .........”

Evidence shows that your suggestion is not correct.

Actor James Wood noticed several of the 9-11 terrorists doing a dry run on the same plance he was on, one of the things he noted that they were very rude to the female flight attendant. He was so concerned that he told the pilot that this may be a hijack attempt, the pilot believed him, but authorities did not, and when they landed safely, they didn’t even question the suspected terrorists. After 9-11 James Wood got in touch with the FBI and they confirmed that the potential hijackers he saw months prior were indeed the 9-11 terrorists.

Here is the link to O’Reilly’s interview with James Wood — there were other articles, but those links seem to be broken now, but this one still works.

http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/Web%20Pages/FOX%20NEWS_transcript%20-%20Actor%20James%20Woods.htm


46 posted on 05/24/2008 7:33:29 AM PDT by Clairity
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To: SJackson
Former Clinton Secretary of Defense William Perry and former Assistant Secretary of Defense Graham Allison are among those who have estimated that chance at more than 50 percent over the next decade. That is, two respected experts in the field believe that the nuclear destruction of one or more American urban centers is more probable than not in the very near future.

Nah. What we should really worry about is our evil practice of waterboarding.

/s

47 posted on 05/24/2008 7:36:49 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: milford421; nw_arizona_granny

“NW_Arizona_Granny has posted 3 very relevant articles that would seem to be connecting: the lastest worry article from DHS regarding small aircraft, the nuclear incident in Sweden and the filter removal at nuke plant in Idaho.”

Could you post the links here, please? I am not familiar with those articles. Sound interesting and relevant. Thanks.


48 posted on 05/24/2008 7:40:10 AM PDT by Clairity
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To: Diogenesis
Concerning the military patches:
Do you know when they were found? Does any FReeper here know if these are of a current islamic nation?
The first appears to be Iranian, and the second has English on it (Turkish). If I'm correct, they may be several decades old.

The Defense Language Institute (DLI) at Lackland AFB in San Antonio had many Iranian and other mideastern ally pilots learning English there during the late 70s. They were free to sightsee around the countryside during the weekends like any other allied personnel. When the Shah was overthrown, the Iranian students applied for asylum here.
Summary: these may be (probably are) some of their patches; after all, it would be crazy for enemy infiltrators to be wearing a uniform identifying which country they were from!

49 posted on 05/24/2008 8:48:53 AM PDT by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( The Constitution needs No interpreting, only APPLICATION!)
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To: Clairity

Agree NOW yet THEN they were not being sought. Thus my comment that they (the two in this thread) are evading capture !

There is a difference when your part of the crowd or the crowd is after YOU.

Stay safe and thanks for the links !


50 posted on 05/24/2008 9:03:06 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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