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A Third Party Isn't the Way [Rush Limbaugh]
Rush Limbaugh Website ^ | May 29, 2008 | Rush Limbaugh

Posted on 05/29/2008 11:42:58 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Jim in St. Joe, Michigan, welcome to the EIB Network. Hello.

CALLER: Thanks, Rush, for taking my call. I've been listening to you for the last two days with a lot of frustration about the Republican Party. And it sounds that you may have finally conceded that the Republican Party is not going to be the venue to advance conservative ideas, and so I know Obama is the messiah, but, Rush, conservatives are looking for a Moses, a Moses who will go to the Republican Party and say, "Let my people go." Are you ready to do that?

RUSH: No.

CALLER: Why?

RUSH: I don't believe in third-party candidacies. They don't work; they're not going to work; that's not the way to do this. I can give you a couple of scenarios. Here's just one. The liberal Republicans have taken over the party. They have nominated somebody that goes out and says things like they say, gets along with Democrats, they're all one big happy family so all the liberal Republicans in New York and California can get along with all the liberal Democrats in New York and California, our candidate gets beat by 150 electoral votes, anywhere from 50 to 150. We have a 70-seat deficit in the House of Representatives, perhaps a ten- to 12-seat deficit in the Senate, and at that point we start rebuilding the Republican Party because those who have taken over and have decided this is the way to win get shellacked and lose big time. Now, this is going to end up being a major rebuilding effort. You go back and study Reagan in 1976 and Reagan's platform fight. I love studying Ronald Reagan histoire. In '76 he was the most popular, but Gerald Ford got the nod because he's sitting vice president. Gerald Ford got the nod at the convention, but Reagan, at the platform fight, put in every conservative plank he could squeeze in there, he hardly ever mentioned Gerald Ford's name.

Then of course that paid off four years later, it paid off in 1978 in the midterm elections to a certain extent. We didn't gain any control back, but the same sort of scenario. We have squandered conservative leadership. I was telling this to Snerdley yesterday at one of the top-of-the-hour breaks. Conservatives in the media is a great thing, and it has had profound impact, and it has made incredible advances. But we don't have votes on legislation. You can have all the conservative media you want, but if you don't have a political party -- a political party is the vehicle by which ideological advances take place because we're a representative republic, and people vote on these things, elect our people, go to Washington, and theoretically stand for what they were elected to do. This whole process is going to have to start all over again. This is not about going to the Republican Party and telling the conservatives, "Leave it, let these people have it." It's about retaking it. And retaking it is not going to happen this year. Retaking it and rebuilding it is going to start in 2010, even if McCain wins.

But I want to tell you this -- and I've mentioned this before. It's a daunting thing to face. It's another one of these things that makes me feel like I'm chewing my cud. If McCain wins, then the liberal Rockefeller type Republicans, the country club blue-blooders are going to point their fingers at all of us, and they're going to say see? See? This is how you win. You win by being a big tent. You win by welcoming independents and Democrats, and they're going to say this party was never conservative, Reagan was an aberration; Reagan wasn't even conservative. This is how you do it. And so we're going to have to say, "Well, you guys, you think you won, but you didn't. You won with Democrats crossing over as Democrats into your party. If you guys think you won, you guys need to leave the Republican Party and join the Democrat Party." If anybody wants to say what really needs to happen to free up the Republican Party, all these liberal Republicans who are having a bang-up good time over the fact that they're broadening the tent and they're bringing in all these liberal Democrats and independents, just go join the Democrat Party! I mean, if you're going to suggest that McCain put a Democrat on his ticket; if you're going to suggest that he espouse liberal policies in domestic issues, why are you staying in the Republican Party? Just go join the Democrats, and we'll take care of the Republican Party.

This is where this is headed. We'll see. A lot is going to depend on what happens in November in terms of how quickly all this can be rebuilt, but it's going to have to be, and the reason is very simple. There hasn't been any conservative, elected conservative leadership at high levels, leading a movement, mobilizing, inspiring the American people. What we have here -- I'll spend a little bit more time on this when we come back from the break, but we have people who are conflating and confusing being a Republican with being a conservative. Sadly, they are in many cases two totally different things.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Here is what I think is happening. Most people are conflating party with ideology. Some of them know it, and they do so in an opportunistic way. Here's what I mean by this. We all know that third parties are failures. This guy thinking, am I going to be the Moses and lead people out of the Republican Party? That's not the way this is gonna work, because we all know that third parties are failures. So third party is not a viable option. We also know that Obama is as left-wing as anyone who we've ever had running for president in this country, which makes a victory for him a very troubling prospect for us. Let's face it.

So these people want to really be behind the Republican nominee 'cause they're so afraid of Obama. "Obama is the most liberal guy that's ever run. Oh, we can't have that! So by fiat, just automatic, we gotta vote for McCain." But they know that he's terribly flawed. They're going to vote for him, and they'll defend him if he's attacked. But they're worried about him, too. So they attack the party, or they attack the movement. Elections are the means by which we correct these things. The Republicans could have nominated a conservative, but the field was quite weak. The open primary process in the early states played into the hands of non-conservatives, mostly McCain. So the party is merely the instrument through which we offer our positions and seek votes and then move those ideas into reality. The party is what we make it.

After eight years of moderate Republicanism with no genuine conservative leadership, the party will now stand for four years of liberal Republicanism. So we've gone... What is by definition not conservative is going to be liberal. So from a moderate Republican, compassionate conservative kind (that's moderate Republicanism), now we've gone to liberal Republicanism. We're going to have that for the next four years. I mean, you put aside Iraq for the moment; that's not an ideological matter. At the same time third- and fourth-tier pseudoconservatives who have no influence in the grassroots or, for that matter, with most conservative intellectuals, are seizing the moment to claim that their supposed brand of conservative is on the ascendancy. Liberalism is what's on the ascendancy in the Republican Party, and that will lead to defeat eventually, and that's when we rebuild it.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Let me continue this thought on what's happening to the Republican Party. We had a guy call in the latter part of the previous hour -- and I know a lot of you people are thinking this. "Okay, Rush you have once again -- defying the odds and all the experts -- demonstrated your impact and your power with Operation Chaos. So when is it time to turn this on the Republican Party and to fix it? Will you be our Moses?" he said, "and lead us out of the Republican Party to a new place; somewhere with a bright vista, a bright horizon, where the sun never sets -- and will we be alive when we get there? Will we escape the hordes who are trying to wipe us out as we escape?" This is not the strategery. The strategery, ladies and gentlemen, is more like Trojan horse. We stay where we are because the party is going to essentially make it easier for us to retake it. As I mentioned, people are conflating ideology with party.

You have a lot of Republicans who look at Obama and say, "Oh, my God! No! He's just so liberal, the most liberal guy! Oh, my God!" They listen to what he's saying and say, "We gotta vote Republican!" Then, they know that there's just something's wrong about it. But what do we do? (laughing) Who do we do? We've got Obama? So where we are with all this -- you know, third parties don't work. They just never have. They're not going to work in the current structure because a third party, even if a third party president got elected, he won't have any third party members of Congress to speak of -- and the two parties would unite to cream this third-party president, make sure he got nothing. He would have the people behind him if he knew how to lead them, say as Ronaldus Magnus did. At the same time all this is going on, Rockefeller Republicans, liberal Republicans -- who have long been embarrassed of some of the conservatives in the Republican Party, most notably Southerners and evangelical Christians. (whispers) The pro-lifers! For years they've wanted to just get rid of these people because it's embarrassing to them. They go out to their little hobnob parties in the Hamptons, and they hang around Georgetown with the libs and the libs are always laughing at them about all the hayseed hicks that are in their party.

They're embarrassed, and then their wives are nagging them, because their wives are pro-choice. All these liberal Republican guys and their wives are nagging them, and nobody wants to be nagged, can't get the wife to be quiet, that doesn't work. So what you do is you run around and complain to somebody else about the makeup of the party. And then you add to that. At the same time you have third- and fourth-tier pseudoconservatives, and they know who I mean. Even without mentioning their names, they think I'm talking about them, and they frequently react. But many of these are in our so-called conservative intelligentsia and primarily media. They have no influence with the grassroots, meaning the people who make the country work. They work at magazines with a subscription of 60,000 or they write to the editorial page of the New York Times, the op-ed page -- which is read mostly on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, sometimes in San Francisco, south Florida. You know, it's got a liberal readership.

So they write conservatism for liberals, but Republican grassroots people do not read these people. But they're not impacted by them. But they are seizing the moment to claim that their supposed brand of conservatism is on the ascendancy, and their brand of conservatism involves a big, activist, engaged executive in government -- which is liberalism. They see McCain. They don't have any personal love for McCain, but rather, they see McCain as a vessel for their new redefinition of conservatism, and his nomination is widespread acceptance of their views. These are the same people suggesting that he go out and get Sam Nunn to be his vice president, or Lieberman, or some other Democrat. Their views are not conservative. They are a bizarre rehash of Big-Government Republicanism, which has put us where we are today -- which is why I say what's really happening that nobody wants to acknowledge or say is that liberalism is ascending in the Republican Party. When John McCain's signature issues are indistinguishable from Barack Obama's, what are we talking here? Let's just be honest. Liberalism is on the rise in the Republican Party.

So party regulars (the hacks) and the elected officials, they have got no choice but than to support this, if they want to have a future in electoral politics in the Republican Party. Now, I think they're wrong in that calculation. There aren't any leaders there, but their calculation is based on the fact that the mother's milk of politics is money, and the party will get you your money. If you are a Romney, if you are a Huckabee or whoever you are, if you have a future -- if you have ambition for future electoral office in the Republican Party -- the rules of the game say you go along with the party, because it's just one less problem you have when it's your turn. Loyalty and all that. At the same time, party regulars, some conservatives are not quite sure what to do or how to react because they're afraid of being accused of helping to elect a radical like Obama if they don't support the party. But they are disgruntled with McCain. Still, what they end up doing is hoping that McCain, who is solid on Iraq, will somehow reveal at some point that he really is one of us. The current theory is that McCain -- and this is Wishin' & Hopin' (Dusty Springfield, 1964).

What they are hoping is that this is all just a public calculation by McCain to get elected and then when he gets elected, then here comes the real McCain, which will be conservative a la Ronaldus Magnus. This is what people are hoping. This is what little they have to grasp to because, if it's not that, then they know we're in trouble, but they just can't vote Obama. They just can't do it, just won't do it. And they don't want to sit out because they think that will give it to Obama. They just cannot have Obama, but then the alternative is just... Argh! So they construct a theory: "Hey, it's really not that bad. This is all just a game. McCain is just doing what he's doing to get a lot of Obama's votes and get elected, but then when he gets in there, that's when he'll become the real conservative." They're hoping he really doesn't believe all this radical nonsense about global warming. They're hoping he really doesn't believe all this stuff he's saying about the eeeevil oil companies.

They're hoping he really doesn't mean it when he says we need to close Club Gitmo -- and, by extension, shut down my thriving merchandise business there. They're hoping he doesn't mean it when he says that he's going to put the telecoms on the griddle for working with the Bush administration on warrantless wiretaps. But they are wrong. McCain believes in his own press. He believes he's a pied piper. Believe me when I tell you we're seeing the real McCain. He's been freed and liberated. He's the nominee, he can do what he wants, and this is the real conundrum for a lot of people. So I just wanted to explain in greater detail what I meant when I say that the Republican Party's ascendancy right now is actually liberalism. Now, let me share something with you that disagrees with me on this, just to do both sides. There's a little entry at the AmericanThinker.com by somebody named Roy Lofquist. I don't know who Roy Lofquist is, but I'll read what he writes. It's very little, very short.

Actually, it's a letter to the editor of the American Thinker, so he's not one of their contributors. He's just a reader, I suppose. "I have been following politics for a while. Since 1952. I have never seen the conventional wisdom about an election more baseless. Why Obama? Charisma, ideas, hope? None of these or any other reasons that have been bandied about." The only reason the Democrats are choosing Obama is "because he is not Hillary." The dirty little secret is Democrats do not like the Clintons. "The Clintons embarrassed the Democratic Party. Many, many Democrats were ashamed of their President. They do not want to see Billary in the White House ever again, even as visitors. Note that Obama won in the caucus states where the politically active determine the outcome. A Democratic year? How do you figure? Because the New York Times says so? Look at 2006! Yes, let's look at it. In the preceding 6 midterm elections where the incumbent President's party lost seats the average loss in the Senate was 6.1, in the House 29.33. In 2006 the Republicans lost 7 in the Senate and 30 in the House," right on target, right on average, no big deal.

Now let's look at Democrat presidents. JFK. "JFK and Nixon tied in the popular vote, even though Nixon was extremely unlikeable. LBJ beat Goldwater in 1964. Kennedy had been assassinated, we were in the middle of a war and Goldwater was a radical. Carter beat Ford in 1976. Nixon had resigned because of Watergate and Ford was an appointed Vice President." There's pattern here, he's saying. Just follow me on this. "Clinton beat [George H.W. Bush] in 1992 with only 43% of the vote. Ross Perot got 19% which, arguably, was 60-70% Republicans. It seems that Democrats only win in extreme circumstances," post-Watergate, post-Kennedy assassination with a radical like Goldwater; plus with the Kennedy assassination and the Perot factor in there watering it down. "In our history we have seen stretches where one party controlled Congress. They average about 30 years with occasional one-term reversals. I'll go with history every time. From where I'm sitting it doesn't look at all like a Democratic year. Regards, Roy Lofquist." I don't know where Mr. Lofquist lives. You know, some people... Karl Rove has his electoral map out there; Novak has his, and there's some people out there saying that McCain could win by 50 electoral votes, which would be pretty close to a landslide. So Bob Beckel, our old buddy Bob Beckel read that today and he's already filed a piece at Real Clear Politics, where he says: Hell's bells, ain't no way! I can see McCain losing by 50 to 150 electoral votes. (laughing) Nobody knows. But it's clear that McCain and Obama will be fighting over the same voting blocs.

END TRANSCRIPT


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008; conservatives; election; elections; gop; mccain; obama; republicans; talkradio; thirdparty
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1 posted on 05/29/2008 11:43:00 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Hard to tell what side of $ he’s on


2 posted on 05/29/2008 11:44:44 PM PDT by allmost
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To: allmost

he’s right


3 posted on 05/29/2008 11:47:01 PM PDT by sofaman (Moses dragged us through the desert for 40 years to bring us to the one place in the ME with no oil.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

our political system is set up so that it naturally favors two parties. But that doesn’t mean that they have to be the Democrat and Republican parties. It just means that if a third part ever gains traction, it will be at the expense of one of the others, which will fade into obscurity.

Rush, of course, knows this. But he’s a little too invested in the status quo to say it publicly.


4 posted on 05/29/2008 11:47:11 PM PDT by kms61
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To: All; kms61; allmost; sofaman

Operation Chaos: Why Rush Limbaugh Was Right
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2011242/posts


5 posted on 05/29/2008 11:50:03 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (McCain could never convince me to vote for him. Only Hillary or Obama can!)
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To: kms61

status quo ... right. There is no viable third party. That’s reality


6 posted on 05/29/2008 11:50:03 PM PDT by sofaman (Moses dragged us through the desert for 40 years to bring us to the one place in the ME with no oil.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I love the comment that Limbaugh was "an impediment to Fred Thompson".

Fred Thompson was an impediment to Fred Thompson. His campaign was rubbish and that had nothing to do with Limbaugh.

7 posted on 05/29/2008 11:57:29 PM PDT by sofaman (Moses dragged us through the desert for 40 years to bring us to the one place in the ME with no oil.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

He is absolutely right. It’s more reasonable and (yes) feasible to make the GOP into the conservatives’ party again by supporting conservative candidates in the primaries on all levels. We will march into political oblivion, if we continue to splinter our forces or waste them by supporting multiple small parties (Constitution, Conservative or Falcon Party) with absolutely no chance of ever winning anything.


8 posted on 05/29/2008 11:59:20 PM PDT by SolidWood (Refusal to vote for McCain is active support of Obama. Period.)
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To: sofaman

At one time the Republican Party wasn’t viable, either. It was the Whigs and the Democrats. I’m not saying conservatives should bolt, just that things change and nothing lasts forever.


9 posted on 05/30/2008 12:04:54 AM PDT by kms61
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I disagree with Rush on this. If McCain wins, and especially if he wins big, future Republicans will run on the same liberal issues as McCain figuring this is the only way they can win. In the end conservatives lose and lose big time. It doesn’t take many more RINOs to shut down conservativism.


10 posted on 05/30/2008 12:05:26 AM PDT by taxesareforever (We'll never forget Matt Maupin and his service to our country.)
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To: taxesareforever
future Republicans will run on the same liberal issues as McCain figuring this is the only way they can win. In the end conservatives lose and lose big time.

Wrong. Only if conservatives let them. The time to decide this is called primaries. Support conservatives in the primaries. That's the logical and intended way to go. The point is that this Presidential elections are the wrong time to "teach a lesson". We should have been united on one conservative in the primaries. We were split and McCain sailed through. He is our candidate now. If we want to prevent future RINOs, weed them out in the primaries. It's really not that difficult.

11 posted on 05/30/2008 12:10:13 AM PDT by SolidWood (Refusal to vote for McCain is active support of Obama. Period.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Rush is spot on. You don't win by capitulating, you win by digging in your heels and fighting to regain the territory you lost, then advancing.

These idiotic third partiers are running around FR like a bunch of petulant children threatening to hold their breath until they turn blue.

We had our big third party blow out in ‘92 with Perot. It got us the Clintons for eight years and if it wasn't for black barack running we'd be facing eight more.

Hell, if it wasn't for bill not being able to keep his penis in his pants we wouldn't even have a Bush presidency. That would make it 8 for bill, 8 for al and eight more for shrill.

24 years of dem control of the White House AND the Supreme Court because a bunch of bone headed conservatives had a hissy fit “to show the republican party they can't take out votes for granted”.

And now history repeats itself. People say the pubbies are the stupid party, I say conservatives are the stupid ideology. Sometimes I don't want to even get up in the morning due to conservatives being so freakin brain dead.

12 posted on 05/30/2008 12:13:06 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: SolidWood

Yes, we split between Hunter, Thompson, even Ron Paul. . .any others? (It’s late, I’m fuzzy). I hope we (conservatives) have learned our lesson and unite behind ONE candidate in the primaries next time.

Divided and conquered, that’s us.

I’ll be voting for McCain in November. I don’t think he’s all bad.


13 posted on 05/30/2008 12:16:32 AM PDT by Marie2 (“I don’t want to give up eating all I want because of a failed hypothesis,” said Robinson)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I'm a conservative who is registered as an independent. If the republican party wants my vote they need to field conservative candidates...if they refuse, then a party who does will get my vote. I realize this view will engender accusations that it will be my fault if liberals are elected. That is not true. If liberals are elected it's because the republican party has failed conservatives...it will be the republican party's fault if Obama becomes president.
14 posted on 05/30/2008 12:18:52 AM PDT by highlander_UW (illegal alien is to an undocumented worker as a drug dealer is to an unlicensed pharmacist)
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To: taxesareforever; All
"I disagree with Rush on this. If McCain wins, and especially if he wins big, future Republicans will run on the same liberal issues as McCain figuring this is the only way they can win. In the end conservatives lose and lose big time. It doesn’t take many more RINOs to shut down conservativism."

I assume you've been reading your fair share of articles on Barack Hussein Obama. Having said that, how in the world could you, for even one minute, ponder letting someone like that near the Oval Office? Were you around when Jimmy Carter was president? Think of Obama as President Carter, with less judgement, experience and military background, surrounded by the furthest left advisors in American history, while we're at war overseas and at home, energy prices are skyrocketing, housing is tanking and Congress is run by Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi!!

15 posted on 05/30/2008 12:18:57 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (McCain could never convince me to vote for him. Only Hillary or Obama can!)
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To: Marie2
I hope we (conservatives) have learned our lesson and unite behind ONE candidate in the primaries next time. Divided and conquered, that’s us.

Exactly.

I’ll be voting for McCain in November. I don’t think he’s all bad.

Ditto. He is quite bad on some issues, but he isn't significantly different from President Bush. Anyway he is infinitely better than Obama or any other Dem. That's the minimum requirement and McCain fits that. He'll make a decent President with whom we won't agree 100% at all times, but that's also not different from Bush or even Reagan for that matter.

16 posted on 05/30/2008 12:21:39 AM PDT by SolidWood (Refusal to vote for McCain is active support of Obama. Period.)
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To: Marie2
I’ll be voting for McCain in November. I don’t think he’s all bad.

If we don't vote for McCain, we are turning the country over to the RATS with their 100% socialist / marxist agenda!

17 posted on 05/30/2008 12:22:24 AM PDT by Las Vegas Dave ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Hillary and/or Obama?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

2nd, they don’t care. All they Do care about is one thing, illegal aliens and because of McCains stance they will allow the country to be taken over by the enemy, the WOT to be lost and all our men in uniform who gave their life for this effort will have died in vain.

They’ll sit in the corner holding their breath and when they turn blue and obama is elected they’ll exhale an “I told you so”...as if they had any hand in a victory other than insuring defeat.

For some reason that makes them feel good an moral.


18 posted on 05/30/2008 12:23:41 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: highlander_UW
I'm a conservative who is registered as an independent. If the republican party wants my vote they need to field conservative candidates...if they refuse, then a party who does will get my vote.

You have it backwards. It's YOU and ME who have to field conservative candidates. How? By voting for them in primaries! *surprise* The political process isn't that difficult, isn't it? If conservatives can't decide which candidate they should support in the primaries, you will get RINOs or moderates. The problem is conservative disunity, not the Republican party.

19 posted on 05/30/2008 12:24:54 AM PDT by SolidWood (Refusal to vote for McCain is active support of Obama. Period.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What’s the point in saying that McCain should be the next POTUS because he’s for continuing the WOT when the next Congress will probably be such a socialistic majority in both Houses that the next Congress will just vote against and just overturn anything and everything that McCain wants done and needs to be done that involves the WOT as well as also voting against McCain on all other issues that the next Congress has disagreements with McCain about(such as having the socialistic U.S. Senate voting against any and all possible conservative judicial appointee candidates)? Whew! The political makeup of the next Congress will truly determine what happens with both the short-term and the long-term future of the U.S. as a country, and it’s truly more important than who the next POTUS is. This is why I don’t mind voting for Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party as a protest vote against both socialists Obama and McCain while also voting for any possible conservative choices for other political offices (such as voting for Jeff Beatty for U.S. Senate in Massachusetts). It’s truly almost impossible to vote for anybody who really is a conservative when talking about “blue” states like Massachusetts. I feel like I could name and count all conservatives who are still living in Massachusetts on just one hand! Even the “still very weak” Massachusetts GOP is mostly very leftist politically with a small handful of truly conservative Republicans still in existence.


20 posted on 05/30/2008 12:28:20 AM PDT by johnthebaptistmoore (Vote for conservatives AT ALL POLITICAL LEVELS! Encourage all others to do the same on November 4!)
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To: highlander_UW

“If the republican party wants my vote they need to field conservative candidates...”

Thompson wasn’t conservative? Tancredo wasn’t conservative? Hunter wasn’t conservative? The pubbies DID FIELD CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATES but the partisan bickering split the vote (not to mention Huck and Romney) and McCain slipped in on name recognition.

Quit blaming McCain on the pubs and GOP it was you IDIOTIC ONE ISSUE VOTERS who couldn’t see past your nose and you’re doing the dsame thing noe you did during the campaign...

THREATENING TO HOLD YOUR BREATH AND TURN BLUE UNLESS YOU GET YOUR WAY.


21 posted on 05/30/2008 12:28:48 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

Thanks to Presidential powers (CiC and Vetos) Congress is being kept in check. The Democrat majority since 2007 has been utterly unable to stop President Bush’s Iraq strategy which is reaping success. McCain won’t be different on this issue.


22 posted on 05/30/2008 12:31:42 AM PDT by SolidWood (Refusal to vote for McCain is active support of Obama. Period.)
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To: Bob J
"2nd, they don’t care. All they Do care about is one thing, illegal aliens and because of McCains stance they will allow the country to be taken over by the enemy, the WOT to be lost and all our men in uniform who gave their life for this effort will have died in vain."

I'm sure you remember my seemingly endless posting of Senate/House/White House numbers to call to protest amnesty last year. I would prefer that Fred Thompson, Duncan Hunter or another staunch, rock-ribbed conservative were the nominee. But that's not what happened. Adults deal with the world as it is, adolescents pretend that "Santa Claus" is real and will soon make things right. John McCain is a damn sight better than either Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama, and those who claim differently are fooling themselves. The more threads I post on Obama, the more scared I become. The man is a Marxist, black separatist strawman who is a Trojan Horse for our enemies. WE CANNOT LET HIM SUCCEED!!

23 posted on 05/30/2008 12:32:07 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (McCain could never convince me to vote for him. Only Hillary or Obama can!)
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To: taxesareforever

I have said for some time that McCain is the poison pill to Conservatism. Elect him and Conservatism goes from a movement to a theory.

If you have a leftist as the President of your ‘Conservative’ party, what happens? He rules as a leftist pushing leftist policy. The RNC won’t oppose him becaue he’s their meal ticket. The Republicans in Congress won’t oppose him because they want access to the White House and as much quid pro quo as they can get. McCain and the RNC then muscle the state Republican leaderships to support McCain’s agenda. Republicans on forums like this one fall in line behind the (R) at about 75 to 25%.

In one fell swoop, there is no mechanism to push Conservatism. McCain’s leftist policies will get Republican and Democrat support.

Nobody will submit Conservative bills. Even if they did, they’d be DOA. McCain would even veto some of them.

Anyone thinking Conservatism gets rebuilt in this atmosphere is dilusional.

If Obama is elected, Conservatism thrives. Republicans in Congress will oppose him. The Republican party will reach out to Conservatives to gain power. Conservatives will be welcomed to help rebuild. Congress would be ours in 2010.

The Democrats are afraid of Obama. If reasoned candidates with sound values are lofted, they’ll vote for them. After two years they’ll be looking for a way to check Obama as much as well will.

Don’t forget folks, in South Carolina 41% of those who voted for Hillary said they wouldn’t vote for Obama. If that is true, 2010 looks like the year we take Congress back.

Of course that’s if John McCain hasn’t rewritten the Republican Bible, with the Conservative ‘Old Testament’ left out by then. (Just political talk folks, no implication on the actual Bible should be seen as implied here.)


24 posted on 05/30/2008 12:36:28 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Votes to Pass Leftist Policy: McCain Senators 90, House 375 / Obama Senators 58, House 275.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I remember and I also know that that effort was exactly how you fix “irregularities” in your own party...by building a grassroots effort to set it straight.

But we have to fix the malignancy in our own ranks first and I don't have a good feeling about it. I'm almost to the point of telling them to take a hike and never come back because they do more damage than good.

AND IT IS all about the illegals with them, you can see it on their postings and in their taglines.

Go to the freakin’ Const or Libert parties, you're worthless and nothing but bad news.

25 posted on 05/30/2008 12:38:05 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Well I understand what the guy is getting at, but just remember - the Republican party was a third party, once upon a time. A third party isn’t viable at the moment, but third, or even fourth parties, HAVE to be viable at some time, otherwise this representative democracy will be reduced to a same-choice popularity contest with as much intellectual content as “American Idol”.


26 posted on 05/30/2008 12:39:35 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Bob J
It's opposite. Clinton revived the republican party more than anything before or since. After Reagan, the liberal Bush/Baker wing of the party took over. Only after the RNC realized that they couldn't survive on liberal pork anymore did they go back to conservative principles(the contract with america).

If McCain gets elected the RNC will continue their leftward slide.

27 posted on 05/30/2008 12:40:17 AM PDT by ketsu
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To: SolidWood
You have it backwards. It's YOU and ME who have to field conservative candidates. How? By voting for them in primaries! *surprise* The political process isn't that difficult, isn't it? If conservatives can't decide which candidate they should support in the primaries, you will get RINOs or moderates. The problem is conservative disunity, not the Republican party.

Oh really?! Well, by the time there was a primary in my state there was 1 candidate. Here's my suggestion...how about the republican party hold their early primaries in states more representative of the bulk of the party?

28 posted on 05/30/2008 12:42:43 AM PDT by highlander_UW (illegal alien is to an undocumented worker as a drug dealer is to an unlicensed pharmacist)
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To: SolidWood

Supporting conservatives in primaries means supporting the conservative who runs against RINO Senator Arlen Specter here in PA come 2010.

Rush had Arlen on his program a few months ago.

He had Arlen on his show a few weeks before the 2004 primary were Pat Toomey almost beat him.

Rush is right to say support conservatives in primaries and that means a ban on Arlen Specter appearing on his program and allowing Specter’s opponent airtime in 2010.


29 posted on 05/30/2008 12:45:23 AM PDT by Nextrush (MCCAIN, OBAMA, CLINTON......WHAT A CHOICE?)
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To: ketsu

Baloney, there is one person who revived the pub party and conservatism and that was Newt Gingrich and his Contract with America.

And of course now Newt is villified by the same people who call for a mass walk out to third parties.


30 posted on 05/30/2008 12:47:31 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: SolidWood

But the next Congress in both Houses will probably increase their number of leftist politicians to the point where they will have a voice, get their leftist agenda forced upon all of the general public, and where they will be able to easily override any and all vetoes that a President McCain could make during his entire Presidential term. Also, John McCain is such a political wuss when he’s not being a political maverick, and he did even think about joining the Democratic Party not that long ago. John McCain says that he’s willing to work with Democrats, but he just as equally doesn’t say that he’s also willing to work with both Republicans and conservatives! Remember, John Kerry almost picked McCain to be his ‘04 VP, and McCain still hates both the Republican Party and all of conservatism while still pretending that he actually likes them now, just to get their votes. “Assiduous conservative back stabbing” McCain truly isn’t fooling me one bit!


31 posted on 05/30/2008 12:47:54 AM PDT by johnthebaptistmoore (Vote for conservatives AT ALL POLITICAL LEVELS! Encourage all others to do the same on November 4!)
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To: Las Vegas Dave

That’s how I see it.

I trust McCain’s patriotism. I trust he will lead us to victory over global jihad. I trust he is pro-life. I believe he is a fiscal conservative. I think he has integrity, that is to say, he means what he says, even if I don’t like what he says from time to time.

I hope he’ll give us good judges. I don’t think he’s corrupt. I think he’s decently pro-gun.

Don’t like: the global warming thing (but I think it’s winding down). His weakness on the 1st amendment. His waffling about on illegal immigration.

If he wins in November I will be ecstatic. You’ll hear me doing war-whoops across the Sierra Nevadas.


32 posted on 05/30/2008 12:48:39 AM PDT by Marie2 (“I don’t want to give up eating all I want because of a failed hypothesis,” said Robinson)
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To: highlander_UW

I agree with you but got a better idea, how about we divide ALL the states up into 3 groups and hold those primaries on three consecutive weeks?


33 posted on 05/30/2008 12:49:11 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: Bob J
Thompson wasn’t conservative? Tancredo wasn’t conservative? Hunter wasn’t conservative? The pubbies DID FIELD CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATES but the partisan bickering split the vote (not to mention Huck and Romney) and McCain slipped in on name recognition.

You are describing the republican party. The process they have in place gave us McCain...not one of those other candidates you listed. So are you suggesting that the conclusion one should arrive at is since the republicans did have a few conservative candidates and yet are now putting forth McCain as their representative that the republican party is not the party of conservatives? It looks that way to an objective observer.

Quit blaming McCain on the pubs and GOP it was you IDIOTIC ONE ISSUE VOTERS who couldn’t see past your nose and you’re doing the dsame thing noe you did during the campaign...

You're wrong in many ways here. Firstly, you have no idea which issues energize me, nor how many issues energize me...so you're just utilizing an ad hominem. Secondly, the republican party selected their 1 candidate LONG before my state had a primary vote...so it's irrational to blame me for who the republicans have selected to represent them. So it's the republicans who are screwing American, in my view, by fielding a very weak candidate. You want to win...select a viable candidate.

THREATENING TO HOLD YOUR BREATH AND TURN BLUE UNLESS YOU GET YOUR WAY.

This shows your arrogance and stupidity. You (and the republicans) have no RIGHT to my vote...if you want it, earn it. Don't blame me when you field crap and I don't salute it.

34 posted on 05/30/2008 12:50:32 AM PDT by highlander_UW (illegal alien is to an undocumented worker as a drug dealer is to an unlicensed pharmacist)
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To: Marie2

“I trust McCain’s patriotism. I trust he will lead us to victory over global jihad. I trust he is pro-life. I believe he is a fiscal conservative. I think he has integrity, that is to say, he means what he says, even if I don’t like what he says from time to time.”

But none of that matters to the antis because they don’t like McCains stance on immigration.

One issue voters are the poison to any effective political strategy.


35 posted on 05/30/2008 12:50:36 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: kms61

“our political system is set up so that it naturally favors two parties. But that doesn’t mean that they have to be the Democrat and Republican parties. It just means that if a third part ever gains traction, it will be at the expense of one of the others, which will fade into obscurity.”

I agree. And the reason our political system is like that is because that’s how the two parties organized it.

But, as you say, a successful third party will not remain a third party, it will replace the Republican Party (as the Republicans replaced the Whigs).


36 posted on 05/30/2008 12:50:44 AM PDT by FFranco
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To: highlander_UW

I don’t want your vote, your vote is too freaking hard to satisfy. Take your vote and go live in a libertarian cave somewhere because you bore all the rest of us.


37 posted on 05/30/2008 12:54:06 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: Bob J
I agree with you but got a better idea, how about we divide ALL the states up into 3 groups and hold those primaries on three consecutive weeks?

Sounds like a better idea than what is currently the situation. Of course there are always unintended consequences with any plan...I can see that the one with your suggestion is the most successful candidates are likely to be the ones that already have name recognition and big bucks to spend on ads off the top. Additionally, there will be less opportunity for the unsuccessful candidates to influence the better known ones by challenging their ideas over the full length of a normal election cycle. (of course with the republican primaries ending early it appears the only influence applied was generally from Huckabee expressing his faith...all the candidates were spouting their religious views when it was raised in reaction to Huckabee for a time). The value of that influence to the race might be debated as well.

38 posted on 05/30/2008 12:55:55 AM PDT by highlander_UW (illegal alien is to an undocumented worker as a drug dealer is to an unlicensed pharmacist)
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To: highlander_UW

“The process they have in place gave us McCain...not one of those other candidates you listed.”

And did you just come to this realization now? That you’re preferred candidate might not win? What have you done in every other election because bro, my personal candidate hasn’t won since Ronnie, but you don’t see me stamping me feet and holding my breath.


39 posted on 05/30/2008 12:56:31 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: Bob J
I don’t want your vote, your vote is too freaking hard to satisfy.

Yes...it would take an actual conservative. You can keep your RINOs.

Take your vote and go live in a libertarian cave somewhere because you bore all the rest of us.

I highly doubt you speak for the majority of those on this board. I doubt they are as enthusiastic about electing RINOs as you appear to be.

40 posted on 05/30/2008 12:57:58 AM PDT by highlander_UW (illegal alien is to an undocumented worker as a drug dealer is to an unlicensed pharmacist)
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To: highlander_UW

“Don’t blame me when you field crap and I don’t salute it.”

McCain has platform positions on about 15 issues. Which ones are “crap” to you?


41 posted on 05/30/2008 12:59:59 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: Bob J
I agree with you but got a better idea, how about we divide ALL the states up into 3 groups and hold those primaries on three consecutive weeks?

The primary system probably should be revamped but we have to be careful. If you put too many states together it would have the effect of eliminating low budget candidates. This time it would have been only McCain, Romney and Giuliani competing.

Reagan was nominated with the same system we have now. It knocks out the conservatives that are not acceptable to the country at large. That, at the expense of pure conservative or regional candidates.

42 posted on 05/30/2008 1:00:10 AM PDT by MARTIAL MONK (I'm waiting for the POP!)
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To: sofaman
Fred Thompson was an impediment to Fred Thompson. His campaign was rubbish and that had nothing to do with Limbaugh

Thompson siphoned off conservative votes from Huckabee (I'm no Huckabee fan, btw) so that McCain could win the primary. He was nothing more than a shill for McCain.

43 posted on 05/30/2008 1:02:43 AM PDT by TheThinker (Capitalism is the natural result of a democratic government.)
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To: highlander_UW
Why don't you just admit it, you're sole issue is “the brown people”. Who cares that McCain is committed to winning the war in Iraq, who cares that he is committed to fighting jihad worldwide, who cares that he is for small government and low taxes.

Look at your freakin’ tagline, 98% of the anti-McCain movement is about immigration. And you want know something, if you just admitted that you couldn't support McCain due to that most people would understand. But you all go off into this Twilight Zone of how letting obama win the WH is going to usher in some grand ascendancy for conservatism somewhere down the road.

What a bunch of rationalized crap.

44 posted on 05/30/2008 1:05:15 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: MARTIAL MONK

So you’re saying the system worked, even if we ended up with a candidate that didn’t meet the ideological purity test?


45 posted on 05/30/2008 1:07:19 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: Bob J
And did you just come to this realization now? That you’re preferred candidate might not win?

My preferred candidate was Duncan Hunter (although he never scratched out more than a couple of percentage points). But I am/was open to more than just a single candidate...but that candidate would need to actually espouse and have a track record of being an actual conservative. I notice that you haven't once tried to claim McCain is a conservative (which I believe may be attributed to your honesty).

What have you done in every other election because bro, my personal candidate hasn’t won since Ronnie, but you don’t see me stamping me feet and holding my breath.

It's been 20 years since Reagan was president...and by your own admission the republicans haven't fielded a candidate you liked. So am I to believe there wasn't any viable conservative candidates for the last 2 decades? Or is it that the republican party is no longer the party of conservatives? Logic dictates the latter. I'm sick of holding my nose and voting for the lesser evil. No more evil for me please. If wanting a viable candidate is stomping one's feet...then maybe it's last past time for conservatives to collectively stamp their feet...and loud enough for the republican party to hear it.

46 posted on 05/30/2008 1:07:37 AM PDT by highlander_UW (illegal alien is to an undocumented worker as a drug dealer is to an unlicensed pharmacist)
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To: Bob J
McCain has platform positions on about 15 issues. Which ones are “crap” to you?

Crappy candidate, not issues...in my opinion.

47 posted on 05/30/2008 1:09:10 AM PDT by highlander_UW (illegal alien is to an undocumented worker as a drug dealer is to an unlicensed pharmacist)
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To: FFranco

“But, as you say, a successful third party will not remain a third party, it will replace the Republican Party”

And once they replace it they will become as corrupt as the pubs were because that’s the way the system works.


48 posted on 05/30/2008 1:09:28 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: highlander_UW

So you agree with him on his issues. What makes him a “crappy” candidate?


49 posted on 05/30/2008 1:10:08 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: Bob J

They’ve put their foot down about McCain.

Don’t expect ANY other logic or discussion about it. The sooner you realize that and disregard the McCain haters, the soon we can go forward.


50 posted on 05/30/2008 1:14:17 AM PDT by MartinStyles
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