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Obama - Not Born in the USA?
MacRanger Radio Show ^ | Jun 29, 2008 | Jack Moss

Posted on 07/01/2008 1:03:52 PM PDT by Red Steel

Fellow Blog Talk Radio compadre David Zublick over at Heading Right says, “Maybe Not“.

I noted back here that when Kos produced - not a birth certificate - but a certificate of live birth there were several discrepancies noted that pointed to the fact - aside from the convenience - that the document was most likely forged. Since Obama has failed to produce a birth certificate, in-spite of several calls to do so, is telling indeed.

I was born in 1958 in the State of Florida and I can get a birth certificate for ten bucks. I doubt Hawaii was so backward in 1961 that it cannot produce a copy that he could show.

The news orgs are NOT looking into this, but some of us can snoop where others cannot. We’ll see what we can find. Fellow Blog Talk Radio compadre David Zublick over at Heading Right says, “Maybe Not“.

I noted back here that when Kos produced - not a birth certificate - but a certificate of live birth there were several discrepancies noted that pointed to the fact - aside from the convenience - that the document was most likely forged. Since Obama has failed to produce a birth certificate, in-spite of several calls to do so, is telling indeed.

I was born in 1958 in the State of Florida and I can get a birth certificate for ten bucks. I doubt Hawaii was so backward in 1961 that it cannot produce a copy that he could show.

The news orgs are NOT looking into this, but some of us can snoop where others cannot. We’ll see what we can find.

UPDATE: Looks like some have filed the ole FOIA request to force the issue. Meanwhile Doug Ross thinks it’s legit.

One note, Certificates of Live Birth are NOT considered proof of citizenship in many states including Florida, while in other states it is.

Again, why not then just produce the damn certificate, it clears up the whole thing. Until we see that, the issue isn’t closed.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008election; ajntsa; birthcertificate; certifigate; demagogues; democrats; dnc; election; letitgo; media; msm; noiwont; notarealissue; obama; obamatruthfile; obamsaloverdefend; rats; redherring; yesitis
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To: David

David,

“I have in my drawer, probably fifty squeeze seals that will print a seal ring without the certificate data if you squeeze properly. I don’t think any of that proves anything.”

Does the location of the seal in Red Steel’s filtered copy shed any light on this? On all the legal records I have with seals, they are much closer to the margin—else you’d need a seal with an implausibly large handle. If any of your squeeze seals is capable of placing the seal at that approximate location, this would rule out the theory. Admittedly, having zero of 50 seals not be able to come even within 2” of placing a seal that far from the edges doesn’t prove anything definitive, but would cast further doubt on its authenticity.


251 posted on 07/02/2008 12:53:04 PM PDT by DrC
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To: MississippiMan
My oldest (saved June 25, @ 12:02 am mtn) BO BC from his official campaign site. This image did not show the seal when it was subjected to a "Edge Detect" filter as the one did from the KOS site.


252 posted on 07/02/2008 1:03:53 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: MississippiMan

I haven’t been following the Obama BC threads yet but one poster on the TownHall blog makes what seems to me an important point: if Obama had received a real “Certificate of Live Birth” sent from the relevant office in Hawaii and then someone on his staff had scanned it to put it on the “Fight the Smears” site..... wouldn’t there be telltale signs that the document had been scanned?

This does not get directly at the issue of whether a valid BC exists or not, but surely if there is a plausible chain of State of Hawaii mails doc, Obama receives doc and staffer scans it, then there would be indications within the doc that it was a scanned image rather than something just cooked up in Photoshop??

And if it does become evident that the “Certificate of Live Birth” was cooked up for the “Fight the Smears” website, that would suggest that something very suspicious is going on??????


253 posted on 07/02/2008 1:06:19 PM PDT by Enchante (OBAMA: "That's not the Wesley Clark I knew!")
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To: Red Steel

Thx again, Red. I already have this one. Please do let me know if you run across any of the others I mentioned.

MM


254 posted on 07/02/2008 1:09:20 PM PDT by MississippiMan
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To: Political Junkie Too

I can clearly see the date beneath the seal, but following your directions, I don’t see the smudging you refer to.

As for the Obama people, notice that it’s now been weeks that people have questioned the authenticity of this document: they clearly could have procured and posted another officially certified copy by now and/or gotten Obama to authorize the release of this record to anyone requesting it since there obviously isn’t anything private about it any longer. Indeed, he could put this whole thing to rest by authorizing the release of his FULL birth certificate, including full details about Mother, Father, whether birth was recorded as Legitimate or not. Both of them are dead and he’s already written extensively about them, including the fact that his father was a two-timing bigamist with pretty abysmal family values. What on the birth certificate possibly be more embarrassing to the memory of either parent than what Obama already has told?

The only thing I can think of “worth” trying to cover up is a) he’s shamelessly lied to us in his books about his parents: some voters might view that as important information to know before entering the voting booth; or b) he’s knowingly been using a fabricated birth record throughout his career to support a claim of citizenship he doesn’t have or to seek an office for which he is automatically disqualified: if so, the FBI might be interested in knowing about this.

In light of the foregoing, the fact that he hasn’t resolved this simple matter speaks volumes.


255 posted on 07/02/2008 1:10:16 PM PDT by DrC
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To: DrC
2. You said: “His birth doesn’t appear in Vital Statistics;”

What does this mean? In my world, Vital Statistics is an annual compendium of aggregate birth statistics, by state or for the nation. It doesn’t list individual births. Someone did claim that each state keeps a master book with consecutive listings of births as recorded/certificate. Are you saying someone has checked that book and discovered no listing for BO on his alleged birth date? If so, that’s news to me.

OK well there isn't much of an available response to the rest of this stuff. It either ultimately comes in as evidence or it doesn't. We will find out.

The only thing that admits of a response is the Vital Statistics point. The newspapers in Hawaii of the day published each day, births and deaths and marriages of the preceding 24 hours. Someone has gone through and looked at library editions of those newspapers for August 3, 1961 to learn that nowhere in the first week of August is there publication of the birth of this guy under any of the available names. His mother doesn't appear anywhere as a mother either.

And he was born in a hospital. How many people would have been directly involved? Forty-seven years later--are they all gone or have forgotten? Nobody, not the taxi driver, the nurse, the admitting officer remembers anything? The hospital they originally named as the birth site wasn't built until several years after the claimed birth? Obviously it has no records of his birth; neither do any of the other hospitals in the area.

The only birth certificate you have is fraudulent--a fake. Obvious reason is that they can't produce a real certificate because he wasn't born there,.

256 posted on 07/02/2008 1:13:41 PM PDT by David (...)
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To: DrC
Does the location of the seal in Red Steel’s filtered copy shed any light on this? On all the legal records I have with seals, they are much closer to the margin—else you’d need a seal with an implausibly large handle. If any of your squeeze seals is capable of placing the seal at that approximate location, this would rule out the theory. Admittedly, having zero of 50 seals not be able to come even within 2” of placing a seal that far from the edges doesn’t prove anything definitive, but would cast further doubt on its authenticity.

Matter of fact, seals are readily available with longer reaches--I have one of those I know about and I know I have seen many others.

257 posted on 07/02/2008 1:23:59 PM PDT by David (...)
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To: DrC
The only thing I can think of “worth” trying to cover up is a) he’s shamelessly lied to us in his books about his parents: some voters might view that as important information to know before entering the voting booth; or b) he’s knowingly been using a fabricated birth record throughout his career to support a claim of citizenship he doesn’t have or to seek an office for which he is automatically disqualified: if so, the FBI might be interested in knowing about this.

As you suggest, there just isn't anything out there embarrassing enough to justify his current posture. The issue is whether he is eligible to hold the office of President.

258 posted on 07/02/2008 1:27:54 PM PDT by David (...)
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To: jonrick46

Thanks for the link, but I need something more concrete than another blog. I need to see quotes from his Kenyan grandmother and half sister and brother.


259 posted on 07/02/2008 2:39:46 PM PDT by Spunky (You are free to make choices, but not free from the consequences)
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To: Spunky

I am having more fun finding that direct quote from Obama’s Kenyan grandmother. I am suspecting that it has been purged from the internet. I hope I strike gold.


260 posted on 07/02/2008 3:05:25 PM PDT by jonrick46
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To: ltc8k6
I still want to know how they got the date reading the right direction when the certificates from the front side shows it reading backwards?


261 posted on 07/02/2008 3:14:07 PM PDT by Spunky (You are free to make choices, but not free from the consequences)
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To: jonrick46
I am having more fun finding that direct quote from Obama’s Kenyan grandmother. I am suspecting that it has been purged from the internet. I hope I strike gold.

Good luck ... this is fascinating stuff.

262 posted on 07/02/2008 3:15:19 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (A citizen using a weapon to shoot a criminal is the ultimate act of independence from government.)
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To: ltc8k6
Also note my post above on the DeCosta certificate where the date shows reading the right direction, which would have to have been seen from the backside, but if it was the backside then the wording on the bottom would read the wrong direction since you can actually read it from the front side.

Things just do not add up. Obama's is a fake.

263 posted on 07/02/2008 3:21:59 PM PDT by Spunky (You are free to make choices, but not free from the consequences)
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To: DrC; stlnative
The signature block is almost impossible to see, even with filtering. The closest thing is this post by stlnative, who was able to bring it out after looking where I pointed.

-PJ

264 posted on 07/02/2008 3:30:58 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (Repeal the 17th amendment -- it's the "Fairness Doctrine" for Congress!)
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To: Spunky

They just flipped the section they were working on in the graphics program so it could be read better, imo.

I did the same thing on one of the certificates to make the date easier to decipher.

Choose a section with the backwards part in it, and flip just that section with the program.

Easy.


265 posted on 07/02/2008 3:33:34 PM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: ltc8k6
"They just flipped the section they were working on in the graphics program so it could be read better, imo."

Then in my opinion the embossed seal would have shown up much better. Like DeCosta's did.

266 posted on 07/02/2008 3:56:46 PM PDT by Spunky (You are free to make choices, but not free from the consequences)
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To: jonrick46
"I am having more fun finding that direct quote from Obama’s Kenyan grandmother. I am suspecting that it has been purged from the internet. I hope I strike gold."

Then keep on having fun and I hope you strike gold also. :-)

267 posted on 07/02/2008 4:05:24 PM PDT by Spunky (You are free to make choices, but not free from the consequences)
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To: jonrick46
I am having more fun finding that direct quote from Obama’s Kenyan grandmother. I am suspecting that it has been purged from the internet. I hope I strike gold.

It got wider distribution in Africa in local press--look there.

268 posted on 07/02/2008 4:48:36 PM PDT by David (...)
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To: Slapshot68
was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years:”

This is the issue, the age of the mother. Besides I don't give a cr@p, this dufus country is hell bent on electing this marxist, so let them all dwell in the house of Lenin, I am old and enough that it doesn't matter to me.

269 posted on 07/02/2008 5:00:50 PM PDT by itsahoot (We will have world government. The only question is whether by conquest or consent.)
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To: smoothsailing
Did Obama’s mother live in the USA for a grand total of least 5 years (60 months) after she turned 16?

Where does the requirement say that those 5 years (60 months) after the age of 16 have to be accumulated between the age of 16 and 21? (22 actually)

270 posted on 07/02/2008 5:08:11 PM PDT by stlnative (There is no room for B.O. in our White House !)
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To: David

“As historical and textual analysis has shown, a citizen may be both “naturalized” and “natural born.” Under the naturalized born approach, any person with a right to American citizenship under the Constitution, laws, or treaties of the United States at the time of his or her birth is a natural-born citizen for purposes of presidential eligibility.”

The Natural-Born Citizen Clause and Presidential Eligibility: An Approach for Resolving Two Hundred Years of Uncertainty. Jill A. Pryor. The Yale Law Journal, Vol. 97, No. 5 (Apr., 1988), pp. 881-899.

I’m assuming you can track this down on Lexis-Nexis. I’m feeling much better about McCain’s legal situation. The 1790 naturalization statute is the clearest indication of what the term “natural born” meant at the time of the Founding Fathers: children born of American parents are natural-born as they automatically are conferred citizenship at birth. Also, the Founding Fathers easily could have used a more precise term—”native born”—yet elected not to do so.

So how come TWO citizens (including a lawyer!) have gotten up the gumption to file suits against McCain on this issue and none to do so against Obama? I wonder if WJC is working on this behind the scenes while his wife makes nice to get put on the ticket and presumably become the automatic heir apparent once Obama is disqualified by the Supreme Court. I can just hearing the teeth-gnashing from the left already: that nasty old Supreme Court has once again interfered with the will of the people to decide an election... :-)


271 posted on 07/03/2008 10:38:16 AM PDT by DrC
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To: stlnative

You said: “Did Obama’s mother live in the USA for a grand total of least 5 years (60 months) after she turned 16?”

Yes, but not before Barack was born when she was 18, which is the only time-frame that matters for purpose of determining his citizenship.

You said: “Where does the requirement say that those 5 years (60 months) after the age of 16 have to be accumulated between the age of 16 and 21? (22 actually)”

It doesn’t: what matters is the accumulated amount of time, but unless the required amount occurs before the child is born, such a mother cannot confer citizenship on her child. In Obama’s case, his mom fell far short of this requirement.

“When enacted in 1952, section 301 required a U.S. citizen married to an alien to have been physically present in the United States for ten years, including five after
reaching the age of fourteen, to transmit citizenship to foreign-born children. The ten-year transmission requirement remained in effect from 12:01 a.m. EDT December 24, 1952, through midnight November 13, 1986, and still is applicable to persons born during that period.”
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf

The above document has great gobs of detail about the exact requirements, who has to prove what and how etc., what counts as “physical presence” etc., what happens if American mom is unwed etc.


272 posted on 07/03/2008 11:13:07 AM PDT by DrC
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To: DrC
“As historical and textual analysis has shown, a citizen may be both “naturalized” and “natural born.” Under the naturalized born approach, any person with a right to American citizenship under the Constitution, laws, or treaties of the United States at the time of his or her birth is a natural-born citizen for purposes of presidential eligibility.”

The Natural-Born Citizen Clause and Presidential Eligibility: An Approach for Resolving Two Hundred Years of Uncertainty. Jill A. Pryor. The Yale Law Journal, Vol. 97, No. 5 (Apr., 1988), pp. 881-899.

I’m assuming you can track this down on Lexis-Nexis. I’m feeling much better about McCain’s legal situation. The 1790 naturalization statute is the clearest indication of what the term “natural born” meant at the time of the Founding Fathers: children born of American parents are natural-born as they automatically are conferred citizenship at birth. Also, the Founding Fathers easily could have used a more precise term—”native born”—yet elected not to do so.

So how come TWO citizens (including a lawyer!) have gotten up the gumption to file suits against McCain on this issue and none to do so against Obama? I wonder if WJC is working on this behind the scenes while his wife makes nice to get put on the ticket and presumably become the automatic heir apparent once Obama is disqualified by the Supreme Court. I can just hearing the teeth-gnashing from the left already: that nasty old Supreme Court has once again interfered with the will of the people to decide an election... :-)

Well Ms. Prior's view is just another Yalies' view. The best current pronouncements are in law review articles published in the Boston College Law Review and in an article analyzing all of the authorities by John Dean, Nixon's White House counsel, all of whom come to a contrary conclusion.

Doesn't mean any one of them can't be correct.

However the argument inferred in the second sentence of your first paragraph--he was natural born because as a result of his two citizen parents, he was a citizen when he came down the shute, is the best substantive argument on McCain's behalf. I think it fails because if Congress can override the Constitution with that rule, they could override it with a rule that made blue eyed persons born within a hundred yards of the Yellow River (and no other connection with the United States) Citizens at birth. I don't think the Supreme Court will view that as a reasonable interpretation of the Constitution.

It wouldn't surprise you to learn that WJC might become involved in the Obama case--he hadn't yet as of last week. But he isn't the most likely culprit on the suits with regard to McCain. An action has been started in each of the states where McCain got delegates to decertify his delegates on the grounds he is not eligible to serve. Careful study of the credentials rules for the Republican Convention will provide a good clue as to who benefits from pendency of these actions.

273 posted on 07/03/2008 11:35:23 AM PDT by David (...)
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To: DrC
“When enacted in 1952, section 301 required a U.S. citizen married to an alien to have been physically present in the United States for ten years, including five after reaching the age of fourteen, to transmit citizenship to foreign-born children.



Was Obama's mother not a natural born citizen of the USA? Did she not physically live in the USA for at least 5 years before the age of 14? Did she not physically live in the USA for at least 5 years after the age of 14?

We don't know if "he" was foreign-born, but if he was and if his mother lived in the USA 5 years before the age 14 (accumulated sometime from her birth to the age of 14) and if she lived in the USA for 5 years after the age of 14 (accumulated from the age of 14 until the time she died).
Then there is no problem.
274 posted on 07/03/2008 11:55:56 AM PDT by stlnative (There is no room for B.O. in our White House !)
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To: DrC
Hawaii has been a US territory since 1898.
It became a state of the USA in August of 1959.

Did not all Hawaiians then become retroactive citizens of the USA in August of 1959? (even maybe making them retroactive natural born citizens of the USA - thus making Obama’s 1943 born mother a retroactive natural born citizen of the USA since 1943?)

275 posted on 07/03/2008 12:13:08 PM PDT by stlnative (There is no room for B.O. in our White House !)
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To: stlnative
"if she lived in the USA for 5 years after the age of 14 (accumulated from the age of 14 until the time she died)."
Nice try, but reading the statute language always is helpful:
As originally enacted, section 301(a)(7) stated: "Section 301. (a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: (7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years..." http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf
If Obama was foreign-born, he's toast. Unlike McCain's situation regarding the natural-born citizen issue, this particular provision is crystal clear and cannot possibly be twisted to support Obama's being eligibility to serve as president--unless, perhaps, he wants to be president of Kenya.
276 posted on 07/03/2008 12:14:15 PM PDT by DrC
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To: David

>>>It wouldn’t surprise you to learn that WJC might become involved in the Obama case

Danny Pearl, former WSJ reporter, was covering the rat routes and money laundering from Kenya to Dubai, et al when he was killed. The first in a series was on the Tanzanite mining. He was never able to release follow up stories. I do believe he had data for the following series on his computer though. I think WSJ handed them over to the FBI.

Pearl’s article is here, in the comments section of this thread on the US Treasuring flagging Al Qaeda Finances.

http://blog.barofintegrity.us/2008/06/14/kuwaiti-charity-designated-for-bankrolling-al-qaida-network.aspx#comment-1123511


277 posted on 07/03/2008 12:31:16 PM PDT by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: expatguy; Grampa Dave; pissant; Calpernia; Miss Didi; David; AliVeritas; Red Steel

New developments found here:

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/03/update-daily-kos-an-obama-activist-and-forged-birth-certificates/#comment-420703

Fascinating.


278 posted on 07/03/2008 4:19:31 PM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: Polarik

meant to ping you to this..


279 posted on 07/03/2008 4:28:12 PM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: SE Mom

Thanks for the ping!


280 posted on 07/03/2008 6:09:58 PM PDT by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: SE Mom

Shouldn’t that be...

New BS Moonbat developments found here:

I love it, BS Moonbats “trying” to eat other BS Moonbats.


281 posted on 07/03/2008 9:01:54 PM PDT by stlnative (There is no room for B.O. in our White House !)
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