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Noah's Ark - Fact Not Fiction
http://rsanoa.home.comcast.net/~rsanoa/ark_summary.htm ^ | Ray Anderson

Posted on 08/22/2008 9:59:31 AM PDT by Fennie

In 1943 during WW2, an army Sgt., Ed Davis, was working in Iran near the Turkish border, in charge of locals hired by our army to build a road through Iran to the Soviet border, which would carry supplies to the Soviets instead of flying them in.

In short, Ed did a tremendous favor for a little Kurdish village near Ararat. His workers were mostly Kurds and the chief of the village came to Ed and asked if he would like to see Noah's Ark. He said the summer on the mountain had been hottest in many years and the Ark was visible for the first time in years...


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To: Fennie

read later


41 posted on 08/22/2008 11:52:49 AM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: Fennie

You must have very broad definition for the word “Fact.’


42 posted on 08/22/2008 12:05:56 PM PDT by Uncle Slayton (Texan Pride)
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To: Uncle Slayton

Several years ago National Geographic had a picture of what could possibly be the ark. The shape of a boat, mostly rotted away, was found high on a mountain, not Ararat but a different mountain in the same range. There was also evidence in the area of people having lived there.


43 posted on 08/22/2008 12:39:58 PM PDT by webboy45
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To: metalcor
but within a minute or two I heard my buddy screaming like a little girl. Something was under his cot

Of course, being a well-mannered future Freeper, you never mentioned this to him again, did you :-)

44 posted on 08/22/2008 12:58:28 PM PDT by Notary Sojac (America's never won a "war" unless the enemy was named using a proper noun.)
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To: Fennie

Where’s the beef? No physical evidence, no case.

Many biblical tales are based, at least in part, of some factual event, but at least so far there hasn’t been any solid evidence that Noah’s ark has been found. If it happens, and can be proven, great. Until then...


45 posted on 08/22/2008 1:11:43 PM PDT by navyguy (Some days you are the pigeon, some days you are the statue.)
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To: figetyfiggs
Actually according to the Bible they were cooped up on the ark more than 40 days...at least 244 days if you add up the intervals, but the text has the flood start on the 17th day of the second month of the 600th year of Noah's life (Gen. 7.11) and the "earth was dry" on the 27th day of the second month of the 601st year of Noah's life (Gen. 8.14), after which they left the ark, so the whole time was a year and 10 days.

Of course by the lunar calendar that may have been a year of 354 days.

46 posted on 08/22/2008 1:39:46 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Wow, I’m impressed. Did you uncover that discrepency recently and by yourself? Or did somebody else point it out to you? The fact is that particular alleged historical discrepency of the Bible - in addition at a minimum 900 others - has been floating around the internet since at least 1874 (they already in extensive circulation at that time). If that’s the best that you can do, I suggest that you acquire a century old (or older) treatise on higher criticism. At least those arguments against the inspiration of Scripture had some depth.

First off, if seven of *some* are taken, than two of *each* kind ARE taken. There is no contradiction stated. A manifest contradiction would require a statement that two of some kind NOT be taken! Secondly, there is a gap of about 120 years between the two injunctions. The first injunction was for animals to be taken in pairs. The second being a stipulation for the number of pairs.

The New Oxford Annotated Bible (as well as other commentators) states that the priestly tradition of the Flood story mentions two animals of every sort whereas the early tradition differentiates between clean (7 pairs) and unclean animals (2 pairs), as well as birds (7 pairs). The priestly tradition is allegedly reflected in Gen 7:9 (where two by two is mentioned), whereas the verses from Gen 8 are otherwise a continuation of the early tradition.

Ancient historians study ancient texts and their transmission. Intellectually honest ancient historians know that there simply is no way for anyone to know that the “priestly tradition” did not mention the seven pairs, since we do not have the full priestly story (if such even existed), only the excerpts that were included in the transmitted text. It would not appear appropriate to claim that an absurdity that “may” be in a lost “priestly story” is the same thing as an actual absurdity in the Bible. This is all the more so when one considers the ambiguity of the language. 7:9 says simply that all the animals “were brought two and two” into the ark - which grammatically (in the Greek and Hebrew) can mean two each or two at a time. To assume that “two each” is meant requires making assumptions about the context of the priestly story that no longer exists, and that is never an accepted practice by ancient historians unless there are genuinely good reasons to do so.

Greek and Hebrew texts, in conjunction with the appropriate lexical aids, shows the wording of the verse, literally translated, is “take seven, seven, male, female” (it is literally that terse). There is no sound reason to suppose that the repetition of “seven” followed by a reference to a natural pairing means anything other than seven pairs (seven males, seven females), unless the seventh animal was a slug or something.

Wilson’s Old Testament Word Studies says that “seven” represents “either a definite number, or sometimes indefinite, to denote abundance or sufficiency” so that “’By sevens’ stands in the original ‘seven seven.’” Thus, “seven seven” can or does mean “by sevens.” Therefore, there is (or may be some) ambiguity, an ambiguity that would explain why it is that some commentators say that it was seven animals, not seven pairs, that was meant by “seven seven.”

On the other hand, verse 7:9 states “they went two, two, male, female” and that is ambiguous enough to allow three interpretations: the “two, two” may simply describe how they were loaded (two at a time), or that they went in male-female pairs (the second” two” merely being emphatic), or that there were four each, two males and two females. Verses 6:19-20 both repeat “bring pairs, male, female,” which can just as easily be a description of procedure (”two at a time”) as of number (”two and no more”). The Hebrew is as ambiguous as the English word “fly” (which can be a verb or a noun, and sometimes with no way to tell except through interpretive guessing, e.g. “fruit flies like a banana”). The point is that we are obligated to grant the author that he tried to establish extra clean animals when these same animals turn up again in the story, and we are left to wonder why these animals were loaded in excess, if not for the fact that they were for ritual use.

My point is that when I read a novel and find a similar confusion, I automatically look for what makes the most sense of what is written, not what creates the clearest contradiction. Why should we be less charitable with the Bible?


47 posted on 08/22/2008 2:06:22 PM PDT by raygun
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To: figetyfiggs
Q. What's harder than getting a pregnant Brontosaurus into the ark?

A. Getting a Brontosaurus pregnant in the ark!

(Noah! Make them stop. I'm getting seasick!)

48 posted on 08/22/2008 4:14:40 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: XR7

He keeps gettin’ chased away by Freemasons. :-P


49 posted on 08/22/2008 6:58:33 PM PDT by uglybiker (I do not suffer from mental illness. I quite enjoy it, actually.)
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To: raygun
Wow, I’m impressed. Did you uncover that discrepency recently and by yourself?

Now, now...it's not fair to respond until the gentle poster has recovered from the fatigue of vigorously patting themselves upon the back after making a pretty mudpie.
50 posted on 08/22/2008 9:38:53 PM PDT by beezdotcom
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To: wbill; Vaquero
"What is that thing?"
"It's an ark."
"Do you want to get it out of my driveway?"
51 posted on 08/22/2008 9:39:19 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (What can I say? It's a gift. And I didn't get a receipt, so I can't exchange it.)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

Perhaps Noah was a good animal trainer and made the wee animools poop over the side or he had a sliding floor section at the back — the poop deck? :)


52 posted on 08/22/2008 11:48:24 PM PDT by Cronos ("Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant" - Omar Ahmed, CAIR)
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To: Zauber

well, the unicorns were too girly.....


53 posted on 08/22/2008 11:51:23 PM PDT by Cronos ("Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant" - Omar Ahmed, CAIR)
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To: Fennie

Can Noah’s ark be spotted on satellite ? Google Earth ?


54 posted on 08/23/2008 12:12:14 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
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To: Fennie
Maybe the REAL reason the liberals are afraid of global warming is that, if it melts the ice and snow on that mountain, then, they will have no more excuses to not believe the Bible.... that want to keep the truth hidden.
55 posted on 08/23/2008 12:14:50 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
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To: raygun; Virginia Ridgerunner
My point is that when I read a novel and find a similar confusion, I automatically look for what makes the most sense of what is written, not what creates the clearest contradiction.

It's not a contradiction, it's a paradox.

56 posted on 08/23/2008 12:44:51 AM PDT by XR7
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To: navyguy

... Remember, all of this had been frozen in glacier ice for thousands of years. They took Ed on a three day journey up the mountain, where late one afternoon they arrived at a large terrain formation where the ice and snow had almost completely melted off.

Down in the bottom of the formation was a large, long box shaped object with a sort of superstructure built on top, which was about one third the width of the roof of the main structure. They walked Ed around the rim of the formation so he could view it from one end and two sides.

They dropped down inside the formation by ropes for viewing into the broken south end. There he could see three distinct floor levels, just as Moses described, and many partitions and what appeared to be huge stalls or pens. Also many broken and displaced timbers.

They said they and their ancestors had been in it many times when the ice melted enough, which was very seldom. They said the superstructure on top was the living quarters for Noah and family and there was still some evidence of living there like lamps and such. They gave detailed descriptions of some of the animal pens and cages and said waste was collected in the bottom section of the structure ...


57 posted on 08/23/2008 4:07:40 AM PDT by Fennie
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To: Fennie

That’s all well and good, but where is the actual physical evidence?


58 posted on 08/23/2008 5:25:57 AM PDT by navyguy (Some days you are the pigeon, some days you are the statue.)
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To: raygun
I suggest that you acquire a century old (or older) treatise on higher criticism.

Higher criticism????? Hmmmm...what's that? Do you mean that body of work by Schleiermacher, Strauss, and Feuerbach?

Nah...never heard of it.

59 posted on 08/23/2008 6:03:09 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("We must not forget that there is a war on and our troops are in the thick of it!"--Duncan Hunter)
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To: navyguy

— Latest Photos Of The REAL Noah’s Ark —

http://www.666soon.com/search_for_noah.htm


60 posted on 08/23/2008 6:12:37 AM PDT by Fennie
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