Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Wind Energy Bumps Into Power Grid’s Limits
NY Times ^ | August 27, 2008 | MATTHEW L. WALD

Posted on 08/26/2008 11:16:46 PM PDT by neverdem

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-87 next last
To: DungeonMaster; All

“It only works if the alternative is grid power at about 25 cents per kwhr.”

I agree, however, while my current summer rate is only 9 cents, this will now doubt increase over time. Also, with thin film solar, the price of solar will come down. At some time they will converge and then the economics for small scale will no longer be terrible.


61 posted on 08/27/2008 8:49:53 AM PDT by gleeaikin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: gleeaikin
At some time they will converge and then the economics for small scale will no longer be terrible.

True, very true. I like the idea of reflectors. They are cheap and increase the output of the very expensive panels.

62 posted on 08/27/2008 8:57:54 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Proverbs 24:21 My son, fear the LORD and the king; Do not associate with those given to CHANGE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: calex59
Why not build the best clean energy plants, nukes, and build them near the people who will use the energy?

Why not double their capacity at their existing nuclear sites avoiding the NIMBY's?

Plus get the storage deal done!
63 posted on 08/27/2008 9:11:04 AM PDT by Mikey_1962 (Obama: The Affimative Action Candidate)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
They should store offline, whether generating hydrogen gas in tanks, aka bottles, for automotive use, pumping water into reservoirs, etc., until they have this transmission problem solved. I want cheap energy again without any subsidies.

There are currently no scalable storage solutions.

64 posted on 08/27/2008 9:31:29 AM PDT by sionnsar (Obama? Bye-den! |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ben Ficklin
He has made deals with many landowners to build the windmills on their property and then pay them a royalty on the power generated. Many of these landowners are the same landowners who are participating in Mesa Water, who will be paid royalties on the water from the wells on their land.

Thanks for the correction. However, I see this as a distinction without a difference. He was able to gain access to lots of land with a low initial capital outlay.

As I said in my post, he is very smart and has this thing covered from A to Z.

65 posted on 08/27/2008 9:56:11 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: El Gato; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; LadyDoc; jb6; tiamat; PGalt; Dianna; ...
Energy special!

The 1 and Only Solution to America's Energy Problem Nailed it!

Why Offshore Drilling Can Bridge Gap to U.S. Energy Future

Weaken Putin's Russia by weakening their economy - DRILL, DRILL, DRILL & DRILL!

The GOP Platform on Energy/Environment

New Report Calls into Question ‘Man-Made’ Climate Change

66 posted on 08/27/2008 5:04:36 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Hillary’s Haircurlers..


67 posted on 08/27/2008 5:12:00 PM PDT by xcamel (Conservatives start smart, and get rich, liberals start rich, and get stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: G-Man 1
WHY NOT USE THE CURRENT INTERSTATE HIWAY RITE OF WAYS FOR TRANSMISION LINES? WOULD BE CHEEPER THAN HAVING TO BUYING NEW RIGHT OF WAYS.

You don't buy power line right of way, you lease it. You idea might be OK in crowded areas, but the wind farms are not there, in general, anyway. A power line only takes up enough space for the towers. You can farm under it, or in those cities, you can have parks and greenbelts under them.

I don't like the idea of all those towers in the interstate or other highway right of way. Just lots more stuff to run into. And of course if that happens, the power line may go "out of service" too.

68 posted on 08/27/2008 5:17:54 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Thanks for the ping!


69 posted on 08/27/2008 8:56:24 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: Mind-numbed Robot

Thanks for your post about the manipulations of Pickens. This stuff needs to be widely known.


70 posted on 08/27/2008 9:19:07 PM PDT by Octar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Mind-numbed Robot

that’s great...a man who is willing to put his money towards better innovations and forget about the oil companies cushy price gouging business.


71 posted on 08/27/2008 10:28:14 PM PDT by fabian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: N. Theknow
"...Wind-farms are a T.Boone Pickens yer bones dry
T. Boone didn't make his money by putting HIS money at risk..."

Yeah - looks like LNG is the way to go, but Pickens wants us to build windmills, that he'll own, of course.

Good to see ya, bud ............... FRegards

72 posted on 08/28/2008 1:24:31 AM PDT by gonzo ("Shall Not Be Infringed" - use it now! While you still can ... FRegards)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Thermalseeker

I’m witcha, pal ... FRegards


73 posted on 08/28/2008 1:28:33 AM PDT by gonzo ("Shall Not Be Infringed" - use it now! While you still can ... FRegards)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Mind-numbed Robot
That's not unique to Pickens, it's the way the industry works, aka the "nature of the beast".

Babcock & Brown or Celenese do it the same way. The landowners look at it just another crop.

74 posted on 08/28/2008 6:55:31 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: Ben Ficklin
Then you say that there are other articles that "mirror" that article.

There are. Articles about Pickens' efforts to use eminent domain for his PRIVATE ventures have appeared in both the Dallas and Ft. Worth newspapers, the Wichita Falls newspaper, the Amarillo newspaper, along with Business Week and several electrical and water industry trade journals.

Since this is the Internet, you, too, can look these up and educate yourself. I and others have tried supplying you with the links, but you refuse to use them. In addition to reading up on Pickens and his ventures, I've also been through a similar ordeal here in SE Tennessee. The parallels of what happened here with Armstrong Energy Resources and their attempt to bribe their way into eminent domain power for their PRIVATE PROJECT and what is about to happen in Texas (and probably Oklahoma, Kansas, South and North Dakota), courtesy of Mr. T. Boone Pickens, are strikingly similar, if not identical. The are both boondoggles which will waste vast amounts of taxpayer money while doing little to solve the issue at hand.

I suspect, however, that you care not because you will profit from it in one way or another. You keep referring to the Mesa water district. I suspect you are probably one of the "100 families" who will receive royalty payments.

The links I and others have posted in response to your rants stand on their own merit. You claimed that I and others were using "kook" websites. I, and others, posted links to articles from mainstream publications, like the Business Week article, which go into great detail about Pickens' plans, yet you still try to shoot the messenger. Your unsubstantiated comments and rants do also stand on their own merit......hit dog hollers......

Enjoy your windfall....

75 posted on 08/28/2008 7:01:10 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Silence is not always a Sign of Wisdom, but Babbling is ever a Mark of Folly. - B. Franklin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: shove_it
It may help clear up the misconceptions of many on FR regarding this issue.

I don't have any misconceptions about what Pickens is trying to do. I know what he's trying to do. When you piece together what he's been doing with both his wind farm projects and his water municipality, it's crystal clear what his intentions are. The problem I have is he's successfully put enough dead Presidents in the pockets of certain legislators to have the laws changed so that he can use eminent domain to seize property for certain aspects of his private projects. It's been very well detailed in several mainstream press articles.

76 posted on 08/28/2008 7:06:47 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Silence is not always a Sign of Wisdom, but Babbling is ever a Mark of Folly. - B. Franklin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Thermalseeker
As you are not aware, it is not certain that that Pickens will build a transmission line.

What you didn't know previously has been compounded by subsequent events, so now you know even less.

The PUC has authorized two transmission lines.

Maybe you can tell me?

What is the difference between Pickens building a transmission line using eminent domain granted to him by the legislature and another company, such as Sharyland, building a transmission line using eminent domain granted to them by the PUC?

Or, for that matter, a railroad using eminant domain granted to them by the federal govt?

77 posted on 08/28/2008 7:17:08 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: Ben Ficklin
As you are not aware, it is not certain that that Pickens will build a transmission line.

Oh yeah, Pickens is going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build a series of wind farms with no way to transport the electricity generated to the existing grid? That is laughable.

What you didn't know previously has been compounded by subsequent events, so now you know even less.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. It appears to be incoherent babbling on your part.

Since you are sooooo well informed(according to you), instead of continuing to argue your unsubstantiated points with myself and others, why not direct your efforts towards contacting the specific offending media organization and demand a retraction? You and only you have the knowledge base of what Pickens is really doing, right? Since all these mainstream articles that have been posted for your review are all wrong in your eyes you need to set these mainstream media outlets straight! Start with Business Week. Clearly, the editors who check this information for validity, and their reporters, who, unlike you, have been attending the various public meetings on this subject around the region must not not be reporting what they've heard and seen at these meetings. (according to you, anyway)

What is the difference between Pickens building a transmission line using eminent domain granted to him by the legislature and another company, such as Sharyland, building a transmission line using eminent domain granted to them by the PUC?

Once again, it's the method Pickens used to gain eminent domain rights for his PRIVATE PROJECTS. Texas, as has been demonstrated in the past 6 months or so, has the best legislature money can buy. Get it?

Or, for that matter, a railroad using eminant domain granted to them by the federal govt?

Apples and oranges. Railroads are a completely different entity from electric and water utilities and were granted special eminent domain rights by Congress in the post Civil War era in order to "fast track" the building of essential railroads to connect the country and to foster reconstruction growth. Consult any high school US History book for details.

Do enjoy your windfall, you hear?

78 posted on 08/28/2008 7:55:44 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Silence is not always a Sign of Wisdom, but Babbling is ever a Mark of Folly. - B. Franklin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]

To: Thermalseeker
Once again, you have shown your lack of knowledge.

You think it is significant that Pickens WOULD build a wind farm but the real significance is WHEN Pickens decided to build a wind farm.

It was after the CREZs were set-up. When he knew for certain that there would be transmission lines.

Same way with Babcock & Brown and Celanese. They are windfarm operators and are members of the Sharyland consortium. Now they can sell only to the western grid, but after the new transmission line(s) are built they will have access to a new and larger market. The consortium was formed up after the CREZs were set up.

As for this windfall you think might get from being member of Mesa water, how do you know that I might not be one of those landowners 100 miles west of San Antonio who is using Rule of Capture to sell water to San Antonio? Or, I might be a stockholder in Ozarka Water and benefitting from the wells in east Texas.

79 posted on 08/28/2008 8:34:40 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: Thermalseeker
>>”The problem I have is he's successfully put enough dead Presidents in the pockets of certain legislators to have the laws changed so that he can use eminent domain to seize property for certain aspects of his private projects.”<<

If you have proof of illegal activity by Pickens, don't waste time spouting about it here, trot on down to the State Attorney and present it. And don't believe everything you read in the newspapers either.

80 posted on 08/28/2008 9:49:38 AM PDT by shove_it (and have a nice day)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-87 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson