Posted on 09/25/2008 7:41:36 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
They gambled away our 401ks and our mortgages. Now they want to double down with the national treasury. And it, of course, is simply a pile of IOUs. They intend to gamble with the tax receipts and or freshly printed money.
No problem though, because Christopher Dodd and Barney Frank are going to oversee the betting.
Spot on, the Dems are major thieves but most Reps have been willing enablers of this scam all along.
How did the 401K s get into the mix?
This whole thing stinks. How about seizing the assets of the robber barons who caused this mess? How about calling the pikers in congress on the the carpet who insisted that we give loans to poor minorities? How about outing all of those who took thousands of dollars from FannieFreddie, whatever the hell that even means anymore, to look the other way? I’m angry. I haven’t been posting much lately, but this is really getting my goat.
Where is my bailout? Where is my neighbor’s bailout? We all have bills. My oil bill this winter is going to be sky high. My electric bill is through the roof. I’m tired of hearing “the alternative is worse”. Screw all the Wallstreeters and speculators. I say let them get ttheir comeuppance. I’ve had it. And George Bush can go to hell, too. I voted for him twice, and I’m tired of hearing him. Why didn’t he fight harder years ago when something could have been done?
I fold,I may go all in later.
There is no need for a bailout. I have seen already several excellent proposals that would alleviate the strain on liquidity, which is the problem (contrary to popular belief), and free up credit.
Rep. Cantor and others have taken McCains ideas and merged them with some others and have come up with an almost workable plan that doesn’t cost the taxpayers any money. It just needs a few tweaks to be workable, and that should happen by tomorrow.
Now, whether of not the dims will cave and vote for it, is another matter entirely.
It is about helping the institutions that own far and away the vast bulk of CDOs and mortgage debt: insurance companies and pension funds.
This is about Americans who have never played the stock market or worked in banking losing their pensions, their savings accounts and their life insurance policies.
I strongly favor using their anger to help support cleaning up the Wall Street casino, which means no pointing fingers at the Senate/House Dems and yelling "It's ALL their fault"
Because it isn't all their fault, either.
There are a whole number of folks who for almost a decade have been talking about lax loan standards, excessive leveraging, and the danger of betting on bond defaults.
Until maybe a year ago, they were derided as "permabears" and "contrarians" who just wanted to throw a big smelly wet blanket on the great party everyone else was having.
Notice that none of them were ever appointed to run the Treasury. Or the Fed. Or made partner at Morgan or Goldman. You get the picture??
If prudent managers and their prudent methods are not brought forward - if the party-hearty gang like Paulson and Bernanke stay in charge - we've really bought the farm.
>> But to let this thing unwind by itself is going to punish people who were never involved in the gambling.
Seriously?
Please elaborate.
See post 27.
See, this is the House. They are all up for re-election.
The Senate, who say they have a deal, are not.
Gingrich was brilliant on Fox tonight. He said there never was a deal because it takes two equal houses of Congress. And there was Pelosi all along saying the deal was done in the House. The House was waiting on the Senate. Ha, ha.
Evidently, this is why McCain is going to work the House as the titular head of the Party. But McCain has said he is not for the deal. That's why he was quiet at the meeting.
yitbos
Ah. It’s not “bailing out”. No, it’s “helping”.
“Helping” those poor innocent victim institutions that somehow (Hurricane? Disease?) came to own CDO’s an mortgage debt.
There was certainly NO profit motive on their part. Was there?
No, I’m sure that they were forced to speculate on CDOs by some evil external force, weren’t they.
Poor dears.
WHAT A CROCK!
>> This is about Americans who have never played the stock market or worked in banking losing their pensions, their savings accounts and their life insurance policies.
Ah, and here it comes. The inevitable threat, the extortion, from the GREEDY THUGS that caused the problem.
May they all rot, the sooner the better.
Everything Pelosi, Reid, Obama, and the others said about having a deal was only subterfuge. It was an attempt to keep McCain away and to fraud the public to their side so they could line their pockets and be the hero...again.
A tongue in cheek alternate financial bailout plan conceived by a person or persons unkown:
“Morning Everyone,
I’m against the $85,000,000, 000.00 bailout of AIG.
Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend.
To make the math simple, let’s assume there are
200,000,000 bonafide U. S. Citizens 18+.
Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..
So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.
My plan is to give $425,000 00 to every person 18+ as a
We Deserve It Dividend.
Of course, it would NOT be tax-free.
So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%.
Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000, 000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife has $595,000 .00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 + in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college - it’ll be there
Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car - create jobs
Invest in the market - capital drives growth
Pay for your parent’s medical insurance - health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else
Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks
who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company
that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we’re going to re-distribute wealth let’s really do it... instead of trickling out
a puny $1000.00 ( ‘vote buy’ ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.
If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let’s bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!
As for AIG - liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
Here’s my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn’t.
Sure it’s a crazy idea that can ‘never work.’
But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
How do you spell Economic Boom?
I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion
We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.
And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
Ahhh... I feel so much better getting that off my chest.
Kindest personal regards,
A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic.
PS: Feel free to pass this along to your pals as it’s good for a laugh “
So if the banks decide to slam the loan window for a couple of weeks, they get a trillon dollar revolving line of credit from the Treasury.
In psychologist-speak, this is known as "behavior modification"
Roll over, Fido!
I am sure you are very, very angry with the bankers who structured CDOs. I am sure you are very, very angry with the salespeople who sold the CDOs to pension funds and insurance companies. I'm sure you're very, very angry with the pension fund and insurance company managers who purchased CDO instruments that they did not fully understand.
However, the 3% fee that the above groups pocketed from the sale is (a) mostly spent - ironically, probably on real estate which is now itself under water and (b) even if recovered would not reimburse the full value of the 97% of the CDO price which is now baked into pensions and life insurance policies.
When a patient needs life-saving surgery, beating up the guy who ran the patient over in the first place may be a satisfying exercise - but for the dying victim, it is a waste of time and resources better spent saving him.
A fair point. But if we just put a quick fix in place to keep the leaky boat running for another year or two, we will never fix the systemic issues of lax lending, over leveraging and (especially) the poisonous bets on bond failure.
It's human nature to let it slide, and the next crisis will find us with no arrows left in the quiver.
Which is why McCain and the GOP need to start tackling the systemic problems right now, this week, as a part of this bill.
We also need people who have a track record of prudence and blowing the whistle on excessive risk to manage the process.
Paulson and Bernanke along with their allies Dodd and Schumer, carry so much history of having been part of the gambling culture that I find them completely unsuitable if we're going to get public confidence back.
>> Apparently your emotional immaturity has precluded you from analyzing this crisis intelligently.
You snotty, pedantic browbeating thug. You claim answers that you simply do not have. I can see with my own eyes, and think. Don’t pretend to claim that because I don’t agree with you that somehow I’m not analyzing intelligently. I am by far not alone. And I’m not backing down in the face of your unsubstantiated claims to exclusive knowledge of this issue.
Tell me, what part of the finance industry do you occupy?
Methinks your ox is getting gored. And that, plain and simple, explains your position.
Don't take the dying patient to a public hospital.
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