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McCain's path to victory through Pa.
The Politico ^ | October 22, 2008 | Charles Mahtesian

Posted on 10/22/2008 4:46:44 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Facing seemingly limited options for getting to an Electoral College majority, John McCain’s path to victory likely runs through Pennsylvania, a state that no Republican presidential candidate has won in two decades, a state in which he trails in the polls by a wide margin and a state where in the past year more than a half-million new Democrats have been added to the voter registration rolls.

It’s an unenviable position to be in, except for one thing: Nearly everyone in a position to know thinks the race for Pennsylvania’s 21 electoral votes is considerably tighter than what recent polls reveal.

“There’s a tendency in Pennsylvania for the polls to change dramatically in the final days,” says John Brabender, a top Republican political consultant based in Pittsburgh. “In the governor’s race in 2002, there were polls just a few days out showing [Democratic Gov. Ed Rendell] with a 25-point lead and he ended up losing 50 of 67 counties and won by nine points.”

“I don’t believe there’s a double-digit lead,” said Jon Delano, a western Pennsylvania-based political analyst who also serves as an adjunct professor of Public Policy and Politics at Carnegie Mellon University. “The history of the presidential elections here is different.”

Even top Democrats concede that McCain’s deficit in the polls — 11 percentage points, according to the latest Real Clear Politics polling average — isn’t a solid indicator of his chances of carrying the state. On Tuesday, CNN reported that an anxious Rendell had sent two recent memos to the Obama campaign requesting that the Democratic nominee spend more time campaigning in Pennsylvania.

“The polls don’t necessarily reflect what will happen on Election Day,” said T.J. Rooney, the state Democratic Party chairman. “We’re not a state that’s accustomed to huge blowouts.”

Indeed, John F. Kerry carried Pennsylvania in 2004 by just 144,000 votes out of nearly 6 million votes cast. His win was powered, to a large degree, by an enormous 412,000-vote margin out of Philadelphia.

The McCain campaign's formula for winning the state begins with the notion that, despite voter registration gains and strong support for Obama in Philadelphia, it would be difficult to wring more votes out of the state’s largest city than the Kerry campaign did.

They even believe they can carry a few of the heavily Democratic city’s 66 wards, a feat George W. Bush was unable to accomplish in 2004.

“We’re not convinced they can blow it out again,” said a McCain campaign source.

And in the four populous and historically Republican collar counties surrounding Philadelphia, the campaign believes McCain is a far better fit for the socially moderate suburbs than President Bush.

“McCain is more like a [Tom] Ridge than a Bush,” said the McCain campaign insider, referring to the popular former two-term GOP governor. “That gives suburban voters a comfort level with him. He’s a different kind of Republican in so many ways.”

Yet Republican hopes aren’t predicated on a southeastern Pennsylvania-based strategy since McCain is unlikely to run dramatically better than Bush in that vote-rich region.

Rather, the GOP path to victory runs through the socially conservative parts of the state outside the Philadelphia metropolitan region, and bears a strong resemblance to Hillary Clinton’s winning Democratic primary map.

“How do you flip 140,000 votes? You start by cutting in places like Lackawanna and Luzerne counties,” said the McCain campaign source, referring to Scranton and Wilkes-Barre, the traditionally conservative Democratic population hubs of northeastern Pennsylvania.

McCain also must run well in Lancaster and York counties in central Pennsylvania, two Republican strongholds that have received attention from both the Arizona senator and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. McCain also needs to boost his margins in the state’s Republican “T”, a region which begins at the Maryland state line and runs north through the center of the state before expanding to include the northern tier of counties that border New York.

“Winning Philadelphia is not enough for a done deal,” said Delano. “Whether it’s Scranton, Erie, Altoona, Johnstown or the Pittsburgh area, this is a big state. What McCain is counting on is that a lot of Democrats who voted once against Barack Obama in the primary will vote against him again.”

Western Pennsylvania, many pols believe, seems to hold the most promise for the McCain campaign. McCain expects to run better than Bush in Pittsburgh’s Allegheny County—which Kerry carried by 97,000 votes in 2004—and in southwestern Pennsylvania, where Obama lost to Clinton by landslide margins.

“Democrats who do well in areas like Johnstown, Wilkes-Barre and Pittsburgh are pro-life, pro-gun Democrats like Bob Casey. The Democrats who seem to do poorly in those areas tend to be pro-choice and questionable on guns,” said Brabender. “I think people are going to be shocked by how well McCain is going to do on the western side and in the center part of the state.”

While Democrats acknowledge western Pennsylvania is highly competitive, they remain confident that Obama will carry the state in the end.

“Pennsylvania will be won or lost for Barack Obama in the Philly suburbs,” said state Rep. Josh Shapiro of suburban Philadelphia’s Montgomery County, the third-largest county in the state after Philadelphia and Allegheny counties. “I anticipate the race will be close and in single digits but I also anticipate that Barack Obama will prevail.”

Rooney, the state Democratic chairman, framed it another way.

“It’s going to get closer,” he said. “But at the end of the day, I would much rather be on the side of the lead I think we have than on the other side of it.”


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: 2008; 2008polls; democrats; edrendell; election; elections; mccain; obama; pa2008
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But all the blue-collar voters are breaking for Obama! I heard it on five different shows in the last couple of days....
1 posted on 10/22/2008 4:46:44 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Bitter Clinger Bump


2 posted on 10/22/2008 4:48:48 PM PDT by NetSurfer (BO stinks.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Folks, this Presidential race is over

It cracks me up to hear all the media folks talk about McCain's limited electoral options. He's in the driver's seat. Obama's in a world of hurt.

3 posted on 10/22/2008 4:49:36 PM PDT by impeachedrapist (Bill Clinton, as Arkansas Attorney General did you make Juanita Broaddrick pay for her rape kit?)
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To: impeachedrapist

Yeah, those bitter, racist, rednecks will NEVER vote for Obama! I campaigned in PA for Hillary, yes! They completely despised BO for calling them bitter!


4 posted on 10/22/2008 4:52:43 PM PDT by DoneWithDems
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To: impeachedrapist

Only thing you have to know is the Jon Delano they talked to was a Democrat HACK for Doug Walgren that Rick Santorum beat for his House seat, He is a LOONEY TUNE LEFTIST


5 posted on 10/22/2008 4:53:25 PM PDT by PaRep
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To: impeachedrapist

Only thing you have to know is the Jon Delano they talked to was a Democrat HACK for Doug Walgren that Rick Santorum beat for his House seat, He is a LOONEY TUNE LEFTIST


6 posted on 10/22/2008 4:54:09 PM PDT by PaRep
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Indeed, John F. Kerry carried Pennsylvania in 2004 by just 144,000 votes out of nearly 6 million votes cast. His win was powered, to a large degree, by an enormous 412,000-vote margin out of Philadelphia.

Geez, I wonder how that happened. Rendell is asking Obama to up his payment if he wants that to happen again.

7 posted on 10/22/2008 4:54:45 PM PDT by Azzurri
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To: DoneWithDems

As you can tell by my screen name, you and I will probably disagree more than we agree. But I still want to welcome you to the forum. All are welcome to join forces in turning back the Obamessiah.


8 posted on 10/22/2008 4:55:10 PM PDT by impeachedrapist (Bill Clinton, as Arkansas Attorney General did you make Juanita Broaddrick pay for her rape kit?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Indeed, John F. Kerry carried Pennsylvania in 2004 by just 144,000 votes out of nearly 6 million votes cast. His win was powered, to a large degree, by an enormous 412,000-vote margin out of Philadelphia.

Without vote fraud, Bush would have won PA... AND this time around, they know a) we are watching b) Rendell has no particular love for Obama since he is a Hillary supporter. Plus, Obama will not carry any part other than Philly, inner-city Pittsburgh, and maybe Montgomery County.

9 posted on 10/22/2008 4:56:01 PM PDT by ikka
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I find it curious that Rendell would openly request that Obama come back to PA. If PA was really in jeopardy for Obama, I think this type of communication would have been done under private channels.

My spidey senses are tingling ...

10 posted on 10/22/2008 4:57:53 PM PDT by CatOwner
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To: impeachedrapist

If McCain wins PA, he has a huge advantage.

This is why Obama announced that he will visit his gravely ill white grandma in 3 days time. 6 days of talking points about his white grandma.


11 posted on 10/22/2008 5:00:24 PM PDT by igoramus08
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To: All

My embittered gun toting cousins in Western Pa tell me that you are ostracized for supporting NObama.

Very few yard signs with zero on them.


12 posted on 10/22/2008 5:00:25 PM PDT by rbmillerjr ("There is a PoliticalSurge coming")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
PA and FL decide the election. If one candidate gets both, he wins. If they split, it goes to other states to decide.

McCain can't win without FL, Obama can't win without PA.

13 posted on 10/22/2008 5:01:03 PM PDT by TexasNative2000 (Be bold. Be brave. You're an American.)
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To: TexasNative2000
McCain can't win without FL, Obama can't win without PA

Wrong. If McCain takes PA and Obama takes FL, one of these will be false.

14 posted on 10/22/2008 5:04:51 PM PDT by CatOwner
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To: PaRep

I agree about Jon Delano. I lived in the Pittsburgh area for 46 of my 52 years. He is a Democrat toady cubed. If the Democrats yell s**t, he runs with the shovel.


15 posted on 10/22/2008 5:05:06 PM PDT by appleharvey
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To: igoramus08

I think this visit to Grandma is really just setting up an excuse for his coming loss on Nov. 4th. If she truly is ill, then I don’t blame him for going. I know I would. But I make no apologies for viewing it a bit suspiciously.


16 posted on 10/22/2008 5:05:08 PM PDT by impeachedrapist (Bill Clinton, as Arkansas Attorney General did you make Juanita Broaddrick pay for her rape kit?)
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To: TexasNative2000

I pretty sure McCain will take Florida and yes...even Virgina.
I’m worried about CO and NV. I’ll take PA has a nice cherry on top!


17 posted on 10/22/2008 5:06:00 PM PDT by snarkytart
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To: impeachedrapist

Actually, I am here because I left the democratic party. I am also disgusted with Hillary. How can she campaign for Obama when she KNOWS he is dangerous?


18 posted on 10/22/2008 5:13:55 PM PDT by DoneWithDems
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To: DoneWithDems

My personal opinion is that the Clintons are giving lukewarm support to Obama. They don’t want to alienate Dem power players by blowing off Obama completely, because Hillary may well run again in 2012. But they also don’t want to help him too much, because should he get into office (looking less likely every day) her chance at POTUS would effectively be finished.


19 posted on 10/22/2008 5:17:07 PM PDT by impeachedrapist (Bill Clinton, as Arkansas Attorney General did you make Juanita Broaddrick pay for her rape kit?)
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To: impeachedrapist

Wrong Clinton’s don’t care what the Party Hierarchy thinks, When Obama loses they are going to come crawling back to her


20 posted on 10/22/2008 5:21:15 PM PDT by PaRep
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

On FOX this morning, they said that someone had leaked the Obama camp’s internal polling which showed them ahead by only 2 points. Also, fast Eddie has asked Obama to come back to campaign. That doesn’t show a lot of confidence on their part.


21 posted on 10/22/2008 5:23:43 PM PDT by Ikemeister
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To: Ikemeister

Or it’s major psych-ops.


22 posted on 10/22/2008 5:26:45 PM PDT by CatOwner
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To: TexasNative2000
I am of the belief that Mac will take Ohio and Florida.

He can win but it would be pretty hard.

Mac would need to take the following to win: OH, FL, NC, MO, ND, Nevada. That by itself would be a task in itself (that makes it 265), but then he'd also need to add one more to get him over the top and so he's have to also add CO or PA.

Its hard to read the polls here in CO but people seem to think he's behind?

I know he's been fairly popular in NH, but with only 4 electoral votes he'd have a tie at 279?

That is if my math is adding up?

Either way its going to be one tough task, but I honestly feel he's allot closer than the media and pollsters are letting on and think he just might make it happen. My wife and I are doing what we can to help out here in CO, making phone calls and helping the cause.

23 posted on 10/22/2008 5:39:09 PM PDT by R0CK3T
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To: R0CK3T

I meant to add that VA is in my assessment for McCain.


24 posted on 10/22/2008 5:41:29 PM PDT by R0CK3T
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To: R0CK3T
In your scenario, if he takes NH, they tie at 269.

That's why McCain-Palin is targeting Maine. They split their electoral votes - 2 for statewide winner, 1 for each of their two congressional districts. If McCain wins one of the CD's, he gets that one elector.

Imagine. It could come down to a few hundred moose hunters in Northern Maine.....

25 posted on 10/22/2008 5:42:24 PM PDT by TexasNative2000 (Be bold. Be brave. You're an American.)
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To: TexasNative2000
WOW - did not know that?

Get those billboards up their with Sarah bagging a big one! That would be a stunning way to win if he can't get into the CO or PA race!

26 posted on 10/22/2008 5:46:32 PM PDT by R0CK3T
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To: R0CK3T
That's why McPalin announced they were going to forego Michigan in favor of Maine. They have 4 electoral votes and they could split 3 for Obama, 1 for McCain. Under your scenario, McCain wins 270-268.

Maine instituted this process in response to Bush/Gore 2000. Wouldn't it be sweet if THAT elected McCain?

27 posted on 10/22/2008 5:50:56 PM PDT by TexasNative2000 (Be bold. Be brave. You're an American.)
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To: TitansAFC; meandog; onyx; MARTIAL MONK; GulfBreeze; Kuksool; freespirited; Salvation; furquhart; ...
The McCain List.

A very, very interesting article. The Democrats seem to be pinning their hope on the carrying the suburban Philadelphia counties. I'm not so sure! :-)

28 posted on 10/22/2008 5:52:19 PM PDT by Norman Bates (Freepmail me to be part of the McCain List!)
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To: R0CK3T; TexasNative2000
I've had the opportunity to drive along the Maine coastline multiple times the last 10 days, and over these trips more and more McCain/Palin signs are sprouting all over Sagadahoc, Lincoln, and even Cumberland county each day. Momentum is in our favor! Will have a look at York county tomorrow.
29 posted on 10/22/2008 5:52:34 PM PDT by Shqipo (McCain/Palin rallies.... No rock bands required.)
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To: Norman Bates

Thanks!


30 posted on 10/22/2008 5:58:39 PM PDT by 1035rep
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To: R0CK3T

Here’s how I break it down for McCain’s path to victory:

1) McCain has 163 electoral votes virtually in the bag. This includes 21 states: Alabama (9), Alaska (3), Arizona (10), Arkansas (6), Georgia (15), Idaho (4), Kansas (6), Kentucky (8), Louisiana (9), Mississippi (6), Montana (3), Nebraska (5), North Dakota (3), Oklahoma (7), South Carolina (8), South Dakota (3), Tennessee (11), Texax (34), Utah (5), West Virginia (5), and Wyoming (3).

2) This means McCain needs to somehow deliver 107 more electoral votes. In my opinion, McCain can win 111 votes by winning only states Bush won in both 2000 and 2004. This would include winning the following states: Ohio (20), Florida (27), Colorado (9), Virginia (13), Missouri (11), Nevada (5), Indiana (11), and North Carolina (15). This is still very achievable, although I only have 100% confidence in Florida, Indiana, and North Carolina. `

3) My analysis assumes that Iowa and New Mexico are gone and that McCain won’t win a single Kerry state. His top targets that remain would be Pennsylvania and New Hampshire is a long shot at best. Winning Pennsylvania would be huge for McCain, but I can’t get past the belief that is it a lost cause. I think this talk of internal polls showing a 2 point Obama lead and Rendell asking him to come to the state is a set up. McCain should abandon Pennsylvania and focus on Colorado, Virginia, and Nevada, places where Republicans have had better success in recent elections.


31 posted on 10/22/2008 6:01:22 PM PDT by zebrahead
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To: Norman Bates

Yet another article about McCain having a shot in PA. Makes me think there is indeed something going on here. Rendell and Murtha’s comments sure sound like they are nervous about the state. Would be wild if McCain took it, though unfortunately even that does not guarantee him the election if he loses VA, CO and even NC.


32 posted on 10/22/2008 6:04:11 PM PDT by TNCMAXQ
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To: HamiltonJay

Tell me about Delaware, Bucks, and Montgomery andour expectations there. What about Erie and Pittsburgh?


33 posted on 10/22/2008 6:13:40 PM PDT by Norman Bates (Freepmail me to be part of the McCain List!)
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To: Norman Bates

In the case of Pennsylvania, I think McCain is toast and should cease any spending there. I think Bush proved this in 2004. He seemed obsessed at times in trying to win Pennsylvania and even with the greatest Republican turnout EVER in the state’s history, Bush still lost by 145,000 votes. In my opinion, the only thing that mattered in 2004 in Pennsylvania was how Philadelphia and its suburbs voted. Philadelphia county alone gave John Kerry a 412,000 vote lead in 2004. He carried the county with 81% of the vote. Philadelphia also has 7 ring counties with over 100,000 voters in each county. Kerry won these collective counties (Montgomery, Delaware, Bucks, Lehigh, Berks, Chester, and Northampton) by a margin of 81,435 votes, giving him nearly a half million vote lead just from winning Philadelphia and its suburbs. Throw in Allegheny county, home of Pittsburgh, and its margin of 96,987 votes for Kerry and not even record Republican turnout in places like Lancaster and York counties could make enough of a dent for Bush to win.

With Democratic registrations way up and the bloodbath that was 2006, when Santorum and about 5 Republican congressman lost their seats, I don’t see much reason to be optimistic. Pennsylvania is fool’s gold to me. Maybe the idea is to make your opponent spend time and money in a particular state but all Obama really has to do is hold a massive rally in Philly with Bill Clinton two weeks before the election and Pennsylvania will be safely in his pocket. That’s pretty much all John Kerry did to win the state in 2004. The only thing that could be giving the McCain camp hope is Obama’s poor showing in the primary, but the sheer numbers in favor of the Democrats are too much to overcome.


34 posted on 10/22/2008 6:23:25 PM PDT by zebrahead
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To: ikka; Tribune7; TAdams8591; WhyisaTexasgirlinPA; wireman; Mr. Binnacle; brityank; JrsyJack; ...

*** Philly Metro/Delaware Valley Ping *****


35 posted on 10/22/2008 6:40:28 PM PDT by Kid Shelleen (All things shall be well; You shall see for yourself that all manner of things shall be well)
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To: Norman Bates

Pittsburgh region is clearly is not supporting Fauxbama, I’m sure he’ll win the city proper, but the rest of the region, wouldn’t hold my breath. Eastern PA, from what I hear from folks there, the support is equally as lackluster for the chosen one. Erie as well, the city will probably go for Faux, but the region won’t.


36 posted on 10/22/2008 6:52:12 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: Owl_Eagle; brityank; Physicist; WhyisaTexasgirlinPA; GOPJ; abner; baseballmom; Mo1; Ciexyz; ...

ping


37 posted on 10/22/2008 6:54:51 PM PDT by Tribune7 (Obama wants to put the same crowd that ran Fannie Mae in charge of health care)
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To: HamiltonJay

How about the bitter clinger comments? Are they being played up? Seems like McCain or some 527 should do an ad with these negative comments in areas where it could do some good. Not only in PA either. Should play well in OH, VA, WV, IN and more.


38 posted on 10/22/2008 7:09:20 PM PDT by TNCMAXQ
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To: TNCMAXQ

Haven’t seen any 527’s on the air honestly, other than the NRA ads, only ads on TV I have seen are RNC and McCain. Though I don’t have cable so they may be active there.

The comments are on talk radio daily.

I’m not worried folks, McCain is taking PA.


39 posted on 10/22/2008 7:10:46 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
“Pennsylvania will be won or lost for Barack Obama in the Philly suburbs,”

HAHAHAHA Let them keep believing that... Fauxbama will not take PA.. and he's got problems even in the PHilly Burbs from those I talk to out that way as well.

40 posted on 10/22/2008 7:12:57 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I have had PA as a red state this whole election season, Hillary crushed him in the primaries, add in the “bitter clingers” and you’ve got an uphill battle for Obama. The attacks on Joe The Plumber sealed his fate.


41 posted on 10/22/2008 7:17:28 PM PDT by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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To: snarkytart

We recently moved to OKC, but have retained our house and business in Denver. We fly back and forth each week. Because of Colorado being a swing state, we stayed registered there. Today we voted early. One of our biggest fears was Denver would get a horrendous storm before we could fly in and vote on Nov. 4th. Just could not take the chance. I feel so much better now.

TC


42 posted on 10/22/2008 7:19:55 PM PDT by I_be_tc
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To: zebrahead; HamiltonJay; impeachedrapist

I disagree. Rove thinks McCain will do better than Bush in the ring counties of Philly (I have gotten the impression there is a lot of race politics in the suburbs). There is also polling to substantiate that Obama is underperforming Kerry in Pittsburgh. McCain can be expected to do better in Scranton-WB as well.

As for the 2006 analogy, Obama is no Bob Casey Jr. and will not be seen as a Bob Casey Jr. in PA. Casey cut into the “T” - Obama won’t. I doubt Obama will do as well as Casey did in the Philly suburbs.

The case for winning PA is very credible. I think you are wrong to write off NM as well.


43 posted on 10/22/2008 7:20:10 PM PDT by Norman Bates (Freepmail me to be part of the McCain List!)
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To: Clintonfatigued; LS; fieldmarshaldj

Share your thoughts.


44 posted on 10/22/2008 7:23:23 PM PDT by Norman Bates (Freepmail me to be part of the McCain List!)
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To: CatOwner
Your spidey senses are spot on.

Fast Eddie went public with his 'please come back to PA Barrack' spiel because that gives Rendell cover with the party (I knew we needed him to come back...geez, Hill and Bill did). The same way uber loyalist, John Murtha, has called SW PA racist and redneck? Is Johnny off his meds or going senile...no. He is merely covering his own porked ar$e so after the election he can come out and say 'see I told you they wouldn't vote for 0bama...they're racist.' The internal polls the Dems have must be in the toilet for these two come out and give pre-emptive excuses.

Anecdotally, at work and socially there are one or two (in each group) that are so in awe of The One that they have to 'share' his glory with all within earshot. After their 'sharing' the messianic message...there is (consistantly) a network of 'hushed whispers.' 'I'm not voting for him...she's nuts.' Again, and again. PA is going red.

45 posted on 10/22/2008 7:37:58 PM PDT by PennsylvaniaMom ((Rapping) I say 0bama...you say Ayers. 0bama! Ayers! 0bama! Ayers!)
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To: Norman Bates; kesg; Red in Blue PA; PennsylvaniaMom; impeachedrapist

Someone leaked an alleged internal poll from the Obama campaign which shows him up by only two points.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2112600/posts

Clearly, the McCain campaign wouldn’t be stumping in Western Pennsylvania if their internal numbers showed Obama leading by double digit margins. And the McCain camp isn’t paying their pollsters to lie to them.


46 posted on 10/22/2008 7:38:28 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (If Islam conquers the world, the Earth will be at peace because the human race will be killed off.)
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To: HamiltonJay

I think it is rather fitting that much maligned southwestern Pennsylvania, the buckle of the rust belt, home of the knuckle dragging, racist, bitter, redneck religious, gun nut, clingers, might just be the place to drag John McCain across the victory line. Ironic, huh?


47 posted on 10/22/2008 7:41:13 PM PDT by PennsylvaniaMom ((Rapping) I say 0bama...you say Ayers. 0bama! Ayers! 0bama! Ayers!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

On Bill Bennett this morning a caller who works with Philly unions said that the rank and file are now supporting Obama. They see the Socialism and disapprove. Tough to drive get out the vote and fraud efforts without unions.


48 posted on 10/22/2008 7:43:33 PM PDT by sgtyork (The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage. Thucydides)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

On Bill Bennett this morning a caller who works with Philly unions said that the rank and file are now supporting Obama. They see the Socialism and disapprove. Tough to drive get out the vote and fraud efforts without unions.


49 posted on 10/22/2008 7:43:49 PM PDT by sgtyork (The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage. Thucydides)
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To: sgtyork
They disapprove of socialism and are still coming out for 0bama? What unions are talking about? Cause I can't see (here in the west) the rank and file UMW or USW coming out for Barry. What gives in Philly?
50 posted on 10/22/2008 7:46:33 PM PDT by PennsylvaniaMom ((Rapping) I say 0bama...you say Ayers. 0bama! Ayers! 0bama! Ayers!)
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