Posted on 11/30/2008 9:19:37 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
Many members of Congress believe they know what the car company of the future should look like. “A business model based on gas — a gas-guzzling past — is unacceptable,” Sen. Charles E. Schumer, D-N.Y., said recently. “We need a business model based on cars of the future, and we already know what that future is: the plug-in hybrid electric car.”
But the car company Schumer and other lawmakers envision for the future could turn out to be a money-losing operation, not part of a “sustainable U. S. auto industry” that President-elect Barack Obama and most members of Congress say they want to create.
That’s because car manufacturers still haven’t figured out how to produce hybrid and plug-in vehicles cheaply enough to make money on them.
After a decade of relative success with its hybrid Prius, Toyota has sold about a million of the cars and is still widely believed by analysts to be losing money on each one sold. General_Motors has touted plans for a plug-in hybrid vehicle called the Volt, but the costly battery will prevent it from turning a profit on the vehicle for several years, at least.
“In 10 years are they [GM] going to solve the technological problems with respect to the Volt? Sure,” says Maryann Keller, an automotive analyst and author of a book on GM. “But are they going to be able to stake their survival, which is really more of a now to five-year proposition, on it? I’d say they can’t. They have to stake their future on_Malibus, the Chevy Cruze, and much more conventional technologies.”
U.S. automakers face demands that they provide evidence and assurance that they would use federal bailout money to transform their companies to produce automobiles of the future, using advanced technologies and featuring hybrid or plug-in vehicles.
(Excerpt) Read more at buffalonews.com ...
The failure of the biggest and best funded of those startups, Tesla motors, says you’re wrong.
Well, yes, sorta.
As my life is presently configured, I could live entirely without a car, and once did so for about five years (aside from an occasional rental). I rode my bike a lot, and didn't have kids. I want a car now -- I like to roll around a bit on the weekends, cart the kids to soccer and skating, and wouldn't want to lug the groceries home on foot.
But even including those applications, I average probably 20-30 miles a week for "baseline" driving. That's mostly dropping off and picking up the kids at school; for my own part, I walk and take metro to work. (When the girls are older, they can walk too.) I have only one regular trip (kid's soccer) over 2 miles. With a plug-in hybrid, my gasoline usage would drop to near zero except for vacations and occasional weekend road trips, which account for the great bulk of my mileage.
70% of Americans live in major metro areas and a fair number have driving profiles not unlike mine. Even more could/would if people got more sensible about living closer to their work. Multiply me by several tens of millions of these folks, and we can kick OPEC where it hurts.
I agree that people who need big vehicles and/or who have to drive -- e.g. people in rural areas and people with serious hauling needs -- shouldn't be hamstrung by government edict. But we still shouldn't dismiss the enormous reduction in gasoline usage that hybrids will make possible once the price point is right.
“These ijits just amaze me.” ... I am real sure that I would say ‘amaze’ but it is appropriate. Most of the proponents of cars that have no power or range are pony-tailed metrosexuals that live in a hovel behind their candle store/factory. The sum total of their lives is layed out in a six mile circle around them ... free clinic, whole food store, coffee house, etc. They never venture out into the world taking instead the data from MSNBC as gospel. Their friends live as they do and believe as they do. They need nothing else and believe that anyone who desires more is the enemy. They preach tolerance but are anything but.
You see a lot of that attitude on Democrat Underachievers.
Yes, it will bankrupt them even faster. No matter what people say about how “green” they want to be, when push comes to shove, they’ll opt for the more convenient, powerful, and (yes) cheaper gas vehicles. Why? Because at the end of the day, they’re not insane.
Man, do I loathe these damn politicians.
Based on 2009 model year MSRP and MPG, a five year/75,000 mile economic life and 8% cost of money, I figure the break even point in the choice between a Corolla and Prius is when gasoline is above $6.00/gal. This analysis ignores maintenance and up keep which are assumed to about equal. We are a ways away from economical hybrids/electric cars.
If you really wanted to make a fuel efficient car, you'd be making diesel hybrids anyway. But the typical Prius buyer thinks that air passed through the alimentary canal of a Prius comes out with Pine Fresh aroma, sort of the way they view their own alimentary canal.
Don’t you have to plug these things in?? Where’s that electricity coming from if Oshamba is going to destroy our coal plants???
Actually, clean diesel technology is a cost-effective alternate fuel, and automakers are selling cars in Europe right now using this technology, cars which can get 60mpg combined in a full-size sedan.
But why isn't this available here in the US? Because of government regulations prohibiting it.
Government, once again, is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
But when push really comes to shove, Congress will effectively force them to buy the "green" vehicles through a system of taxes and mandates, whether they want them or not.
When your entire business model depends on how well you can suck up to Congress, things like "convenience," "power," and "cost" are virtually irrelevant tertiary considerations.
After years of being nickle and dimed fixing things that shouldn't have broken in 100,000 miles rather than the 40K to 50K that was the norm, I gave up on them as they have given up on quality and on the people who bought their cars.
I took a lot of grief from people who told me it was unpatriotic to buy a Toyota or a Honda, but the real lack of patriotism was from the Americans who built crap and stuck a "Made in the USA" label on it.
My Tacoma was made in Fremont, California and is the absolute best vehicles I've ever owned. Who needs crap from the Big 2.5 when I can get a competitively priced, fantastic, reliable car or truck made right here in my country by my fellow Americans?
SHHHH...god has spoken...lololol
if this d!chead has the info, then why is the tech still lagging ???
mandating tech advances is utterly retarded, and my apologies to functioning retards everywhere...
the emissions/cafe bullpoopie completely wasted the whole generation of late 70s-late 80s models, making them junkier than the uaw coulda dreamed of...
eventually we got to 'decent' port fuel injection, at the cost of user-friendliness in the home garage...and it still aint 'clean' enough...
now crash any one of those things on a public road and have citizens/emergency personnel dealing with thw twisted mess...
Really, its worse than that.
They do care; they care that we are free and mobile, and that it reduces their power over us, so they will continue to chip away at our freedom. Electric cars, and CNG cars are the death of freedom.
The idea of producing a battery powered automobile with a very limited range and which must be recharged from an already strained electrical grid is ludicrous. It is even more ridiculous when Obama has promised us skyrocketing electric rates.
"A business model based on gas -- a gas-guzzling past -- is unacceptable," Sen. Charles E. Schumer, D-N.Y., said recently. "We need a business model based on cars of the future, and we already know what that future is: the plug-in hybrid electric car."That's just nuttier than a gay porn movie.
If any of them would care to stroll over to a VW dealership, they might learn that the (or at least "a") short-medium term (25 years) solution is already here. It is called the modern, clean-burning diesel engine. If 50% of the country's fleet were diesel-powered, there would be a huge difference in our national need to import oil.
Of course, some green a$$hat in the government has got to end these insane "boutique" diesel fuel super-refining requirements.... we begged George Bush to consider this via executive order... and to set 1 set of national standards. Not even the late John McCain could be persuaded ... despite having received a great deal of technical training, including Thermodynamics, at our expense at Annapolis.
Auto execs must take some heat here, too. All over the world, diesel automobiles are proving themselves every day ... except here. Diesel for transportation. Nuclear for electricity. More Natural Gas for industry ... and 100 years ... if ever... to go on to oil's successor as an energy source.
A huge difference? What do consider huge? 10% reduction in imported oil?
A 10% reduction would be an amazing start. I don't consider importing oil to be a major mistake ... just so much of it. If, within the next decade, we could reduce oil imports by 25%, it would be a great way to exert some downward pressure on crude prices. Increased domestic production and refining capacity is necessary, too.
It would probably take longer to switch 50% of the personal transportation fleet to diesel anyway. The Japanese cars we know and love, like the Toyota Corolla, etc. etc. are already available as clean diesels, as are most European cars. Imagine the soccer moms getting 40mpg in their minivans. My VW TDI, getting 50mpg ... no problem! My old MB 300td Wagon, 35mpg on the highway ...no problem, except being older tech, it is smoky when cold.
NEWS FLASH! Oil is just wonderful as a source of cheap, clean energy! Diesels for transport. Nuclear for Electricity. Coal for chemicals. Natural Gas for industry and domestic co-generation. All real, all real cool right now tech to get us over the hump to the next generation over the next 50 years.
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