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Who Would Jesus Smack Down?
Wall Street Journal ^ | 01-06-09 | Molly Worthen

Posted on 01/11/2009 2:53:36 PM PST by em2vn

Mark Driscoll’s sermons are mostly too racy to post on GodTube, the evangelical Christian “family friendly” video-posting Web site. With titles like “Biblical Oral Sex” and “Pleasuring Your Spouse,” his clips do not stand a chance against the site’s content filters. No matter: YouTube is where Driscoll, the pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, would rather be. Unsuspecting sinners who type in popular keywords may suddenly find themselves face to face with a husky-voiced preacher in a black skateboarder’s jacket and skull T-shirt. An “Under 17 Requires Adult Permission” warning flashes before the video cuts to evening services at Mars Hill, where an anonymous audience member has just text-messaged a question to the screen onstage: “Pastor Mark, is masturbation a valid form of birth control?”

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: acts29; bully; calvinism; church; driscoll; marshill; resurgence; wwjd
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Some correct, some incorrect and all bad.
1 posted on 01/11/2009 2:53:36 PM PST by em2vn
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To: em2vn

marvel ye that, having once rebelled, protestantism veereth into all manner of perversion?


2 posted on 01/11/2009 2:56:37 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (revolution is in the air.)
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To: the invisib1e hand

I’m familiar with Driscoll. He is far from perverted. Frank at times, certainly, but that is the worst that can be said about him.


3 posted on 01/11/2009 2:58:14 PM PST by jude24
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To: em2vn
Who Would Jesus Smack Down?

TV evangelists. He told me so this morning.

4 posted on 01/11/2009 2:58:34 PM PST by humblegunner (Where my PIE at, fool?)
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To: em2vn
is masturbation a valid form of birth control

I believe it's generally 100% effective.

5 posted on 01/11/2009 3:03:25 PM PST by Sherman Logan (Everyone has a right to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.)
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To: Sherman Logan

Note his answer (which was not included in the excerpt) - no.


6 posted on 01/11/2009 3:06:00 PM PST by jude24
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To: humblegunner

Who Would Jesus Smack Down?

Everybody gets smacked. Some just a lot harder than others. And for still others it’s more like a tag between teamates at a WWE event. ;)


7 posted on 01/11/2009 3:07:11 PM PST by shoutingandpointing (Just say, "nn-nn-NO!" to Campbell's soup.)
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To: jude24
I’m familiar with Driscoll. He is far from perverted. Frank at times, certainly, but that is the worst that can be said about him.

Ahh. Well, then there's the correct definition of "perverse" to consider.

8 posted on 01/11/2009 3:08:21 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (revolution is in the air.)
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To: Sherman Logan

Depends on what you’re masturbating into.


9 posted on 01/11/2009 3:08:27 PM PST by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: em2vn

Seriously, folks, I think there’s an answer on that exact point in the Gospels.


10 posted on 01/11/2009 3:09:50 PM PST by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: RichInOC

Lol, I’m still laughing.


11 posted on 01/11/2009 3:10:10 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: All

I was pre-destined to reject Calvinism. But when the Master knocks, I’ll open the door anytime.


12 posted on 01/11/2009 3:10:21 PM PST by BipolarBob (Even the earth is bipolar.)
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To: em2vn

This is one CRUDE church.


13 posted on 01/11/2009 3:10:49 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: RichInOC
Seriously, folks, I think there’s an answer on that exact point in the Gospels.

Yeah. This one:

Next Pastor Mark is warning them about lust and exalting the confines of marriage, one hand jammed in his jeans pocket while the other waves his Bible.

His style turns some people off. His teaching, however, is unquestionably orthodox.

14 posted on 01/11/2009 3:12:17 PM PST by jude24
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To: nmh

Ezekiel and Hosea and Song of Solomon offend your dainty sensibilities too.


15 posted on 01/11/2009 3:12:55 PM PST by jude24
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To: em2vn
WWJD?

Who wants Jack Daniel's?

Heck... I DO ;-)

16 posted on 01/11/2009 3:15:21 PM PST by Trajan88 (www.bullittclub.com)
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To: jude24
“Ezekiel and Hosea and Song of Solomon offend your dainty sensibilities too.”

No, but Driscol is no Christian.

He's crude and need of attention. I wouldn't be caught dead in his church or near someone like that. He gives Christianity a foul name.

17 posted on 01/11/2009 3:15:21 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: jude24

Excerpt:

Driscoll doesn’t miss a beat:

“I had one guy quote Ecclesiastes 9:10, which says, ‘Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might.’ ”

The audience bursts out laughing.

Next Pastor Mark is warning them about lust and exalting the confines of marriage, one hand jammed in his jeans pocket while the other waves his Bible. Even the skeptical viewer must admit that whatever Driscoll’s opinion of certain recreational activities, he has the coolest style and foulest mouth of any preacher you’ve ever seen.”

His foul mouth and crudness makes him the kind of person Christ would “smack down”. He is disgusting.


18 posted on 01/11/2009 3:17:41 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh
No, but Driscol is no Christian.

I'm sure you came to that conclusion after extensive study. Especially since you couldn't be bothered to spell his name correctly.

He's crude and need of attention.

Being "crude" is hardly a disqualifier. Re-read Ezekiel 20, and get back to me about Driscoll's alleged "crude"ness.

19 posted on 01/11/2009 3:18:39 PM PST by jude24
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To: BipolarBob
I was pre-destined to reject Calvinism.
But when the Master knocks,
I’ll open the door anytime


I like Tulips
Do you like Tulips?

Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints
20 posted on 01/11/2009 3:20:48 PM PST by HangnJudge
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To: nmh
Wow, if that offends you, this will really offend you:
. 16 When she saw them, she lusted after them and fsent messengers to them ein Chaldea. 17 And the Babylonians came to her ginto the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoring lust. And after she was defiled by them, hshe turned from them in disgust. 18 When she carried on her whoring so openly and flaunted her nakedness, I turned in disgust from her, as I had turned in disgust from her sister. 19 Yet she increased her whoring, iremembering the days of her youth, when she played the whore in the land of Egypt 20 and lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose issue was like that of horses. 21 Thus you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when the Egyptians handled your bosom and pressed​3 your young breasts.”
Ezekiel 23:16-21

21 posted on 01/11/2009 3:22:20 PM PST by jude24
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To: em2vn

George Bush for being a sell out to Republican Ideals. If George Bush was Jewish he’d be the type to rat out his fellow Jews to the Nazis. The man and his compassionate conservatism had ruined the republican party. Should have known he was joke just like his Father was. NO MORE BUSH! They gave the Republican party a fatal STD.


22 posted on 01/11/2009 3:23:33 PM PST by MAD-AS-HELL (How does one win over terrorists? KILL them with UNKINDNESS)
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To: jude24
I think what you need, jude24 is some good hardcore porn.

Instead of trying ot hide behind “religion” to view it and hear someone joke about it. I understand porn is a major problem within the so called “Christian” community.

jude24, just go for it. Rent the XXXX movies and rent XXXXXX pronographiz humor and pretend it's Driscoll oir however you want to spell his name. Driscoll is disgusting. I'm not surprised at all that the New York Times LOVES this pervert pretending to be a “Christian”.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/magazine/11punk-t.html?_r=2&emc=eta1

The NYT is run by a bunch of homosexuals.

“Even the skeptical viewer must admit that whatever Driscoll’s opinion of certain recreational activities, he has the coolest style and foulest mouth of any preacher you’ve ever seen. “

No argument here.

I'm not interested in a foul mouthed person that is NO Christian.

23 posted on 01/11/2009 3:29:09 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: jude24
"16 When she saw them, she lusted after them and fsent messengers to them ein Chaldea. 17 And the Babylonians came to her ginto the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoring lust. And after she was defiled by them, hshe turned from them in disgust. 18 When she carried on her whoring so openly and flaunted her nakedness, I turned in disgust from her, as I had turned in disgust from her sister. 19 Yet she increased her whoring, iremembering the days of her youth, when she played the whore in the land of Egypt 20 and lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose issue was like that of horses. 21 Thus you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when the Egyptians handled your bosom and pressed​3 your young breasts.” Ezekiel 23:16-21 "

I would bet you know every sinful passage in the Bible that promotes sex in ways God doesn't want us to indulge in. Jude24, you have serious problems ... . You should read on and see what correct behavior is instead of dwelling on the sensational.

Knock off the "Christian veneer" and get the raw porn you yearn for. Stop the high brow "Christian" charade thing. It's unbecoming even for YOU.

24 posted on 01/11/2009 3:33:04 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: MAD-AS-HELL

That is a disgusting comment. Shame on you.


25 posted on 01/11/2009 3:35:03 PM PST by Jean S
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To: nmh
You really don't get it, do you?

The point is that the Bible is not delicate.

26 posted on 01/11/2009 3:35:19 PM PST by jude24
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To: jude24

No, I meant as to whom Jesus would smack down.


27 posted on 01/11/2009 3:40:36 PM PST by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: jude24

What might offend me is someone using the inspired word of God in a misguided attempt to defend this preacher.

These “hip” preachers always give me the willies.


28 posted on 01/11/2009 3:42:13 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998

Christianity has always offended religious people, so that doesn’t surprise me.


29 posted on 01/11/2009 3:44:10 PM PST by jude24
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To: jude24
“You really don't get it, do you?
The point is that the Bible is not delicate.”

No, YOU don't get it!

Not ONCE did Christ or any of His apostles TALK like THAT or make sex crude.

The OPPOSITE was stressed with respect and love.

jude24, YOU are a disappointment.

30 posted on 01/11/2009 3:45:28 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: jude24
“You really don't get it, do you?
The point is that the Bible is not delicate.”

No, YOU don't get it!

Not ONCE did Christ or any of His apostles TALK like THAT or make sex crude.

The OPPOSITE was stressed with respect and love.

jude24, YOU are a disappointment.

Lift yourself UP from the gutter.

31 posted on 01/11/2009 3:47:22 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: jude24

“You really don’t get it, do you?
The point is that the Bible is not delicate.”

No, YOU don’t get it!

Not ONCE did Christ or any of His apostles TALK like THAT or make sex CRUDE.

The OPPOSITE was stressed with respect and love.

jude24, YOU are a disappointment.

Lift yourself UP from the gutter.


32 posted on 01/11/2009 3:47:42 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh
Not ONCE did Christ or any of His apostles TALK like THAT or make sex crude.

I very much doubt that a carpenter and fishermen were shocked by blue talk.

33 posted on 01/11/2009 3:48:24 PM PST by jude24
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To: jude24

Christianity has never offended me.

Abuses of it has.

- Especially by those who pretend they are the only ones who are Christians and anyone who objects is someone just religious without being Christian.


34 posted on 01/11/2009 4:00:57 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998

Goes both ways.


35 posted on 01/11/2009 4:02:30 PM PST by jude24
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To: em2vn

This is simply the next phase in the “Emerging/Emergent Church” movement.


36 posted on 01/11/2009 4:11:57 PM PST by John Leland 1789
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To: HangnJudge

The Armenian ultimately believes the God couldn’t save them if He wanted to. Because the creator of the universe isn’t powerful enough to makes us desire Him.


37 posted on 01/11/2009 4:28:13 PM PST by Karma Police ((optional, printed after your name on post))
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To: jude24
"Re-read Ezekiel 20, and get back to me about Driscoll's alleged "crude"ness"

Can't say I know anything about this Driscoll guy, but what is so hardcore about Ezekiel Chapter 20? Mostly about the Lord God condemning the house of Israel for abandoning His commandments.

38 posted on 01/11/2009 4:33:17 PM PST by Upstate NY Guy
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To: Karma Police
The Armenian ultimately believes the
God couldn’t save them if He wanted to.
Because the creator of the universe isn’t
powerful enough to makes us desire Him.

I suspect God is quite capable of doing Anything He Chooses
Perhaps, however, God may Choose to Limit Himself
I'm just going to have to ask Him, next time we Talk

39 posted on 01/11/2009 4:38:32 PM PST by HangnJudge
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To: jude24

No, it doesn’t.

I never addressed you as “religious” as opposed to Christian.

So, it’s all coming from you.


40 posted on 01/11/2009 4:44:20 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: MAD-AS-HELL

I think you’re on the wrong thread, or maybe on the wrong site, or in the wrong universe, or all three.


41 posted on 01/11/2009 4:44:54 PM PST by browardchad
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To: Karma Police
Because the creator of the universe isn’t powerful enough to makes us desire Him

Contrary: many will be called but few will be chosen
42 posted on 01/11/2009 4:46:07 PM PST by SisterK (the UN Headquarters needs to relocate to Iran)
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To: em2vn

The Apostle Paul said, “I am determined to know nothing among you save Christ, and him crucified.”

Unfortunately, that’s not a sufficiently sexy subject for some preaching charlatans.


43 posted on 01/11/2009 4:54:20 PM PST by Elsiejay
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To: sionnsar

WA ping


44 posted on 01/11/2009 5:06:41 PM PST by Fractal Trader
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To: em2vn

Obama, because of his support for abortion.


45 posted on 01/11/2009 5:41:05 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Libertina; RedinaBlue; trustandhope; SoldierMedic; Global2010; Keith Brown; torqemada; WKL815; ...
D'oh! My church had a visitor from there last year, a couple of times I think. As I recall he was looking at other Christian faiths as part of his education.

Washington State Ping Banner: Thanks to Fractal Trader for the ping.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
Say WA? Evergreen State ping

FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this ping list.

Ping sionnsar if you see a Washington state related thread.

46 posted on 01/11/2009 5:50:50 PM PST by sionnsar (Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)|http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com/|RCongressIn2Years)
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To: Karma Police
The Armenian ultimately believes

LOL. Armenians are a nation and ethnic group originating in the Caucasus and in the Armenian Highlands, while Arminians are followers of Jacob Arminius and his followers.

47 posted on 01/11/2009 7:46:57 PM PST by RochesterFan
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To: RochesterFan; Karma Police

I was predestined to be an Arminian but I’m considering choosing Calvinism.


48 posted on 01/11/2009 7:56:01 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido

New tagline.


49 posted on 01/11/2009 7:56:40 PM PST by Larry Lucido (I was predestined to be an Arminian but I’m considering choosing Calvinism.)
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To: jude24

>> Christianity has always offended religious people, so that doesn’t surprise me.

Agreed. People often get so lost in their own piousness, that they lose the message entirely. Christ Himself offended many ... He spoke to prostitutes and tax collectors — He was controversial — He slammed the pious and embraced the sinner.

I wonder if anyone here actually read the article, or whether they got caught up in the sensational stuff from the beginning. This pastor may have an unorthodox delivery ... but he seems to be EXACTLY on point with a LOT of his overall message.

For instance ...

“What really grates is the portrayal of Jesus as a wimp, or worse. Paintings depict a gentle man embracing children and cuddling lambs. Hymns celebrate his patience and tenderness. The mainstream church, Driscoll has written, has transformed Jesus into “a Richard Simmons, hippie, queer Christ,” a “neutered and limp-wristed popular Sky Fairy of pop culture that . . . would never talk about sin or send anyone to hell.””

This has often bothered me. Christ is ALWAYS portrayed as meek, gentle, quiet, timid, unassuming ... almost a wallflower. This portrayal HAS to be an error. This is a man who literally convinced people, by sight and sound alone, that He was the Son of God. He must have been a commanding presence, a fantastic speaker, and an imposing authoritative figure. Sure, he was kind and gentle, but crowds wouldn’t gather to hear a meek, timid speaker ... they’d gather to hear booming oratory from a man whose presence was commanding.

From the story ... “They [Driscoll’s Calvinists] are not “the next big thing” but a protest movement, defying an evangelical mainstream that, they believe, has gone soft on sin and has watered down the Gospel into a glorified self-help program.”

Honestly, I can get on board with this guy in many respects. I don’t agree with every word he says ... but, I’m a Baptist, not a Calvinist. But, I respect his message, his delivery, and that he reaches an audience that your standard, overly-pious fellowship hall may not reach. He’s not light on sin, he’s not a self-help fellowship ... and he’s bringing people to Christ. Good for him.

And, as for the sexual stuff — there is much to enjoy within the confines of marriage. Obey the Commandments, but enjoy away.

SnakeDoc


50 posted on 01/11/2009 9:14:16 PM PST by SnakeDoctor ("You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas." -- David Crockett)
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