A pathetic case for an old earth

CMI ^ | Lita Cosner

[GodGunsGuts]

Books claiming that science disproves ‘young-earth’ creationism are very common, and books that claim the Bible itself does not mandate a literal interpretation of the first few chapters of Genesis are not in short supply either. David Snoke’s book A Biblical Case for an Old Earth ostensibly falls in the latter group, though his main reason for rejecting biblical creation is really uniformitarian ‘science’. Books like these generally don’t pose a threat to informed creationists, and this one is no exception. In fact, Snoke could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he had actually taken the time to read more creationist literature; most of the things he cites as problems for creationists have been answered years ago.

First, some clear flaws in the book must be pointed out. It takes an amazing amount of arrogance to think that someone can refute young-earth creationism in any kind of detail in a book less than 200 pages long, and with just over 4 pages of endnotes which cite only half a dozen actual creationist works. The only creationist book he cites is The Genesis Flood, which is over 45 years old. No mention of Refuting Compromise for example that refutes almost all his arguments.1 And the most up-to-date creationist article cited is from 1993. Clearly this is a man at the cutting edge!

Incompetent arrogance...

[tacticalogic]

Because it contradicts God’s word.

Then you don't believe all things are possible. Only those things that don't contradict your reading of the Bible.

[ExGeeEye]

hermaphroditic spices don't make for good BBQ.

j/k

[demshateGod]

Thanks for the ping, the reply on this thread are hateful.

[demshateGod]

“He just now got around to creating physical things”

Here’s a few things you should consider before using that argument as proof or a vehicle to condescend those “good folks”. God is self sufficient. He had no need to create us. He was enjoying His existence without us, praise God He brought us into existence. God is not bound by time. It’s not like He waitied 819 billion years after He was created before finally getting around to creating the universe. He has always existed. I like to think that for Him time is just like looking at an object. You also can’t say he created the angels then waited 700 million years to create the universe.

[demshateGod]

I wonder what perspicuous means.....looking up...Hm, that doesn’t explain what your phrase means though. I’ll just have to guess based on context. Does it mean the people using the KJV as literal truth can’t do so if the earth is billions of years old? That’s true. Which means God gave us no revelation of Himself.

[demshateGod]

“WHY would the Heavenly Father turn His back, and allow..........”

Here’s your answer:

Mat 13:25-30 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn

“WHY would the Heavenly Father turn His back, and allow..........”

The Bible is long, there’s a lot of stuff in there. Many concepts are dealt with. If your question is not rhetorical I can give you an answer. But if you were asking the question in order to say, “A Heavenly Father would not allow the masses to believe garbage” then your mind is made up and this scripture wont help you.

[demshateGod]

“the 6000 year old earth folks don’t believe God can work in mysterious...”

Lazy strawman alert!

[Fiji Hill]

The culprit who claimed, "this work took place and man was created by the Trinity on October 23, 4004 B.C., at nine o'clock in the morning." wasJ...John Lightfoot (1602-1675), Vice-Chancellor of Cambridge University...a contemporary of Ussher. Lightfoot published his calculations in 1644, before Ussher's were completed.

On October 23, 1972 at nine in the morning,(Pacific Daylight Time), my geology class at Occidental College, taught by the noted glaciologist Joe Birman, was about to begin, when students from the Geology Department, accompanied by a camera crew from NBC, barged into the room and announced that instead of listening to a lecture, we would ba having a party to celebrate the anniversary of the creation of the earth. The event was shown on the local news broadcast later in the day.

[Vaquero]

Lazy strawman alert!

who? you? well your right.

[TXnMA]

LOL!! What a prank!

Reminds me of the TV crew a "Famous Creation 'Scientist'" had invited in to photograph the "Giant Man Tracks" he had "discovered" (actually carved in mud) alongside the limestone dinosaur tracks near Glen Rose, TX. When they saw the big "X" I had scrawled across the largest "footprint" with my FIL's pocketknife, they said, "No, thanks" -- and packed up and left... '-)

[demshateGod]

Because God told us otherwise in His word.

[Natural Law]

Here are a few questions for both sides of the argument:

1) If evolution exists, wouldn't God have created it?

2) Did God create mathematics and calculus?

3) Did God create DNA?

4) Did God create the Laws of Physics and Thermodynamics?

5) If God created all of the above why is any "theory" that utilizes them in support considered evil?

[demshateGod]

Oh, well if the pope agrees the Bible is wrong......

[demshateGod]

Do you allow for other possibilities? Is it only that GGG is crazy or pathologically ignorant? “You’re one of the crazy Christians” is a bigoted comment. It’s intellectually lazy and becoming of liberals to dismiss people so quickly.

[Fiji Hill]

ROTFL!

[demshateGod]

“over all the others that mankind has produced.”

I’ll answer your question for myself, being a “creationist”.

Let God be true and every man a liar. Romans 3:4

Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

[demshateGod]

I’ve started a couple posts in response to yours, then stopped. I just can’t let your statement stand unchallenged. Where to start though, you just don’t know what you’re talking about. If you had honestly and sincerely tried to live according to God’s Word and cherished His Word you wouldn’t think this way.

Fundamentalism and legalism don’t belong in the same adjective combination. People may have been scarred by Legalism but no one has been scarred by the truth of God’s word (fundamentalism). So what you’re saying is you can’t witness to people because they believe a lie (old earth dogma)?

I don’t know why you would witness to people if you believe that dogma.

[Diego1618]

Here’s a few things you should consider before using that argument as proof or a vehicle to condescend those “good folks”.

You are correct in much of what you say.....but consider: [Isaiah 14:12-17] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Would not this scripture indicate to you that Satan and his Angels were existing in some type of physical creation prior to Eden?

He evidently had been a previous resident and was in a fallen state when he encountered Adam and Eve: [Ezekiel 28:11-15] Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

[Jude 6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

What would have been the Angel's first estate?

God is indeed self sufficient and sometimes I do wonder why he created us. I'm sure the reason will be evident when we are told.

[TXnMA]

"Because it contradicts God’s word. Although, I must admit I find a six day creation far more impressive than 4.5 billion years."

No, it contradicts your ego-centered misinterpretation of His Word (which is absolutely true).

If you knew the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, eternal, timeless Creator Whom I worship, you would be amazed that He bothered to share with us that his design, creation, formation, direction, development and maintenance of His universe took any time at all. Instead, you insist on cramming your shrunken deity into an earth-limited timeframe that your mind can encompass -- despite the manifold witness of His majestic Creation:

(Click on this image of a miniscule fragment of His Creation for data that shames your Ussherian confinement of I AM into your Sistine ceiling image of Him.)

[demshateGod]

Satan and his angels were in heaven, their first estate. They were cast down to earth prior to meeting Adam and Eve.