TOTALITARIANISM? THIS IS OUR FUTURE!

n/a | February 22, 2009 | A Navy Vet

[A Navy Vet]

The people wanted stuff and now they are getting it. And they will find out much to their chagrin.

As one of our Founding Fathers once said, to paraphrase, "Once the people realize they can vote themselves the treasury, the Republic is lost".

This is now the case. Our wonderful experiment in freedom and opportunity is almost gone. With socialist/Marxists now in control of (2) of our (3) "balance of powers", we are heading over the cliff...soon to be thrown upon the rocks of history.

I see no going back within the corrupt moneyed political process. The system is broken. We all know it...at least those of us who care about the INTENT.

So what's left for us who revere our Constitutional principles and what it stands for?

I suggest rather than spending our money on political parties, which has been to no avail, we contribute to those who have standing and SUE against every single Federal government legislation that is contrary to our Constitution and original INTENT of the Founding Fathers and that is also contrary to every State's Constitution.

We should CONTEST every single Federal legislation that is contrary to CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS 9th and 10th as well as the Constitution in general! Through too many years, our Constitution has been distorted, spun, twisted, and re-worked to benefit those who don't contribute to our societal compact. Our individual States have lost much of their sovereignty and the power of people of those states.

If the above doesn't work, than it is our duty, as written in the Declaration of Independence to "...it is the right of the People to alter or abolish it (government), and to institute new government..."

We have long experienced our basic rights eroded by self-serving politicians and bureaucrats. How much longer will we indebt our children and grand-children for unattainable Utopian ideals?

So where do we go from here? Sue and/or rise up?

I say both!

Disclaimer: I am not advocating violence nor sedition at this time.

[Nateman]

A great organization for this already exists. Its called the Institute for Justice. I do think there is still a chance. Here is my plan.

[familyop]

“As one of our Founding Fathers once said, to paraphrase, ‘Once the people realize they can vote themselves the treasury, the Republic is lost’.”

On that quote, you might want to have a look at the information behind the following. But I agree with the observation behind that quote, whoever said it first.

http://www.lorencollins.net/tytler.html
The Truth About Tytler
by Loren Collins
[A real candidate of the Bull Moose Party itself—a Party that I disagree with on some matters.]

As for Obama and tax hikes on those making over $250,000 per year,...

http://falconparty.com/

[BigCinBigD]

To paraphrase someone else. War is a bad thing, but not the worst of things.

[A Navy Vet]

Yes, I know it was Tytler who supposedly said it first. I've even quoted him on other threads. I say "Founding Fathers" because Franklin also restated the ideology and he was a "Founding Father".

But yes, Alexander Tytler supposedly said" A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

Franklin said something similar. Can't find it right now. But I believe I read where Franklin was paraphrasing Tytler.

However, this is still some question as to who first posed this thesis. http://www.lorencollins.net/tytler.html

To me, it doesn't matter where it originated. I only care that the statement is a truism. It has always been true and it will always be true. Such is the nature of mankind. And that is why our great nation is doomed to fail.

People want stuff and are selfish. Throughout history, people are greedy or lazy or incompetent and perpetuate those characteristics.

The above is partially why our economy is failing. Free-enterprise is probably the best economic system ever developed. However, without some small societal controls, we are now seeing how it could self-destruct.

I was a Reananite for many years until I learned that there need be some small regulations on certain parts of our industry.

[familyop]

I agree with what you wrote in comment #5. Too many people in special interests (families with relatives in business, government and education) want money without much effort to earn it. And, IMO, some of them do try to stop their neighbors from starting small businesses.

I’m cramming CAD knowledge and learning to use a cheap (but good) CAD package (QCAD) and building code (IRC) here. I know how to build but haven’t made building plans before.

...will resume digging rocky soil and wheel-barrowing concrete with all kinds of poor foreign nationals for aging, fellow Baby Boomer, tantrum-throwing, drunk/drugged, hippie/liberaltarian, citizen-of-the-world, spoiled brats (who say that I am worthless through their sponsored, liberal media) as soon as the weather allows in order to fund my little project. And I’m in my fifties.

We can’t have fiscal conservatism without moral conservatism.

[Leftism is Mentally Deranged]

The USSR, Romania, Poland and other countries threw off the shackles of communism. We will be able to do it too.

[A Navy Vet]

Yeah, there is always some organization out there that is trying. They are usually more about promoting their org or getting face time on radio and TV than actually getting things done, or they are just a think tank that puts out papers that nobody reads.

Believe me, I know. I've experience many of them personally and know about and followed many others. I was on the front lines to impeach clinton, and even a street activist before that. Ever hear of the "March For Justice"? back in 1998 that was initiated on this very board? I was the lead organizer.

How far has all that gotten us conservatives? We are deeper in socialist shit than we've ever been. Hell, I and a few other old-timers on this board, including Jim Robinson, have been working for conservative causes for years - to no avail.

It's time to think outside the box. It's time to think like the liberals do. It's time to take action, whether through lawsuits or civil disobedience. Not that I'm advocating anything illegal.

Nicey nice protests, demonstrations, marches and such gatherings do nothing! DC doesn't hear us. We Constitutionalists need a new approach. We need to do something radical to get their attention.

If not, we will absolutely lose our Republic, as we see it slipping away every day with the Obama/Reid/Pelosi cobal. Their is NO doubt any longer. It's even being talked about on the Fox News, and to a lessor extent CNBC (financial channel).

It is time to revolt.

BTW, kudos to kristinn and the DC folks who have been out there for years fighting the good fight. Also, Bob J who tried to heard cats with Free Republic Network.

[familyop]

On “small regulations,” are you referring to regulations against stealing from investors and pocketing too much money from the Government? I’m all for that and common sense.

[Canedawg]

Other countries were able to hold off communism as long as the USA remained a beacon and leader of the Free World. Who will help us? The last free country left will be Israel, but they have their own stuff to deal with.

Another difference between us and other countries is the high level of technological communication and propaganda used by this Marxist regime.

A disingenuous but highly effective campaign was waged to win the WH using propaganda, MSM and the internet.

The means and weapons used to take control of the govt present a formidable challenge, but this domestic enemy must be defeated before they turn us into a turd world country.

[A Navy Vet]

Good for you for working towards your future. I applaud you and admire you.

YOU are the quintessential American self-built man. Although, I hope you are not hiring illegal aliens when you say "poor foreign nationals". That's where we would part company. I'm a former Minuteman. I don't want illegals taking jobs our own countrymen need.

That aside, I've done "digging in the dirt", as well as, other shit jobs in my life (started at 16 in a widget factory). I've been dirt poor (sleeping in my car), lower middle-class, then middle-class, then poor again (military years), rich (luck into a company out of Navy), and now finally middle-class...all due to my own efforts.

So you know what it takes to make a living. Again, my congrats to you. But Obami wants to take that away from your efforts and hard-earned tax dollars away from you and me and my wife.

What to do, guy? You're in your later years. Are you willing to face down the Marxist government Obami wants to instill on our Republic? I ask, because I know where you've been and also you told me your age.

Personally, I am ready for anything. We've seen it all. It may time to fight once again. Don't know if you ever did, but I spent 11 years in the Navy during the cold war with Soviets trailing us and itching to blow us out of the water.

[central_va]

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.

                  John Stuart Mill

[A Navy Vet]

"The USSR, Romania, Poland and other countries threw off the shackles of communism. We will be able to do it too."

I have come to the conclusion that we may not be as able.
We are now quickly sliding into socialism and may not return. People want stuff. Therefore, they vote those in who will give them their stuff.

The obscene part of this equation is that no one bothers to learn from the past. How ironic that Russia and China are both becoming more capitalistic than the US.

[central_va]

Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!

           Patrick Henry

I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way.

           John Paul Jones

[Semper Mark]

...”it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it
(goverment), and to institute a new goverment...”

I say it’s the DUTY of the people to alter or abolish it.

“How much longer will we indebt our children and grand-children to unattainable Utopian ideals.”

I believe the founding fathers, and the brave patriots
who fought, had purposed in their hearts that their actions
were not for themselves but for the generations to come.

We owe it to our children and grand-children to stop this
hi-jacking of our nation before it’s too late.

It’s our country dammit! Rise up!

[familyop]

"The USSR, Romania, Poland and other countries threw off the shackles of communism. We will be able to do it too."

That was started by Vaclav Havel (Czech) with "nonpolitical politics." It hasn't been a secret for quite a few years now. It could work without violence and without illegal activities, but it would have to be constructed as a popular effort. And BTW, it won't work if aligned with any political party that stands against the demands of most voters.

Here's only one example of what went wrong with the recent election. Hillary Clinton said at least twice that she wouldn't run for the presidency before 2008 but said very confidently that she would be elected in 2008. Who, of anyone interested in what's going on in politics, didn't take that as a threat from an obvious political/education/business globe-trotting conglomerate? ...not to mention the debacle of crazy, dishonest statements during the campaigns.

The bald threat against voters of putting Hillary in presidential office made us all--conservative and liberal--very angry. Most voters want to work, and they want the officious harassments against their families to stop. [Business and political leaders, control your gossiping, meddlesome relatives in government/teaching offices.]

And no, I didn't vote for Obama. I have more honor and honesty than the prominent and influential folks in either of the political parties. And I don't steal or bother other families. The hard working, liberal couple next door doesn't, either. We (many) are saving resources and exchanging help toward surviving our paranoid, out-of-touch oligarchy's last-ditch tantrum, though.

[familyop]

"YOU are the quintessential American self-built man. Although, I hope you are not hiring illegal aliens when you say "poor foreign nationals"."

I work alongside them for our bosses. I sit for up to three hours without pay to wait for calls from clients. One of the young clerks insults me at every perceived opportunity (his personal vanity problem).

Those employers are untouchables and the only people to go to for work, because both political parties have made it so. I'm one of the worthless American bums that are so often complained about by members of my former political Party in favor of foreign slave labor. The clients hate me, because I'm not as afraid of them (when they start screaming and throwing tools around) as the Jamaicans, Mexicans, Central Americans and South Americans are. We all get paid the same. The slavers prefer foreign labor (both here and in other countries), because foreigners are terrified of them and will put up with all kinds of verbal and other abuse.

Here's the truth about some of us poorer folks, as we do talk amongst ourselves.

We don't like labor unions. Union bosses are often in bed with corrupt company administrators and tend to support goofy social policies (feminism, homosexual activism,...).

We don't like "smart growth," which is a way for big developers to use their "environmentalist" wives and daughters to kill small competition.

We don't like local bosses' or politicians' wives dictating and enforcing weird family policies against us.

We don't like the problems from the homes of local whores (supported by local elite families) who deal drugs, have noisy visitors and pit bulls.

We don't like welfare and tend to live frugally. The prostitutes/drug dealers supported by local business and government do get welfare, though.

We don't like having people with severe personal problems (like AIDS, severe schizophrenia, etc.) being placed in our neighborhoods by rich do-gooders who won't put them in group homes/asylums or their own neighborhoods.

We don't like the dishonest gossip and public myths about us--that we're all "liberals," "criminals," etc. I have no criminal history. I did do volunteer police work for a few months during the '90s (but with full discretion and most often alone with about 6,000-7,000 citizens overnight on weekends). ...got tired of being threatened by other officials for not doing illegal activities for local business families.

Most of the people in working class neighborhoods like mine know that there's been a globalist, socially liberal class war against them for a long time. Our main problem is that the sons and daughters (hippies) of employers of the late 1960s are running our country. They're the important constituents now.

Our country is ruled by my fellow Baby Boomers--the other, more superior half of them, that is. We need new blood in business and government. ...too much interbreeding going on at the top for too long. [Okay, a little humor in that last line.]

The only way to fix our government problem is to hire American men again. Throw globalism and feminism under the bipartisan bus. Keep the social pathologies of our superiors in their own homes instead of putting them in government offices and business offices. A few years after that, you might see enough votes from truly conservative families.

I'll also be studying the IBC, doing various jobs for others and trying to get a contractor's license in about another year or two. ...need to do other things and be a good slave until then. Say a prayer for us. I'm going to need it before trying to compete with the anti-industrial, anti-military, anti-family complex.

[familyop]

"Don't know if you ever did, but I spent 11 years in the Navy during the cold war with Soviets trailing us and itching to blow us out of the water."

You were closer to Ivan than I was, and being away from home for so long is the hardest part, IMO. I only went back and forth between training (night moves, no tents, no sleep) and trying to avoid looking like a soldier in civilian jobs. Even some veterans (officers) refused to hire us for long-term jobs and told us why ('cause we were only "weekend warriors" and had to fly away for short "public affairs" missions and schools sometimes). They were interested in hiring our transient wives, though. ;-)

"What to do, guy? You're in your later years. Are you willing to face down the Marxist government Obami wants to instill on our Republic? I ask, because I know where you've been and also you told me your age."

Yeah, I know. Obama and company are planning on taking higher taxes from high-income citizens. Well, they can't get blood out of turnips. Continue what President Bush started and give it an extra push. Cut down on revenue-generating activities the honest way. Make less money for a few years. During that time, encourage the Government to spend as much as you can get it to spend. Yeah, that seems crazy, but hear me out.

Starve the leaches for revenues, and do it the honest way. I won't buy anything that I don't really need over the next few years. That will make our trading partners nervous. Eventually, they'll panic and raise their prices, at times, just as some vendors recently did for a few weeks (even groceries and gas stations).

Buy only tools and materials that will prevent the need to buy other things. ...hobbies of making useful things. Grow a garden. That's what many of the rest of us are doing. Let our masters spend, spend, and default. It's the only way that I know of to eventually get better leadership. The world won't end, if the thieves in government and government-attached business default. We'll just start thriving on a new, smaller government and smaller business.

There's one big difference between our worst scenario for the USA and that of, say, Argentina. Our cultural and religious makeup has not gone that far toward European social trends, yet. When under enough of a threat against our survival, many of us will still help our neighbors out instead of robbing them.

IMO, most of us Americans need a rough time. It'll make us stronger.

[familyop]

And BTW, with your experience, you probably know that my last suggestion is not an original idea. It’s something else that people in eastern Europe did besides being “nonpolitical” for a while.

Living poor (but healthy) for a time might seem really scary. But in the long run, it would be much easier than the alternative ideas that I’ve seen so far.

And if you don’t weaken your opponent...well, he’ll get stronger.

[Condor51]

... some of them do try to stop their neighbors from starting small businesses.

"I’m cramming CAD knowledge and learning to use a cheap (but good) CAD package (QCAD) and building code (IRC) here. I know how to build but haven’t made building plans before."

.will resume....as the weather allows in order to fund my little project.

I don't know what your "little project" is, but it seems you're entering the world of the "Professional." Be careful - a lot of obstacles.

btw, I checked that CAD Program and Professionally speaking; use it while you save money for AutoCAD^™ by Autodesk^©. AutoCAD is the Industry Standard and so is its '.dwg' format.

• Your program's '.dxf' format is pain in the __ to work with and basically, OBSOLETE.
  
• And an Arch drawing file in .dxf format is 'HUGH' compared to .dwg, sometimes 5 times larger. So emailing among contractors or the A/Eis a major problem. (people will want to KILL you).
  
• So at a minimum you need to get (buy) a cross platform conversation application; dxf to dwg
  
• Also, Architects use AutoCAD add-in apps, called 'Object Enablers'. Without YOU having these apps 'things' disappear (doors, walls, toilets, sinks, etc) when you open their drawing.
• But if you have also have AutoCAD, when you open the drawing file your AutoCAD checks the Autodesk website for these apps and automatically downloads and installs them to your AutoCAD program.
  
• Then we have 'Plotting' (making the blueprint). With dxf its again a major hassle. And AutoCAD has a feature called .dwf - that reduces the file size dramatically. Its for Plotting, or Viewing on another computer (another separate FREE Viewing app is available from Autodesk for someone without AutoCAD.
  
• Lastly - it now seems to be the 'in thing' and General Contractors want drawing files in .PDF format. I hate it as converting from dwg to pdf also increases the file size dramatically and is major pain to email multiple drawing files. BUT the new AutoCAD has this feature built in: 'Plot in .pdf'.

  When I had my old version of AutoCAD I had to buy a stinking application (program) to convert .dwg to pdf - I was NOT pleased! And with your present program you'd have to buy one too.

Now don't get too down. You DON'T need the AutoCAD version Architects use with every bell, whistle and switch (its about $20K iirc). You don't even need the regular 'Full Version' of AutoCAD that's $4,000. All you need is AutoCAD LT ('lite') and that's 'only' about $850.00 (prices vary plus there's taxes, shipping).

I bought AutoCAD LT 2008 from buy.com and its a certified AutoCAD dealer. I sure didn't want to spend all that but its a dream to work with since it auto updates for those fancy applications Arch's use - and I no longer have to waste time drawing walls, doors, toilets, etc. Buy.com AutoCAD LT 2009

Good luck.
But watch out for the Professional. We can be touchy in protecting 'our territory'.