Posted on 04/18/2009 5:32:36 PM PDT by neverdem
WASHINGTON — The Army has promised to lighten the soldier’s load, and nowhere more urgently than in eastern Afghanistan, where the unforgiving terrain tests the stamina of troops whose weapons, body armor, rucksacks and survival gear can weigh 130 pounds.
But an experiment to shave up to 20 pounds off a soldier’s burden — much of it by reducing the bulletproof plates that protect the chest and back — has stalled, leaving $3 million in new, lightweight equipment sitting in a warehouse in the United States instead of being sent to the war zone where it was to have been tried out by a battalion-size group of 500 soldiers. The delay offers a new window into how Army rules have slowed the deployment of specialized gear that small units are seeking for harsh combat environments.
The new lightweight bulletproof plates, part of what is known as a Modular Body Armor Vest, are already in use by the military’s Special Operations Command, which includes the Army’s elite light-infantry troops, the Rangers.
A team of Army experts went to eastern Afghanistan in early March expecting to begin trial runs of the gear for regular Army soldiers, including a company assigned to the remote Korangal Valley, a harsh and primitive area of eastern Afghanistan where the insurgency has proved especially resilient, and where soldiers regularly set off on multiple-day patrols that require them to hike up and down steep hills and valleys.
But the assessment team was ordered back to the United States late last month when its experiment was put off. The delays in the assessment were reported first by Army Times.
According to Army officials familiar with the effort, senior Army leaders ordered further reviews of the lighter bulletproof plates to guarantee that soldiers would not be put at risk wearing...
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Is this the same body armor that was talked about on “Dateline” that the military thought was crap?
another negative story about the military.
no doubt true, but the nyt never prints positive stories about the u.s. military.
Obama’s fault.
If Bush was still in office, this would be the lead story on the news. With 0 in office, nadda..
I’d say if there are no obvious flaws, bring it out and let whoever desires be a volunteer to test it. If it comes short the soldiers will find out soon enough.
The story doesn’t really say whether or not the vest will stop a rifle round.
Amen to that.
Its Obama’s fault and Obama’s military.
There is an armor out there called “dragon scales” which has had some good reviews.
It weighs a lot, a lot more. Anyways, it doesn’t matter as infantry has been carrying around 120 pounds since the Greeks.
Let me guess, these appointees of "The Great ObamaNation" are just cutting the cost of government by eliminating unnecessary programs.
Barry’s Fault.
Thus it has ever been.
L
If it sucks, Demwits be in favor of it. Thanks neverdem.
Hey, L - shot a poor 160 on the AQT today. Standing and prone work OK, but sitting is killing me. Elbows are a bit tender, too. You were right. Flexibility pays.
We’ll see how I do tomorrow after a good night’s sleep and a whole bunch of Tylenol.
Appleseed’s a great program. Highly, highly recommended.
what sitting position are you using? Yes, flexibility is key to the sitting position. There are a couple of variations to the sitting position that might help. Also many people use a self bracing concept called triangulation.
Look at the following guide http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/m203/four-fundamentals-of-m203.shtml
In particular, figures 5-3, 5-4, and 5-5. I find that with some slight modification 5-5 can be used to create a very solid position. 5-3 should be avoided as it is not very stable.
The military has to make up its mind on the protection level. In Iraq, early on, the plates were mostly in front, but with a lot of IED casualties the decision was to add side and back plates. This made the vests heavier. As Iraq is flatter and has more roads, the grunts could ride more than walk, so the weight increase was OK.
In Afghanistan, the roads are bad and everything is uphill. The heavier vests add weight. Should we go back to the front plate only? Either way, the soldiers are overburdened with gear and maybe we should try to supply food and water replenishments by air and let the soldiers just carry armor, arms and some food and water. The 120 pounds is way too much when you are going uphill all day and are already at 8000 feet above sea level.
We were also told to avoid 5-4, as it is easy for the knees to move up and down. The sitting position I was trying to use involves a cross-ankeled sit, and leaning forward enough to place your elbows on the flat of your upper shin, i.e. just below the kneecap. I just couldn’t make it into that position. We did a lot of loop sling work, awkward at first, but it really makes prone shooting go well. Hard to get into that type of cling support quickly, though. Used the hasty sling techniques for most everything else. Part of my low AQT resulted from a jam that kept me from firing 8 out of a 10 shot string. Could have been another 30 points or so there based upon my earlier shooting. When your time’s up, your time’s up.
But the real issue for me is strength and flexibility. And I’ll ditch the bifocals and use single focus sunglasses tomorrow.
Don’t forget to set up in your NPOA! It’s a lot easier on old bones.
Indeed! Will it stop just a 7.62x39 mm? Do grunts have to haul 20 pounds more when they are carrying at least 100 pounds to begin with. It's a very pertinent question.
Ah, the NPOA. I know I’ve got one around here somewhere. The guys instructing are really, good - we’re learning to shoot ‘by the numbers’ and by the and of the day, I didn’t even have to think about them. I still have a lot of good habits - like not dragging wood.
Seriously, the real benefit of this event is that I’ve gotten a wake-up call as to my general fitness level. I’ve let things go, and that’s not good - especially now. So there’s a lot of work to do, and I’ve definitely got the motivation.
Which rifle are you shooting?
Shooting the FAL (Stg58 on a DSA receiver), which has proved to be disappointing. Lots of failures to feed and stovepipes. Had to bag the rest of the AQT training today because of that. Thought about taking the NM Garand, but the price of 30.06 - ouch! There’s that nasty Greek stuff out there, but it seems a shame to run that kind of ammo through such a fine rifle.
So it’s probably two things: weak mag springs and/or a weak op rod spring. No matter what the gas block setting, I may not get a complete ejection and the bolt will fail to strip or partially another round off the top of the magazine. I was ripping along on phase 1 and 2 of the AQT, and then I started having feed problems. Only got off 3 of 10 on phase 3 and 1 of 10 on phase 4. You just can’t score well on timed fire if you’re struggling with jams. Decided to bag it and get it to a FAL doctor.
That said, when it worked the way it was supposed to, many, many of my shots were touching or near touching. I was getting nice little 2 and 3 shot groups like that. I’ll get it figured out and fixed and soon.
Still need lots of physical improvement, though. I had to kneel in the sitting phases - couldn’t really manage the the full forward sitting position. These old bones...
But if it's not...well.
Getting old is a real bitch...
The answer is to overhaul all of my magazines with a spring-follower-floor plate kit. A relatively cheap fix: they’re out there fora few bucks each.
Trip to the FAL doctor - maybe not so cheap, but it’ll be worth it. It’s an iron-sight tack driver in capable hands.
As for getting old - time to get back on the serious fitness trail. Funny thing: now that I’ve got a regular job, I’ve gota whole lot more time.
And if I had the bux, I’d own a Springfield Armory M14. The king of battle rifles.
I got 'once in a lifetime' lucky when I bought mine, that's for sure. I'll not part with her till I'm cold and lifeless.
As Colonel Cooper put it: "The Queen is not for sale."
it gets heavy! Many of us would ligthen the weight in exchange for less "safety". I want to be able to move quicker and longer without having to stop to catch my breath... you lose your agility!
I want those idiots that called them back to come out here and wear it daily for a month. now with the onset of summer, yes, you wear it and suffer with all the aforementioned you fricking FOB POGs! Then you tell me what you think.. You ever wear this stuff on a day to day basis? don't even tell me yes you have when as an officer, you "sit down" in your fricking meetings and are out of the sun and have the weight load off.
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