Do hunter-gatherers have it right?

BBC ^ | May 19, 2009 | Tom Feilden

[decimon]

Listening to Tom Standage talking about his new book, An Edible History of Humanity this morning I was reminded of a paper written by the anthropologist and author Jared Diamond in the late 1980's.

Diamond described agriculture as, "the worst mistake in the history of the human race".

Farming was, he argued, a catastrophe from which we have never quite recovered. With agriculture came "the social and sexual inequality, disease and despotism, that curse our existence".

[tbw2]

Farming allowed a larger population. Farmers had more descendants, creating a Darwinian advantage for the farmers. That is why farming spread.

[marron]

I could do it. But I get to be the priest. I need hot showers, I want to surf the net during work hours, and fresh brewed coffee half a dozen times a day. Just want to make that clear before we get too far into it.

But yeah, hunter gatherer. Sounds great.

[mysterio]

"the worst mistake in the history of the human race"

But it led to vodka, so that made it ok.

[potlatch]

LOL cute post devolve, he's swingin.....after that beer he'll feel like this;

BONGA WONGA

[bert]

Which means that in a Darwinian context, the farmers became adapted better, more fit and survived.

The problem in Saudi Arabia is between the ultra conservative herders of the desert and the settled ag dependent cities. The same is true in Afghanistan

[hiredhand]

I’ll defer to C.O. I’m sure he can properly explain why the BBC author is wrong is much fewer words than I can. :-)

[Matchett-PI]

Sunday, May 24, 2009
The Stone Age Economics of the Left: Who Would Jesus Bail Out?
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8580258&postID=6278454552434880646

[SunkenCiv]

---

An Edible History of Humanity by Tom Standage Audio CD Hardcover Hardcover Hardcover

---

[SunkenCiv]

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·
	Gods Graves Glyphs	Thanks decimon. With agriculture came "the social and sexual inequality, disease and despotism, that curse our existence". IOW, its sufficient to say that the writer of that is stupid. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
·Dogpile · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society · · Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · Google · · The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·

[668 - Neighbor of the Beast]

Come now. Agriculture did not cause sexual inequality.

[Fractal Trader]

It also created a lot more free time

It may have done this in aggregate. However, most examinations of hunter-gatherer societies show that they only need about two to three hours a day to get their daily sustenance. Kind of like lions, from what I understand.

[ApplegateRanch]

However, don't you on occasions lean back and think, "Hmmm, a life of hunting and fishing, no yard to mow, no job to work at, just hunting and fishing . . . "

Not if I have to make the line, make the hook, make the pole, and make everything I need to make those things....

And that is just the fishing.

[Secret Agent Man]

We’d be spending all our time surviving, protecting what we had, watching our backs for someone that is bigger and stronger than us, or in roving bands. Life would be much, much worse in many, many ways.

[ApplegateRanch]

From the articole's comment section:

11. At 09:16am on 20 May 2009, yarbles1234 wrote:
Surely the reason agriculture spread is because agricultural societies can support an army.

...and the demise of agriculture will be because agricultural societies can support excess Liberal academics.

As to With agriculture came "the social and sexual inequality, disease and despotism, that curse our existence," I was under the impression that The Noble Savage had had a stake driven through its heart decades ago.

[MetaThought]

You’re absolutely right. The point he’s trying to make is that agriculture is a compromise. Quality of life was sacrificed for the sheer power of numbers.

Advanced civilization comes much much later (Thousands of years). Until very recently most people have been serfs, and have had a very poor quality of life.

Another point that he does not make, but I believe to be true, is that we would all be healthier if we ate a hunter gatherer diet. Meat, vegetables, fruits, NO grains.

[Iowa Granny]

Another point that he does not make, but I believe to be true, is that we would all be healthier if we ate a hunter gatherer diet. Meat, vegetables, fruits, NO grains.

Yes, it would be a healthier diet,, but if you were growing your own food, you would get enough exercise that you could afford to eat a lot more carbs.

Speaking as a Farmer here,,, this guy is nuts. He has no idea how difficult it is to grow enough food to feed a family for an entire year. Certainly, it can be done,, but it would be a pretty boring diet.

I prefer to specialize in a few crops, and depend on other farmers to grow the other things I feed my family.Somebody needs to hide this guy's STUPID PILLS before he writes his next book.

[BroJoeK]

"With agriculture came "the social and sexual inequality, disease and despotism, that curse our existence". "

Such nonsense.

All of these conditions are present in some hunter-gatherer cultures.

None of these conditions are present in every agricultural culture.

In short, agriculture did not cause any "curse of our existence." It's a ridiculous article.

[Fred Hayek]

One of the comments in the article was “Humanity is a virus, someday Earth will find a cure”. And deadb0y was serious about it.
This pseudoscientist referenced in the article blames nearly all of societies ills on agriculture. He just needs to add racism, sexism, and homophobia to complete the list. Definitely an ivory tower academic with no exposure to the outside world, and would say that we on this board have “sheltered lives” for disagreeing with him to boot.

[DuncanWaring]

Diamond described agriculture as, "the worst mistake in the history of the human race".

That hardly seems to be the theme of his book Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies.

[Sherman Logan]

The problem in Saudi Arabia is between the ultra conservative herders of the desert and the settled ag dependent cities.

I get your drift but I believe it's inaccurate at the present time.

There is very little agriculture in SA, for obvious reasons. Even the few remaining herders aren't dependent on their animals for survival. They herd in Toyota pickups and SUVs provided by government subsidies.

In reality, every single person in SA is utterly dependent on exported oil. If the country were ever shut off from the outside, the vast majority would quickly die.

You are correct historically speaking. Up until the oil bonanza there was constant conflict between the settled and nomadic populations.