Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Gravity waves 'around the corner'
Nature News ^ | 19 August 2009 | Calla Cofield

Posted on 08/22/2009 10:05:51 PM PDT by neverdem

Sensitive search fails to find ripples in space, but boosts hopes for future hunts.

Crab NebulaSupernovas, such as the one which created the Crab Nebula, should send out bursts of gravity waves.NASA

The hunt for gravitational waves may not have found the elusive ripples in space-time predicted by Albert Einstein, but the latest results from the most sensitive survey to date are providing clear insight into the origins and fabric of the Universe.

General relativity predicts that gravitational waves are generated by accelerating masses. Violent yet rare events, such as a supernova explosion or the collision of two black holes, should make the biggest and most detectable waves.

A more pervasive yet weaker source of waves should be the stochastic gravitational wave background (SGWB) that was mostly created in the turmoil immediately after the Big Bang, and which has spread unhindered through the Universe ever since.

The Laser Interferometer Gravitational-wave Observatory (LIGO) detectors, based in Washington state and Louisiana, look for these cosmic gravitational waves by measuring any slight disturbance to laser beams that shuttle between heavy mirrors held kilometres apart. Whereas the gravitational wave signal from a distinct event, such as a black-hole merger, would appear as a spike in the LIGO data, the SGWB is a murmur that is more difficult to detect.

“For 40 years they've been saying that gravity waves are around the corner ... I think for the first time that's actually a true statement.”

Michael Turner
University of Chicago, Illinois

Working with the Virgo Collaboration, which runs a gravitational wave detector near Pisa, Italy, the LIGO team has now analysed what their own detector saw between November 2005 and September 2007. Although LIGO did not find any waves, the teams conclude in Nature1 that the SGWB is even smaller than LIGO can currently detect. This result rules out some theoretical models of the early Universe that would generate a relatively large background of gravitational waves.

Cosmic predictions

"This is the first time that an experiment directly searching for gravitational waves is essentially going and making a statement about cosmology, about the evolution of the Universe," says Vuk Mandic, an astrophysicist at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis, and part of the LIGO team. The data also exclude certain cosmological models involving cosmic strings — hypothetical cracks in the fabric of space that are thinner than an atom but have immense gravitational fields.

The LIGO results reduce the upper limit for the size of the SGWB, which had previously been set by indirect measurements. A relatively large SGWB in the very early Universe, for example, would have had a measurable effect on both the cosmic microwave background radiation left over from that time, and the relative amounts of light elements — such as hydrogen, helium and lithium — created within minutes of the Big Bang.

The LIGO and Virgo collaborations are in the process of merging their scientific efforts, and the teams plan to include data and collaborative work from both experiments in all of their future papers. Detector improvements should help Virgo to match LIGO's sensitivity in the next few years, and a series of upgrades to both experiments should increase their sensitivity to the SGWB by more than a thousand times by 2014 — which astrophysicists say is almost certain to be enough to pin down its quarry at last.

"For some 40 years they've been saying that gravity waves are around the corner," says Michael Turner, an astrophysicist at the University of Chicago in Illinois, who was not involved in the research. "And I think for the first time in 40 years that's actually a true statement."



TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Testing
KEYWORDS: astrophysics; electrogravitics; gravitationalwaves; gravitywaves; ligo; sgwb; stringtheory
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-71 next last

1 posted on 08/22/2009 10:05:52 PM PDT by neverdem
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: neverdem
*smirk*
Good luck with that.
2 posted on 08/22/2009 10:07:31 PM PDT by allmost
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

“Violent yet rare events, such as a supernova explosion or the collision of two black holes, should make the biggest and most detectable waves.”


Unless your presuppositions regarding such objects/events are completely false...


3 posted on 08/22/2009 10:12:48 PM PDT by dadgum (Security System. Dog. 12 gauge. 3" magnum turkey loads. Shovel.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sig226; KevinDavis

Astro-Space Pings


4 posted on 08/22/2009 10:20:11 PM PDT by JerseyJohn61 (Better Late Than Never.......sometimes over lapping is worth the effort....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
So then, what happens? Do we get heavier or something?

Where can I buy some "gravity offsets"?
5 posted on 08/22/2009 10:25:22 PM PDT by FrankR (We are only enslaved to the extent of charity we receive....INCUMBENTS OUT!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dadgum

True enough, if you accept an unproven hypothesis, it’s tough to explain when things don’t work out.


6 posted on 08/22/2009 10:25:35 PM PDT by domenad (In all things, in all ways, at all times, let honor guide me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Have any of Einstein’s equations or theories proven to be wrong?


7 posted on 08/22/2009 10:37:20 PM PDT by Larry381 ("in the final instance civilization is always saved by a platoon of soldiers" Oswald Spengler)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

It’s the gravity Tsunami I’m worried about, those
things are too big to surf! Well, maybe not for
the Silver Surfer...


8 posted on 08/22/2009 11:03:03 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
I'm amazed given just how small the predicted effects are they have come up with something that might see them.
9 posted on 08/22/2009 11:25:43 PM PDT by Nateman (If liberals aren't screaming you're doing it wrong.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FrankR
Where can I buy some "gravity offsets"?

I think the Democrat party is selling them now that Obama has lost his gravitas.

10 posted on 08/22/2009 11:53:51 PM PDT by stripes1776 ("That if gold rust, what shall iron do?" --Chaucer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Larry381
Have any of Einstein’s equations or theories proven to be wrong?

Yes, all of them when applied to subatomic particles. Einstein's theory of relativity applies to very large objects like solar systems and objects traveling near the speed of light. In those cases his theories give accurate results when compared to the measurements. But when applied to subatomic particles his theories do not match the measured results. That is where quantum mechanics come in. Quantum mechanics describes subatomic particles accurately.

Einstein's theory of relative and quantum mechanics contradict each other. They can't both be true, and both are probably false. So the hunt is on for the Theory of Everything (T.O.E.) that will describe both objects moving near the speed of light and subatomic particles. One of the candidates is super string theory. This is strictly theoretical since the proposed strings are too small to detect with instruments. One of the things it predicts is the graviton, a particle of gravity. But the graviton has not shown up yet.

11 posted on 08/23/2009 12:08:38 AM PDT by stripes1776 ("That if gold rust, what shall iron do?" --Chaucer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: stripes1776

The graviton won’t show up. String theories are garbage science IMO. Even it’s proponents concede that to even begin getting useful results they need to fudge in an extra dimension, M-theory. 11 dimensions to describe a three dimensional, inverse square, phenomenon. The two competing theories currently used work extremely well in there respective fields. The concept and model of gravity is wrong.


12 posted on 08/23/2009 12:42:44 AM PDT by allmost
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: El Gato; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; LadyDoc; jb6; tiamat; PGalt; Dianna; ...
Nanoparticle safety in doubt - Lung damage in Chinese factory workers sparks health fears.

Sugar hit triggers bug's drug slug - An engineered bacterium can deliver a therapeutic protein straight to the gut when fed with xylan.

Scientists devise new way to modify organisms - Yeast cell surrogate may help scientists to engineer synthetic life.

FReepmail me if you want on or off my health and science ping list.

13 posted on 08/23/2009 12:58:22 AM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Larry381; stripes1776
Have any of Einstein’s equations or theories proven to be wrong?

Try doing google searches on "Dayton Miller"...

14 posted on 08/23/2009 2:24:25 AM PDT by wendy1946
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: wendy1946

Yup.

Michelson-Morley found a drift, but it was within the margin of error of the experiment, so it was discounted.

What always gets me is that to validate Einstein, they say that there was no drift, but then they come back and say that to validate Einstein, we need gravity waves, which is to say instead of the object accelerating in space, we have space somehow accelerating past the object.


15 posted on 08/23/2009 2:33:38 AM PDT by djf (The "racism" spiel is a crutch, those who unashamedly lean on it, cripples!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: dadgum
Unless your presuppositions regarding such objects/events are completely false...

Unfortunately the article seems to miss that obvious point. The most important aspect of the failure to detect gravity waves is that is brings into at least some doubt the validity of Einstein's General Theory of Relativity. That is a very big deal and, IMHO, a source of great embarrassment to the physics community.

16 posted on 08/23/2009 4:13:59 AM PDT by InterceptPoint
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: dadgum
"Unless your presuppositions regarding such objects/events are completely false..."

Plenty of hard evidence for both.

17 posted on 08/23/2009 4:31:33 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog ( The Hog of Steel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Larry381

cosmological constant

“God does not play dice.”


18 posted on 08/23/2009 4:51:12 AM PDT by sig226 (Real power is not the ability to destroy an enemy. It is the willingness to do it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Y’know, I thought I heard somethin’ in the other room...

‘Non-discovery’ of space-time ripples opens door to birth of the Universe
The Times | 8/20/2009 | Mark Henderson
Posted on 08/19/2009 7:20:29 PM PDT by bruinbirdman
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2320106/posts


19 posted on 08/23/2009 9:02:06 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AdmSmith; bvw; callisto; ckilmer; dandelion; ganeshpuri89; gobucks; KevinDavis; Las Vegas Dave; ...
Thanks neverdem.

One thing I like about the String Theory ping list is, the volume is typically so low that I can ping more or less duplicate topics with impunity. ;')

· List topics · post a topic · FR page layout · Google ·

20 posted on 08/23/2009 9:03:10 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-71 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson