Baucus Bill Encourages Americans to DROP Insurance Coverage

Fox News ^ | October 12, 2009 | John R. Lott Jr.

[JohnRLott]

What if you, and every member of your family, had the chance to save $4,000 each?. Would you be interested? Under the terms of what's being called "the Baucus bill" -- Washington-speak for the bill the Senate Finance Committee will vote on tomorrow -- that is how much you could save by dropping your health insurance.

People might have thought that health care reform would lead to an increase in the number of people getting health insurance coverage. Indeed, the Congressional Budget Office claims the Senate Finance Committee's health care bill will reduce the number of uninsured in 2019 by about 29 million," but the financial rewards are huge for people if they drop their insurance. Amazingly the CBO makes this prediction of 29 million more insured Americans without ever once analyzing the financial incentive for those who are already insured to drop their insurance.

Consider some numbers. . . . .

[A_Former_Democrat]

Montanans . . . please wake up.

[SandWMan]

Baucus can take his fines and shove them up his...rear end.

[stockpirate]

An independent study realeased today said the bill would ADD $4,000.00 per year to each families bill, not decrease it.

And CBO didn’t score the bill, they made up some numbers based on a memo of the what the bill MAY contain. This is a complete sham.

[libstripper]

All by itself, this rule is enough to destroy the private insurance industry and result in a single payer system. Neat scam if he can pull it off.

[Danae]

What BS, my costs will go UP by 4000 under Bacus’s BS.

[DTogo]

And what happens when IRS/Obamacare agents start knocking on doors to collect fines and/or arrrest people without health insurance?

[dawn53]

What the article says is true...but what it doesn’t mention that if you are in an employer provided plan, and drop your insurance, it’s not you who are getting the $12000 (family plan) in your pocket, it’s your employer. At least with our plan, we pay $300 per month, the employer kicks in 900, so if we dropped our plan we’d save $3600 a year, the employer would be the one with the lion’ share of the savings. Now if the employer would agree to give part of that in salary...now that’d be fine!!!

[gibtx2]

Who are you working for?

[Dogbert41]

They should ask the census takers what happens...

[Wuli]

It has to be understood that the true intentions of the Dim’s “health care reform” legislation is clearly defined by a result of many features of that legislation, which are:

(1)to raise the cost of existing insurance plans, (2) offer, where ever possible, to shift current and rising costs from employers and employees directly to everyone through taxes, (3) create mandates that result in taxpayer funded inducements to leave private insurance altogether and enter a fully funded government plan, or such a plan pretending to be a “non-profit co-op plan”.

The 100% intentions of the Dim’s plans are to further weaken, obstruct, raise the cost of everything in the private insurance sector and offer subsidized plans that either place legal mandates and controls on private plans (making all plans “private” in name only), or offer direct government subsidized plans themselves.

Everything is intended to produce some federal hook and control into EVERY aspect of private health insurance until it can no longer viably operate as a private business.

Where ever federal control does not exist, to the Dim’s “reform” is missing.

Of course this begins with the national myth that “free markets” (in health insurance) are the problem, when in fact it is government, state and federal that has negatively controlled the shape of the health insurance markets today; not some uncontrolled marketplace.

Remove the state mandates that require employers to over-insure all employees with one-size-fits all plans all employees are enrolled in,

remove the state restrictions that prohibit small employers and individuals from buying insurance “out-of-state”,

remove the state restrictions that prevent groups of small employers from joining together for bargaining as a single group for a joint-group insurance policy for all their employees (to make groups as large as the giant employers),

make whatever tax exemptions that exist for “health insurance”, state and federal, apply to any plan, no matter who is paying for it, as long as it is a nationwide, private plan that an individual can keep with them, from employer to employer, for as long as they want to -

and “universal”, nationwide, individual health insurance would in a short time become much more affordable and those private nationwide plans would be cheaper to subsidize for the very poorest.

The Dim’s plans are designed to prevent such a possibility.

[rawhide]

I thought about this very thing this person writes about. The only problem is you may not have the time to buy insurance, for instance you may have an accident or a sudden illness that requires emergency care. If you plan to wait until you can buy insurance to get coverage, well, that heart attack may not wait, nor that falling off a ladder and having a compound fracture? Insurance costs but it is worth it when it s needed.

[dawn53]

Our group is from my husband’s insurance...the employer is a large municipality. The insurance is a PPO, we don’t have to stay in network. Our part is $300 per month, the city pays the $900 (husband is non union btw.)

However, my sister owns a company, they pay about a thousand per month per employee for their healthcare. It’s similar to an HMO though, and in their case the company picks up all the costs of the insurance.

[Bitsy]

And what happens when IRS/Obamacare agents start knocking on doors to collect fines and/or arrrest people without health insurance?

Why, they will create new jobs - building and staffing new prisons. The did say they would create new jobs didn’t they? It’s a win situation of the government!

[crusty old prospector]

So, I guess there is a free lunch?

[CharlesWayneCT]

Your bill only goes up if you are stupid enough to keep your insurance.

Under the Baucus bill, you can drop your insurance, pay the government some small tax, less than $1000 a year (much less than the cost of insurance).

And if you actually get sick, you can sign up for insurance AT THE HOSPITAL ER as you check in, and start paying your low monthly premiums a month after you get your free medical care.

Because they can’t charge you more, and they can’t exclude pre-existing conditions, there’s no point of having insurance at all, until you actually NEED it.

Of course, this will only work until too many people figure it out, then the insurance costs will be so high you won’t be able to afford the monthly premiums at all, the insurance companies will go broke, and everybody will have crappy government insurance paid for by Bill Gates.

[Anti-Bubba182]

"..The fine will eventually reach "$750 per adult in the household. This per adult penalty would also be phased in: For 2013, $0; $200 for 2014; $400 for 2015; $600 in 2016 and $750 in 2017.".."

Anybody else notice how the fines don't start until after Obama has run for a second term? They are assuming they can slip the bill past without anyone paying attention.

[unixfox]

And what happens when IRS/Obamacare agents start knocking on doors to collect fines and/or arrrest people without health insurance?

They don't want to find out.

[CharlesWayneCT]

Under the plan, you are supposed to be able to sign up for insurance in the hospital as part of your check-in procedure.

SO other than maybe having to pay for the ambulance, you are good.

And if it really is an emergency, they will have to treat you even without insurance, for the couple of hours it takes to get your own insurance.

But I figure most people will go the other route, signing up for insurnace every month, but then not paying the premium when it comes due. Eventually they cancel the insurance, and you sign up again, since they can’t refuse you.

If you ever NEED the insurance, then you can pay the bill at the end of the month.

[paulycy]

Can a helpful FReeper tell me what the specifics are re: the name and number of the Baucus bill and the telephone number for people to call tomorrow and protest?

I want to send it out to my family. Thanks.

[darkangel82]

Hey Baucus, FU you commie.

[DTogo]

Why, they will create new jobs - building and staffing new prisons. The did say they would create new jobs didn’t they? It’s a win situation of the government!

Assuming people go quietly. And we know what happens when one assumes.

[Bitsy]

Assuming people go quietly. And we know what happens when one assumes.
Ah, so true.

[Williams]

Don’t know why Americans have faith in a bunch of politicians - of any party - to intelligently draft thousands of pages affecting major parts of our lives and the economy.

Politicians for the most part are pompous idiots.

[Williams]

Just think how the economy on its own now provides almost everyone with health insurance, and everyone with health care.

Then they write a complicated bill that requires $899 billion and tons of taxes, penalties and Medicare cuts to maybe make it work.

What does that tell you about whether it makes any sense?

[rwfromkansas]

Well, technically there still is a penalty. So, while not free....the penalty is cheaper and you could sign up after you have a condition like cancer since they couldn’t deny you for preexisting conditions.

That was the only part I agreed with the bill on, but now I am not so sure.

I thought it was wrong to deny people just for a preexisting condition, but if that means people can just have and drop insurance whenever they need it, that’s a serious problem that will skyrocket health costs.

[I_Like_Spam]

And what happens when IRS/Obamacare agents start knocking on doors to collect fines and/or arrrest people without health insurance?

____________________________

Its not just a matter of “collecting fines” you know.

We have still have a constitution which requires that charges be filed, trials be held and juries consider the evidence and render a unanimous verdict before a fine can be levied, no?

[rwfromkansas]

Not with the IRS.

[rwfromkansas]

THis article needs passed around, as it discusses a little-talked about problem with the bill.

[your local physicist]

I think most of the legislation being discussed by the Democrats allows insurance companies to charge more for people with pre-existing conditions. But there’s a limit on how much more they can charge for older people and people with pre-existing conditions. That limit is way below the current difference in insurance rates. So the lower rates that would be legislated for the elderly and people with pre-existing conditions have to be offset by higher rates for younger people and healthy people. Thus these bills are all effectively big tax increases for young and healthy people to pay for insurance for the poor, elderly, and unhealthy people. These democrat plans are all big schemes to tax away and redistribute income from young people, higher income people, and people who’ve taken care of their health. It’s typical liberal politics to punish responsibility and success and reward irresponsibility.

[your local physicist]

Not talked about much but very obvious. I knew this was all headed for trouble immediately when I heard this legislation would force insurance companies to provide insurance for pre-existing conditions. If this legislation passes and these massive subsidies for the poor and unhealthy people are enacted, get ready for the medical system to be overwhelmed by new patients receiving subsidized health care, just like under Romneycare. The quality of our health care will decline drastically and immediately. There will be long delays for routine medical care because the system will be overloaded with new patients.

[Cheerio]

If this legislation passes and these massive subsidies for the poor and unhealthy people are enacted,

Massive redistribution of WEALTH. I call it STEALTH REPARATIONS.

Obama throwing money at black people in Detroit from his secret stash.

[ApplegateRanch]

And what happens when IRS/Obamacare agents start knocking on doors to collect fines and/or arrrest people without health insurance?

Depends on whether or not they're wearing bulletproof vests, doesn't it?

[your local physicist]

Not only that, but if this subsidized health care bill passes, it's going to create chaos in the health care system in certain cities that have a lot of violent gangs. When the gangbangers in Chicago and LA get their subsidized private insurance and then start trying to see doctors on the north side of Chicago or West LA, most of the doctors will try to avoid them and stall on making appointments. After the first shooting or stabbing of a doctor or nurse in an office in an affluent part of town, you'll see massive flight of doctors out of cities like Chicago, LA, New York, and Oakland into the distant suburbs to get away from the gangbangers. This subsidized dimocrat health care plan could cripple the health care system in cities with a lot of violent gangs. The responsible working people in those cities are then going to have to drive or take the train out to the distant suburbs to see a doctor, or put up with major security procedures like metal detectors and rent-a-cops in doctors' offices. This will create bedlam in certain cities if it's enacted. Just watch what happens if this travesty goes through. It will all be blamed on the Dems after the doctors have left town and the chaos subsides.

The GOP must retake the House in 2010.

[Cheerio]

The GOP must retake the House in 2010.

You are correct - this may be our last chance. If the RATs have another couple of years, there will be no turning back short of a civil war.

[P-Marlowe]

The only problem is you may not have the time to buy insurance, for instance you may have an accident or a sudden illness that requires emergency care. If you plan to wait until you can buy insurance to get coverage, well, that heart attack may not wait, nor that falling off a ladder and having a compound fracture? Insurance costs but it is worth it when it s needed.

Under this plan, insurance companies can't turn you down for pre-existing conditions, so you just carry around an application for insurance and then when you feel chest pain, you just sign it and drop it in the mail with a premium check on your way to the hospital.

Health care reform is not "insurance" it is welfare. I personally would probably choose to go without insurance, as I can probably afford a couple of days in the hospital and if I don't have insurance I can save about $12,000 a year. I could just put that $12,000 a year into a savings account and after about 3 years I would have enough money to pay for most major surgeries in the bank and if I had some kind of accident, or I came down with cancer, I would just purchase "insurance" at that time and keep it until I either got home from the hospital or my cancer went into remission.

Why on earth would anyone purchase insurance if you can get it any time you want without consideration of pre-existing conditions and if the insurance company couldn't charge you more just because you had cancer or diabetes or needed heart surgery on the day you signed up?

[rcrngroup]

Unfortunately if the health care debacle bill gets passed this year by 0bozo's hook or by crook(ed), we will be screwed so badly even if the Repubs do manage to take a few house seats or a couple of senate seats in 2010. Either way, the Repubs will be unable to turn this massive gubmint gravy train around and this socialist health care debacle, along with the Crap & Tax bill, will destroy our formerly once great United States of America.

FU 0bozo, you commie pig creep!!!

I think the only way to defeat & throw out this commie pig, is for Texas & a few other conservative states to start the ball rolling by seceding from 0bozo's USSA.
.

[Cheerio]

I think the only way to defeat & throw out this commie pig, is for Texas & a few other conservative states to start the ball rolling by seceding from 0bozo's USSA.

Once that ball starts rolling I hope I can get to TX before they put up the border fence.

[spokeshave]

"But I figure most people will go the other route, signing up for insurnace every month, but then not paying the premium when it comes due. Eventually they cancel the insurance, and you sign up again, since they can’t refuse you.

If you ever NEED the insurance, then you can pay the bill at the end of the month.

Good one...

like a lot of people do this with car insurance...only need it once a year with registration fees.

[Eric Blair 2084]

"There are four ways in which you can spend money. You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what you’re doing, and you try to get the most for your money. Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I’m not so careful about the content of the present, but I’m very careful about the cost. Then, I can spend somebody else’s money on myself. And if I spend somebody else’s money on myself, then I’m sure going to have a good lunch! Finally, I can spend somebody else’s money on somebody else. And if I spend somebody else’s money on somebody else, I’m not concerned about how much it is, and I’m not concerned about what I get. And that’s government. And that’s close to 40% of our national income."

---Milton Friedman, "Free To Choose"

How to Cure Health Care; By Milton Friedman

Readers Digest Version for liberal bloggers and White House and Congressional radical Socialists who claim Conservatives and Libertarians don't have a plan. We have one, you just don't like the idea that you wouldn't control it.

1. Repeal the tax exemption for employer provided medical care.
2. Terminate Medicare and Medicaid
3. Provide every American citizen with catastrophic insurance. Major medical with a high deductible.
4. Increase the use of tax free Medical Savings Accounts.
5. Deregulate insurance so that consumers can shop for a la carte coverage across State lines.

[rcrngroup]

Me too! I’ve got a sister & brother-in-law plus nephews & families near Dallas, and a brother who lives near McAllen. Will live either place & sign up for duty!!!

[Eric Blair 2084]

3rd party coverage is the problem. Sheeple are completely divorced from the cost.

Wave an “insurance” card. No other good or service in America is treated like this.

Yeah sure, MRI, Cat scan, why the hell do I care? $20 deductible? I’ll take 10 of them. You are more expensive than every other provider? Not my problem. It’s the gubmint or insurance companies problem.

[Stultis]

Yeah. I've never understood, btw, the many Republicans (e.g. Newt) who -- while adamantly rejecting the balance of Obama Care -- say they are in favor of eliminating preexisting conditions.

I mean, gee, if I can always waltz in later and get fully covered, preexisting conditions notwithstanding, why in the world would I pay for insurance UNLESS AND UNTIL I get sick?!?

I know Newt is genuinely expert on health care issues, and he's no idiot, so I assume there MUST be some provisos on his part that I am not aware of, but it's like he, and others with this position, don't even grasp the concept of "insurance!"

[unkus]

It is time to consider “Passive Resistence”. Out right Revolt will come later. We need to teach Saul Alinski a lesson.

When our old and inferm are threatened, we WILL respond.

[OBXWanderer]

And what happens when IRS/Obamacare agents start knocking on doors to collect fines and/or arrrest people without health insurance?

You get a paycheck, you get social security, you get a pension??? They will find you. Just ask anyone behind on child support or taxes. You clear say 800 a week, and one day you get a check for 300, and a nice cute note from Obama saying you still owe ______ and we will deduct until it is paid.....they'll get their fines. Like Rush and others say, "Its all their(gov) money, they just let you keep what they(gov) think you should get.

They don't need to pound on any doors.

[guitarist]

People need to vote more carefully. This ridiculous bill could never see the light of day if there were 5 or 10 fewer radical Dem’s in the Senate. Do you all like Barbara Boxer and Al Franken deciding how our govt should be run?

[concerned about politics]

but the financial rewards are huge for people if they drop their insurance.

And the politicians will be rewarded handsomely as well. The fines for not having insurance will be sent to THEM.

This has nothing to do with health care. The grasshoppers have outnumbered the ants, and the left needs money FAST, from somewhere, from someone. The democrat base is once again demanding to be fed. Health care is a left wing politicians gold mine.

This is not about you. This is not about me. This is not about the average American. This is about power and privilege for the politicians. Everything they do is for THEIR own good. They need that health care money to throw at their base, and they'll find a way to steal it one way or another.

Notice how none of this affects the left wing welfare base in any way. It only hurts the tax paying right wing slaves.

[xzins]

The point of all this is exactly as you say, P-M. It is to provide another welfare program. With that they have another constituency, and they consolidate an old constituency. They must call it “insurance” though, for they hope to rope in lower middle income independents and some quasi-conservatives. These folks would still be insulted if you claimed they were on welfare.

The other constituency targeted is the illegal community. Amnesty is the key, and Obama’s majority in both houses makes an illegal amnesty bill inevitable. And someone tell me how this wouldn’t encourage another 20 million to cross the border. A minimum wage job, welfare, to include health care, is just across the border.

Not so subtle, not so devious, but enough to have plausible deniability.

And then the socialist program will march forward unimpeded.

The most important election in the history of the republic will be 2010. The most important races will be in the Senate, and especially in any conservative primaries. Rinos and liberal, supposedly on our side, must be removed in the primaries.

BTW, since Obama is courting the Muslim world, the best defense against gays in the military should include huge broadcasts of his gay friendliness to the Muslim world.

[mwl8787]

This health care monstrosity must be defeated NOW - in 2009.

Even if the GOP retakes the House next year, any reforms that they enact will be VETOED by Obama in 2011.

Call, call, call your Senators today. Do not waste time with emails — they do not read them.

TEL 202-224-3121 = Capitol Hill switchboard.

[TexasFreeper2009]

I said people would drop their insurance and that insurance costs would skyrocket the second I heard this nonsense about forcing insurance companies to cover preexisting conditions.

Everyone who is deathly ill with no health insurance will rush to get insurance... costing the insurance companies money which they will pass along to everyone else in the form of higher premiums.

Then you got another group of people that only get insurance in case something horrible happens... but now that they know they can get insurance after the fact, they will gladly drop their current plans and pockets the savings knowing that if any thing bad unexpected bad happens they can rush and and get it then!

This is NOT ROCKET SCIENCE! This is simple stuff to figure this out, why are they pushing a plan that will raise cost and raise the number of uninsured?