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The Demise of Another Evolutionary Link: Archaeopteryx Falls From Its Perch
Evolution News & Views ^ | October 26, 2009 | Casey Luskin

Posted on 10/27/2009 8:11:33 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts

The Demise of Another Evolutionary Link: Archaeopteryx Falls From Its Perch

A few days ago we saw Ida fall from her overhyped status as an ancestor of humans. Now some scientists are claiming that Archaeopteryx should lose its status as an ancestor of modern birds. Calling Archaeopteryx an “icon of evolution,” the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) borrows a term from Jonathan Wells while reporting that “[t]he feathered creature called archaeopteryx, easily the world's most famous fossil remains, had been considered the first bird since Charles Darwin's day. When researchers put its celebrity bones under the microscope recently, though, they discovered that this icon of evolution might not have been a bird at all.”

According to the new research, inferences about growth rates made from studies of Archaeopteryx’s ancient fossilized bones show it developed much more slowly than modern birds. While the WSJ is reporting these doubts about Archaeopteryx’s ancestral status as if they were something new, those who follow the intelligent design movement know that such skepticism has been around for quite some time. In his 2000 book Icons of Evolution, Jonathan Wells discussed differences between Archaeopteryx and modern birds and the implications for Archaeopteryx's place as an alleged link between dinosaurs and birds:

But there are too many structural differences between Archaeopteryx and modern birds for the latter to be descendants of the former. In 1985, University of Kansas paleontologist Larry Martin wrote: “Archaopteryx is not ancestral of any group of modern birds.” Instead it is “the earliest known member of a totally extinct group of birds." And in 1996 paleontologist Mark Norell, of the American Museum of Natural History in New York, called Archaeopteryx “a very important fossil,” but added that most paleontologists now believe it is not a direct ancestor of modern birds.

(Jonathan Wells, Icons of Evolution, p. 116 (Regnery, 2000).)Archaeopteryx isn’t the only evolutionary icon losing its claim as the ancestor of birds. In recent months we’ve seen paleontologists increasingly arguing that the entire clade of dinosaurs should no longer be considered ancestral to birds. As the WSJ article states:

There are lingering doubts that birds today are descendants of dinosaurs. Researchers at Oregon State University recently argued that the distinctive anatomy that gives birds the lung capacity needed for flight means it is unlikely that birds descended from dinosaurs like archaeopteryx and its kin. Their findings were published in June in the Journal of Morphology.
As paleontologist John Ruben of Oregon State was quoted saying when his article was published:
But old theories die hard, Ruben said, especially when it comes to some of the most distinctive and romanticized animal species in world history.

"Frankly, there's a lot of museum politics involved in this, a lot of careers committed to a particular point of view even if new scientific evidence raises questions," Ruben said. In some museum displays, he said, the birds-descended-from-dinosaurs evolutionary theory has been portrayed as a largely accepted fact, with an asterisk pointing out in small type that "some scientists disagree."

"Our work at OSU used to be pretty much the only asterisk they were talking about," Ruben said. "But now there are more asterisks all the time. That's part of the process of science."

("Discovery Raises New Doubts About Dinosaur-bird Links," ScienceDaily, June 9, 2009.)While "museum politics" seem to dominate now more than ever when it comes to evolution, it's nice to at least see some of those asterisks getting a little attention in a major media outlet like Wall Street Journal.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: antiscienceevos; belongsinreligion; catastrophism; catholic; christian; creation; darwindrones; evangelical; evolution; evoreligionexposed; godsgravesglyphs; intelligentdesign; judaism; notasciencetopic; paleontology; propellerbeanie; protestant; science; templeofdarwin
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To: metmom

As yet there is a difference of opinions with the greater volume of evidence falling on the side of for rather than against. So if you’re asking if there is a disagreement between scientists then the statement is correct. Of course, there was disagreement about fission too until Oppenheimer built the bomb.


21 posted on 10/27/2009 9:00:38 AM PDT by FormerRep
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To: FormerRep

...and at least two of those scientists were convinced the device was going to consume the earth when detonated.


22 posted on 10/27/2009 9:08:00 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: GodGunsGuts
The Peking Duck (NatGeo News 6/15/06 Dinosaur-Era Birds Surprisingly Ducklike, Fossils Suggest) GANSUS says,
“AFLAKE, AFLAKE!!!”, and flies to the top of the fossil roost.
23 posted on 10/27/2009 9:17:52 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: metmom
....."Is this inaccurate?"....

Yes, and according to the Discovery Channel, they are having to reform their thinking on the evolution of dino's that are just the same dino at various ages. They have classified many dino's as evolving species, when in fact, they are just examples of the same dino at various ages. If they found your skeleton and your child's skeleton, they could posit that your child was and earlier undeveloped version of you that took millions of years to change. It is messing up many of their previous theories about who formed what.

Keep in mind that ALL theories have to be consistent to even have a half life of a few years. Then something comes along to challenge that theory so adjustments are made to try and explain the anomalies or the anomalies are just ignored.

When someone found an iron hammer encrusted in a block of coal, deep in a coal mine that was said to be millions of years old, they just threw it out and said the mine was still millions of years in the making. So they would either have to say early hominids made iron hammers, or it doesn't take millions of years to make coal. They just ignored it and went on.

When all else fails, they can say a space alien made it.

24 posted on 10/27/2009 9:21:22 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: AUH2O Repub
...."fossils already in place in the rocks."....

In Texas, we found a fossilized human foot in a creek bed in the 70's. The only problem was it was inside a cowboy boot that was made in the 1950's. It doesn't take millions of years to form a fossil.

25 posted on 10/27/2009 9:26:17 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: MGBGUN
It is Creationists who assume that evolution happens more rapidly than any evolutionary biologist ever suggested.

They presume that every living species on Earth evolved from those primordial “kinds” that could fit on a boat of known dimensions within the last few thousand years.

So on the one hand you have the theory of evolution, which is consistent and based upon evidence; and on the other you have creationism which says that evolution happens thousands of times faster, but is somehow constrained as far as how much change an organism is capable of. Thousands of times faster evolution within a “kind” of animal, but no evolution at all between “kinds”.

26 posted on 10/27/2009 9:26:44 AM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: metmom; xcamel

No, she doesn’t have any intelligent comments, Metmom. After all, she believes she is just rearranged pond scum, and she acts accordingly.


27 posted on 10/27/2009 9:28:21 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

No, I believe that you are the detritus of pond scum. The rest belies your claim of omniscience.


28 posted on 10/27/2009 9:31:47 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: xcamel
LOL...the only thing you believe in is that there is nothing to believe in. You are nothing more than a stimulus-response vehicle that is the product of pond-scum plus millions of years. And as I said before, you act accordingly. Looking forward to the day when your irrationality finally finds its proper home over at the DU. Until then...
29 posted on 10/27/2009 9:41:22 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: chuckles
In Texas, we found a fossilized human foot in a creek bed in the 70's. The only problem was it was inside a cowboy boot that was made in the 1950's. It doesn't take millions of years to form a fossil.

You may find it of interest that even the sensationalist Carl Baugh, who once claimed the artifact you mentioned, has wiped clean his website AND his "Creation Evidence" museum of any and all mentions of the infamous "Limestone Cowboy Boot."

Why? Because it is such a bad fake, that even hardcore bible literalist young earth creationists weren't buying it. Hopefully you'll follow their lead.

In fact, it seems the entire creationist community feels that Baugh's findings are all in question. AIG et al clearly state that his "man next to dinosaur" Paluxey tracks are not what he claims them to be.
30 posted on 10/27/2009 9:42:19 AM PDT by whattajoke (Let's keep Conservatism real.)
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To: allmendream

If the theory of evolution is that man evolved from a lower order of animals, namely monkeys, why are there still monkeys around?


31 posted on 10/27/2009 9:43:13 AM PDT by Ev Reeman
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To: GodGunsGuts

Why should I want your place as “Hero disruptor of FreeRepublic” over at the DU? You do the job so well...


32 posted on 10/27/2009 9:43:53 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: whattajoke

Thanks, I was getting to that...

They say “keep an open mind”... as they delight in the act of filling it with crap...


33 posted on 10/27/2009 9:45:51 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: Ev Reeman

Mostly because no one has claimed that “man descended from monkeys” in the last 150 years... however GGG is giving baboons a hell of a run for the money.


34 posted on 10/27/2009 9:48:07 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: Ev Reeman
If the theory of evolution is that man evolved from a lower order of animals, namely monkeys, why are there still monkeys around?

I trust you are kidding. Right?

Just in case you're not, a) that's not what the theory of evolution states and b) your statement is also featured prominently on AIG's "Arguments creationists shouldn't use. I could expand upon my answer, but I'm fairly certain you were joking around.
35 posted on 10/27/2009 9:48:36 AM PDT by whattajoke (Let's keep Conservatism real.)
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To: xcamel; GodGunsGuts; Fichori; tpanther; valkyry1; Mr. Silverback; Gordon Greene; ...
You support postings of junk science to support a fairy tale.

Where? Please go back through my posting history and provide links to support your contention.

36 posted on 10/27/2009 9:51:50 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: metmom; xcamel

It’s kind of hard for xcamel to take a stand when she falls for anything.


38 posted on 10/27/2009 9:53:59 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: metmom; xcamel

“...all you’re interested in is tearing down anything you don’t like, Christianity in particular,...”

I’ve noticed that myself.


39 posted on 10/27/2009 9:55:55 AM PDT by scottdeus12 (Jesus is real, whether you believe in Him or not.)
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To: metmom
every one of your posts supports it. If they didn't you wouldn't have felt the need to ping out your support network for a "group hug"
40 posted on 10/27/2009 10:13:16 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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