Posted on 10/28/2009 11:12:18 AM PDT by jazusamo
So Boeing is threatening to jilt us (again). To run out on our nine decades of marriage with someone smarter? Better? More reliable?
Nope. With someone cheaper.
Take away the heat, all the union-bashing or management second-guessing as Boeing now appears ready to move a major piece of its plane-building operations to South Carolina. At the core of this breakup drama is a cold statistic: 14.
As in $14. Per hour.
That's the average pay of the local line workers who are building the fuselage of Boeing's 787 Dreamliner in a Charleston, S.C., plant.
Average pay of a Boeing Machinist around here? $28 an hour. Now, these pay averages aren't directly comparable, say people in the know. Many of Boeing's workers in South Carolina are younger or less experienced (the plant is only 4 years old). So the average pay there tilts lower.
Still, the average pay at Costco stores around Seattle is $17 an hour. According to PayScale, a Seattle company that tracks wages, the average for a hairstylist in Seattle is $18.24 an hour.
So Boeing right now is paying less to build airplanes in South Carolina than we pay for cutting hair or shelving 3-pound jars of olives.
How can we compete with that?
"It's like they have people who used to work at Kmart, trying to build an airplane."
That's Jack Day, a "shaper operator" at Boeing's sheet-metal plant in Auburn. Basically, he cuts parts in exacting detail so they fit into airplanes. Everything from flight decks to door frames.
He's been doing it for 37 years. His dad was a Boeing mechanic, and before that his grandmother was a factory clerk and a Rosie the Riveter.
(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.nwsource.com ...
The era of the American auto industry ended for good when Obama stole it and gave it to the UAW.
Only a moron would ever buy an ObamaMobile.
Foreign designed cars built in the south is the only patriotic and sane option now when buying an auto.
I can’t wait for the Obama/UAW auto industry to sink beneath the waves...I want them totally bankrupt, starving in the streets for their sins against this nation.
To the few remaining union manufacturing employees in America:
Ask not why Southern workers get paid half, ask instead why everything in the North costs twice as much.
Of course, when they move the entire line to South Carolina, the pay will likely increase, because there won’t be enough workers for the line who will work for that price, and they’ll have to pay more to bring other workers down.
Will still probably be a lot less than Seattle costs, but it won’t be $14.
That’s not very much money, btw. Kings Dominion paid $10/hour for the costumed workers at their Halloween haunt, if they had experience. Of course, there were no benefits.
I presume the Boeing workers get decent benefits, so the actual cost per worker is more than $14.
Actually, think about this from the Boeing company's long term perspective. The majority of their employees will or are eligible to retire soon. That means that a new production line will require "new workers" to train and new workers to replace skilled or experienced worker.
The difference to Boeing is not one of skilled workers versus unskilled workers, it is a difference of "a few" skilled workers and training mostly unskilled workers for a new line in Everett versus training mostly unskilled workers and possibly transferring a few skilled workers to a new facility in GA.
I think that it has been clear that the union has driven Boeing headquarters out of Puget Sound to Chicago, and that the Union is now driving more production out of Puget Sound to other states. I view it as really sad.
The Seattle Times had an interesting editorial on October 4, 2009 about the Governor and her "business plan" presented to Boeing to keep the second assembly line in Puget Sound. The article points out how Washington has some high tax costs compared to other states, but ultimately it is the Boeing unions that will make or break the decision. P.S. Remember that Boeing was a significant player in this States education "reform" program that tried to get schools to be more responsible for tuning out educated high school graduates. The result was that the State's approach to standardized testing of skill (the WASL)was repeatedly delayed and finally scraped by union (WEA) and the legislature. Now the Seattle School District is considering a policy of considering all "D's" as passing in high school. If that isn't enough, look at the following website http://www.gaosa.org/news.aspx?mode=detail&obj=1853 and you will see that 2/3rds of Georgia High School graduates enroll in college.
Now ask yourself who will be easier to train high school, community college and full 4-year university students in Washington or in Georgia. Which state offers lower wages? Which state offers lower taxes to Boeing?
As much as I hate to see it Boeing is leaving Puget Sound bit by bit, being driven out by the unions and government.
Well, different strokes for different folks.
IMHO if it’s produced in America then it’s American, If it’s produced in a foreign country, then it’s foreign. I don’t really think the product can be labeled foreign if it’s made here, and vice-versa.
In other words, if your Chevy or Ford or Mopar was made in Mexico or Canada, to me it’s a foreign car.
All of my vehicles were manufactured in this country.
It’s a crying shame, the unions are killing us, I cannot argue with that.
Good luck to the kids in the peach state.
Boeing holds emergency meeting for 787 employees
Boeing is holding an emergency meeting with Boeing employees. The meeting might be connected to the company’s expected decision about whether it will install a second 787 plant in Everett on in Charleston, S.C., the Society of Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace has confirmed.
“Our assumption is that yes, it has to do with the decision on the plant, and they’re going to notify the employees before an official announcement,” said Ray Goforth, executive director of SPEEA.
“Boeing traditionally gives us 12 to24 hours notice before any major announcement, and we have received no official notice,” he said.
Goforth said he does not know what is being said in the meeting, which he said began at 12:30 and is still ongoing.
“Everyone we’re tried to contact is in the meeting,” he said.
Sen. Patty Murray has been speaking with Boeing CEO Jim McNerney Wednesday afternoon, Murray’s office confirmed.
A source told seattlepi.com that the Boeing board might be meeting about the issue right now, and that there could be an announcement as early as this afternoon that the plant will go to South Carolina.
Update: Jon Ostrower at Flightblogger has tweeted that Charleston sources tell him there will be a mandatory managers meeting at 2 p.m. PST.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/183488.asp
I love Forks.
I remember one year I was going to hike the Ho, and the weather report said absolutely, guaranteed, that there would be NO rain for those three days.
Well, I’d never hiked the Ho without getting rained on, but they said it was 100% chance of sunshine, so...for the first time ever, I didn’t take any rain gear.
Sure enough, second day of the hike, it rained!
Ya’ can always make book on it raining on the peninsula. Except for Sequim!
Ed
1) relax restrictions that drive up the price of ... everything
2) lobby for tax cuts
3) repeat step 1
Send your $10 check to a senator that does.
What do these have in common? Old iron, RWD, mostly trucks. I have a Lincoln with 300 K on the original drive train, BUT...I know it was a livery package. My domestic FWD cars, from K car to Impala, fell apart before 150K and were useless. One even had a manual cable shifter which really made for interesting driving. See, you’re not driving a Cobalt or a Sebring or a Fusion, with which most Americans might be struggling.
Man, I hear where you’re coming from.
But that doesn’t mean that Americans can’t make great cars, or jets, or anything else. We did it before, and we can do it again.
Zerobamarhoid and gang of radical socialist commie bastards have to be replaced with patriots who give a damn.
That’s the hard part, compared to that, making cars is easy.
I would not like to see this happen for a couple of reasons. There IS something to the skill level of the people who work in the assembly plants. Boeing long had a policy of selecting their managers from the best of the workers. It paid off.
The line managers were typically non-nonsense folks who knew the business of building airplanes inside and out. That was true all the way to the top, who when I worked there, had started as a riveter.
Among the “professionals”, where I worked, there was a LOT more political cronyism and incompetence. Literally millions of dollars were pissed away on boondoggles and stupidity.
I’m not a fan of the IAM. But neither am I a believer that workers are “interchangeable” as some idiot managers believe.
I fear the idiots have taken over Boeing.
I don’t really understand your question, or is it a statement?
There’s junk produced here in this country as well as other countries.
I like to think that we produce less junk than other countries though, with the possible exception of Germany. But we all know the price of German made vehicles.
I try to buy American made stuff before foreign, although it’s getting more and more difficult to know where anything comes from.
Sometimes I have to give in and buy foreign, but I don’t get the same satisfaction as when it’s American, and I mean made here, by Americans.
Unfortunately, I disagree.
The thrust in QA/QC has been on "process control", which is good, but only as far as it goes. Quality has been consumed by numerous fads, which are largely repackaged old concepts, some of which flat don't work, especially in low volume production - like airplanes.
Boeing LONG worked on a basis of exacting specifications and seriously heavy inspection by independent inspectors.
One of my employers took on a new customer, who had literally fired nearly all of their QC inspectors, and replaced them with (largely foreign) quality "engineers", most with advanced degrees.
Unfortunately, they were about as practical as a screen door on a submarine. They loved expensive "procedures", and used quality tools that were utterly inappropriate to the work. I had one chide me on not using statistical process control on lot sizes of 6 pieces in a job shop environment. He carped on it until I finally told him that I taught statistical process control at the University of Houston and that his suggestion had zero statistical validity.
If guys like that take over, I don't want to ride on their airplanes anymore.
Absolutely, it can get wet here.
Sequim is only 16 minutes from my house, so we often have a place to go.
In my world, always be prepared for rain.... or far worse.
Before I retired, one of the hats I wore was SAR Coordinator..... many a hiker found themselves in trouble because of a sudden and unexpected weather change.
Mushroom pickers are the worst... they often get lost and they’re never prepared, but then, they don’t hike in as far as you might. LOL
Saltwater, forests, mountains, rivers, lakes, camping, hiking, rafting, spectacular views, fresh air, hunting & fishing, scuba, you name it, this is a Disneyland for folks that like adventure, beauty and “dancing with Mother Nature, but it’s not for the faint at heart... unless you live in Sequim.
In Sequim the greatest dangers are driving around trying to remember where their golf carts and houses are located. The “blue hairs” and older than dirt guys with “big ears and goofy hats” are far worse than the rain. LOL
I will turn 61 this month, I like Fedoras and I am starting to wonder just how large my ears might get. LOL
Well, the lib politicians and the unions have made it tough to do business here.
I wouldn’t blame Boeing if they loaded EVERYTHING up and left this state. Wealth redistribution is a thing to behold. California, we are right behind you.
It seems that the hope & changy thing might not be working out so well.
I'm just askin’....
Okay, if you take the downtown ferry, it’s a 2 1/ 2 hour trip, but if you drive around through Tacoma, it’s 3 hours.
Those times reflect staying within the speed limits, a potty break and when my wife is driving.
I can shave 20 to 30 minutes off of that trip, because I often speed and I don’t stop to pee.
I drive a new Tundra with nearly 400 horsepower.
I should add that all of the above depends on the time of day due to traffic and catching the ferry as soon as you pull into the dock.
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