Posted on 11/08/2009 3:47:41 AM PST by Scanian
WASHINGTON -- Last night's historic health-care legislation included a major compromise: a ban on federally funded abortion under a new government-run plan.
Conservative Democrats proposed the amendment, which passed, 240-194, late Friday as a way to break the impasse on the bill. Last night, 64 Democrats joined 176 Republicans in supporting the measure.
"The members on this issue have to be able to vote their conscience," said Rep. Bart Stupak, who proposed the amendment, which bars any woman who receives federal subsidies to help cover insurance costs from having an abortion under the plan.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
When our government votes against the wishes of the majority, they have met the textbook definition of tyranny. They only retain their ability to govern through the consent of the people. They are the ones who have wilfully taken actions to have their consent to govern revoked. By their actions they have made the current government of the United States illegitimate. All revolutions start with a singular point, and this is it.
According to the Declaration of Independence we have a right, as well as an obligation to abolish our government when it becomes destructive. We have the right, and duty, to overthrow the government when a “long train of abuses and usurpations” occurs. I could go on endlessly, listing these abuses, and usurpations, but it is not necessary at this point.
Proverbially, as far as I am concerned, this is the straw that broke the camel’s back. This is my Declaration of Independence, and woe to they whom have crossed the line from governance to monarchy. We are no longer citizens, but subjects, and as such, I demand the current “government’s” surrender and to vacate the seat of our government, or I will consider them to be occupiers, and will act accordingly.
Republicans are stupid. They could have defeated the health care bill by not supporting that amendment.
What frauds.
The Freeper “Political Stategists” are the stupid ones being unable to look at how that vote could be used to give an out to the Blue Dogs to excuse their having voted for this monstrosity.
I think many, if not all of the Blue Dogs are LIARS anyway. Nancy let them vote the way they did (39 against) because she didn't need the votes anyway.
You are assuming Blue Dogs would have shot down this bill because of the abortion provision -- that would have ratcheted up the stakes enough that Nancy wouldn't have allowed it. They would have fallen into line just like all the others, if it were crucial to passage of the bill.
(And you thought YOU were cynical ;) What I'm saying is true though!))
At any rate next year I have resolved to target all the BLUE DOGS since they are most vulnerable and are the least honest about where their sentiments lie.
No way it would have passed. There were a handful of Democrats who said they would not vote for the bill without this amendment. The GOP should have no voted on it.
Let me get this straight - you say that they )Republicans) should vote against their beliefs and principles (pro-life)? I understand a little about the politics, but there is a last day judgement when account must be given.
It’s pretty easy to suggest that other folks violate their own conscience.
Don't get so wedded to your emotion based opinions that you ride a mistaken notion down in flames.
The leader of the blue dogs said he was voting FOR the bill regardless of how the amendment went. This was just posturing to give political cover back home for the blue dogs in 2010
IF the GOP had voted against it, the blue dogs would of still voted for the bill while blaming the GOP for the failure of anti Abortion amendment.
It was a no win position for the GOP.
The GOP got no part in this debate on the health care reform bill. The whole bill goes against the beliefs and principles of the GOP. The GOP should have just refused to vote on the bill or any amendments in protest.
Exactly!
This was stooopid on the part of the Pubes because without a bill, there would have been nuttin to worry about anyway.
Additionally, IF anyone believes this provision won't be added back in, well I've got a nice __________whatever for sale, cheap!!!
I don't discount Stupak's strong beliefs or intentions, but I wonder after first proposed whether this was not seen by the Rats as a way to insure passage and couldn't the Republitards not have realized this???
No Deal: Pro-Life Democrat Still Vowing to Kill Health Care Bill
Thursday, November 05, 2009
By Matt Cover, Staff Writer
Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), co-chairman of the House Pro-Life Caucus.
(CNSNews.com) - Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) told CNSNews.com on Thursday he has not reached an agreement with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and therefore he and dozens of pro-life Democrats are still poised to kill the House health care bill.
Stupak has organized a group of about 40 Democrats who are committed to killing the health care bill if Pelosi (D.-Calif.) does not allow them a straight up-or-down vote on an amendment that would prohibit federal dollars from paying for any part of any health insurance plan that covers abortions.
Stupak and his approximately 40 allies plan to vote against the special “rule” that would govern the terms of the House floor debate on the health care bill. If this rule does not win a majority vote, the House cannot proceed to consideration of the bill itself.
Exactamundo!
They should just have walked out en mass and held a news conference on the the Capital Steps explaining that as they were not allowed any voice in the shaping or language of the bill or to offer any amendments, why should they participate in this charade
Then the Rats would have owned it lock, stock and boondoggle.
You really think Pelosi would have allowed this Pro-Life amendment if she did not absolutely have to have it???? Bull$#)*
You’re right (always). I posted in ignorance.
I wouldn’t have voted yea on this amendment in any case. It claimed to be “pro-life,” but it only was pro-life for some, not all, in violation of the principles of equality of all before the law, and the unalienable, God-given right to life of all persons.
And, it was stupid. It gave just enough Congressmen just enough political cover to vote for the final bill.
Unprincipled and stupid. The whole thing made me sick.
“You really think Pelosi would have allowed this Pro-Life amendment if she did not absolutely have to have it????”
Of if she wasn’t absolutely certain they would get it overturned by the Supreme Court under the 4th Amendment or something ?
Exactly. Republicans fell into their trap.
It was a stupid move, and they fell for it.
Not a brain in any of their heads.
You continue, as usual, to be an insulting human being. I wish you would find another forum for your ego.
That goes to show that the pubbies care more about how their voting records are perceived in their right-leaning districts than about what is actually happening to the country.
“They aren’t even pretending to be journalists anymore. Work the Democrats slogan right into the 1st sentence of their “news” article.”
I’ve been noticing that. Everything in ythe media is framed in the Left’s made-up euphemisms for their unconstitutional crimes.
Correct, and the people who claimed they had to vote for it were even worse. They were so damn dumb as not to think, there would not be 4,000 exceptions are clauses inserted in committee to make the abortion prevention loop hole land, if the senate approves a bill with it in.
You can bet the ranch, that somewhere on some line there will be an exception clause big enough to drive a train through.
You really think Pelosi would have allowed this Pro-Life amendment if she did not absolutely have to have it???? Bull$#)*
It's a small concession given the stakes overall. Besides, "...except in cases of incest, rape or when the life of the mother was in danger" is a HUGE loophole -- just wait til that is 'defined' in reconciliation, if it even survives.
As a catholic, I am confused and frankly upset that the US Conference of Catholic Bishops signed on to this, with the provision of “incest and rape” exclusion in the amendment. Life is life regardless of how it happened. I don’t believe the baby knows the difference.
“but there is a last day judgement when account must be given.”
Let me get this straight. You are willing to give up the Constitution of this Country and move toward a Communist State with complete control over your body and eventually mind because of a fear of Judgment day.
There is another posting on this forum about a group that stopped an abortion clinic because of Prayer and yet we have a large group here that want to stop abortion by political means. Now which group do I think is more effective. I’ll let you guess. I think the passing of the anti-abortion vote was insignificant because the vote will only last until the health bill passes and then it will be changed by our new overlords. Do you remember the take one step back to move two steps forward tactic of the Communist’s. Well you’ve just seen it in action.
When is the political anti-abortion crowd going to realize that they are very similar to the Communists and other groups. Yes, the Communists like Pelosi. You want to control people by forcing them into your way. You can’t seem to convince them of the moral superiority of your position. You are no different than the other side. This is what is causing us to loose our Country. Using these tactics we will never be able to win. You will never find perfect elected officials, they are human. Conservative’s that believe in the Constitution are a winner every time. We don’t have to be in perfect agreement.
If you haven’t figured it out yet, you are acting like the Jews waiting for the NAZI’s to round them up. My moral principles won’t let me fight. They may have been morally superior but they were dead.
Me I vote for Freedom and the ability to convince people of the advantage of being anti-abortion, not the power to force them. Soon we won’t have the freedom to convince them.
That is why I’m a Strict Constructionist. If you truly believe in the Bible then you have to let GOD judge, not become a Judge yourself. If you don’t to stand on the side of Freedom and the Constitution the rest probably won’t matter in the long run.
The abortion purity issue is one of the most brilliant tactical moves the left has come up with to destroy the Republican Party and turn us into the RINO party. It has also become a real winner for the those that forget Matthew 7 and build monuments to their own ego’s. Beware of False Profits some wear the cloth.
Do you think that what is happening could also be the reason that the Founding Fathers built our government on Christian Principles but wanted to avoid the establishment of an Official Religion? I believe that these men were Divinely Blessed. Why should we try to second guess them.
Remember the people that held the Salem Witch trials probably believed that they were the only game in town.
see my post 15
Moreover, abortion was not legalized by a shift in public opnion, let alone by a legislative act or a series of legislative acts based on the popular will. Keep in mind that Roe v Wade overturned state laws in all 50 states (isn'tthat remarkable? 50 out of 50?) Prenatal child-killing was legalized, and has been maintained in "legality", by almost 40 years of raw judicial tyranny.
My point is that reverse tyranny is not going to solve the problem. It has to be done in the minds of the people by teaching and we will not get the chance if we keep throwing out politicians that believe in the Constitution because they are not perceived as “pure” on the abortion issue. The other side doesn’t believe in the Constitution, the Bible or in the Right to Life, whether prenatal or postnatal especially if your not on their good for them list.
We have to get real. Every chance a person gets they should try to teach right from wrong and live by example but I think were going to have to let God do the sorting or this country is gone.
I guess we would have thrown out Churchill, Eisenhower and Patton if we had know their position on abortion. Remember the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
You make some good points. I have not advocated, across the board and without exception, “throwing out politicians that believe in the Constitution because they are not perceived as “pure” on the abortion issue.” It depends on who s/he’s running against.
“It depends on who s/he’s running against.”
I agree if it’s a primary fight. If not we can’t afford to waste a vote for protecting the Constitution. RINO’s not included obviously.
I would also have to put in one caveat. If someone is running whose record on the Constitution is such that they favor immigration “reform” and big government then I will take a strict constructionist over the anti-abortion candidate any day. Without the Constitution we loose everything.
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