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Preadaptation: A Blow to Irreducible Complexity?
ACTS & FACTS ^ | November 2009 | Brian Thomas, M.S.

Posted on 11/16/2009 6:19:30 PM PST by GodGunsGuts

Molecular biologist Michael Behe described a system made of several interacting parts, whereby the removal of one part would disrupt the functioning of the whole, as irreducibly complex. Both creation scientists and intelligent design proponents highlight examples of irreducible complexity in their studies. The very structure of these systems--with their interdependent parts working all together or not at all--demands design, not chance.

Nevertheless, a team of evolutionary molecular biologists think they may have refuted irreducible complexity. They recently studied the parts of a particular cellular machine involved in protein transport, claiming that it was actually reducible to its component parts...

(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: antiscienceevos; belongsinreligion; bible; biology; catholic; cellbiology; christian; christianity; christianright; creation; darwin; darwiniacs; darwinism; dna; evangelical; evolution; evoreligionexposed; god; godsgravesglyphs; intelligentdesign; judaism; molecularbiology; notasciencetopic; politics; preadaption; propellerbeanie; protestant; science; spammer; templeofdarwin
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To: Natural Law

I find it more than amusing that evos use math to support the ToE when it suits them and dismiss math when it indicates that the ToE is improbable simply from a statistical perspective.


41 posted on 11/16/2009 8:49:37 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Cicero

Isn’t “intra species evolution” simply natural selection by another name?


42 posted on 11/16/2009 8:49:45 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: metmom

> extrapolation is not science.<

Really?

“Spatial extrapolation: the science of predicting ecological patterns and processes.”

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-246263/Spatial-extrapolation-the-science-of.html


43 posted on 11/16/2009 8:50:08 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: Natural Law
Sorry, but extrapolation is a process in mathematics used to find the value of a function outside its tabulated values.

Fine. It's math. It still isn't science.

Haven't you heard that math and science aren't the same thing?

44 posted on 11/16/2009 8:50:42 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

http://www.answers.com/topic/extrapolation


45 posted on 11/16/2009 8:51:04 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: metmom

>Fine. It’s math. It still isn’t science.<

Really?

“Drug development can be a science of extrapolation...”

http://www.aapsj.org/view.asp?art=aapsj070247


46 posted on 11/16/2009 8:52:17 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: metmom
"Haven't you heard that math and science aren't the same thing?"

Only in K-12.

47 posted on 11/16/2009 8:52:39 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: metmom

>Fine. It’s math. It still isn’t science.<

Really?

“Science for the Extrapolation of Pharmacokinetic Properties to Human in the New Millennium Entering the Paradigm Shift of Drug Discovery and Development.”

http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200103/000020010300A0997691.php


48 posted on 11/16/2009 8:54:53 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: Ira_Louvin

mouflon sheep, Ira, mouflon sheep.


49 posted on 11/16/2009 8:58:11 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

2362


50 posted on 11/16/2009 9:02:27 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: GodGunsGuts
Wikipedia has provided this indisputeable example of preadaptation, expation, or maybe preaddlepation:

“Another example is the hypothesis proposed by zoologist Jonathan Kingdon that before early humans became bipedal, they began engaging in squat feeding, i.e. turning over rocks and leaves to find insects, worms, snails and other food. Consequently, they adapted flatter feet than were necessary in their previous tree-dwelling ancestors, since that makes squatting much easier. Flatter feet are also extremely useful for bipedal animals, so they can be described as a preadaptation to bipedalism, even though (or rather because) the adaptation had nothing to do with bipedalism originally.”

I wonder how they walked around to find all this stuff to squat down to and why they would have such long legs to need to squat down?

51 posted on 11/16/2009 9:05:33 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Natural Law
Sorry, but extrapolation is a process in mathematics used to find the value of a function outside its tabulated values. This is done as in interpolation by assuming that over a small range of x the function may be closely approximated by a polynomial or some other readily computed function. Any of the interpolation formulas can be used, therefore, and the desired value of x substituted in them.

I'm curious. Since these aren't your words, was it your intention to give readers the impression the reasoning contained therein is yours?

52 posted on 11/16/2009 9:20:35 PM PST by csense
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To: csense
"Since these aren't your words"

It is as I was taught in college. In mathematics exact definitions are important, but I don't suppose you would appreciate that. Since I never claimed to invent the field of mathematics your snarky comments aren't appreciated.

53 posted on 11/16/2009 9:29:30 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: Natural Law
So you went to college at Answers.com?

What I appreciate is character, integrity, and honesty. If you possessed any of those qualities you wouldn't have interpreted my initial post to you as snarky.

Believe me, if I decide to get snarky with you, you'll know it.

54 posted on 11/16/2009 9:48:13 PM PST by csense
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To: ColdWater

Interesting tagline, it begs two questions:

1) If ToE has naught to do with what you are trying to do, then why participate in the discussion, especially on the pro-ToE side in pro-creation threads?

2) What is it that you are really trying to do here on FR?


55 posted on 11/17/2009 4:31:28 AM PST by RoadGumby (Ask me about Ducky)
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To: ElectronVolt
He would have to interfere with laws of physics, laws that He wrote. In general, you are correct, BUT, God has many times interfered with the physical laws He wrote. Red Sea splitting, 3 Hebrew children in the fire, Jesus (and Peter) walking on water, blindness, sicknessbeing cured by Jesus, dead being brought to life. Science tells us that NONE of those above things could happen. Yet they did. So, why the mental wall about Creation?
56 posted on 11/17/2009 4:41:08 AM PST by RoadGumby (Ask me about Ducky)
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To: Ira_Louvin

What you are calling micro-evolution is adaptation. And adaptation is NOT evolution, nor does adaptation become evolution over time. There are not ‘intermediary forms’ of animals found in any fossil remains. None.

Man has bred and re-bred dogs to get characteristics that are useful, ALL are still dogs, none are yet a dolphin. A type of animal can adapt to its environment, BUT, in the end, it is still that kind of animal.

It appears from your tagline that you are perhaps a Christian. If so, why do you seek to not only disbelieve Gods Word, but also to publicly attempt to discredit it?


57 posted on 11/17/2009 4:53:49 AM PST by RoadGumby (Ask me about Ducky)
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To: Natural Law

BUT, as has been pointed in various threads, mathematics is NOT science. Science can prove Nothing, while math can. Science is testing of hypotheses, discarding those that do not line up with the data that are observed.


58 posted on 11/17/2009 4:58:40 AM PST by RoadGumby (Ask me about Ducky)
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To: RoadGumby; Natural Law; Alamo-Girl; betty boop
BUT, as has been pointed in various threads, mathematics is NOT science. Science can prove Nothing, while math can. Science is testing of hypotheses, discarding those that do not line up with the data that are observed.

Pointed out by EVOS I may add.

59 posted on 11/17/2009 5:12:52 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: csense; Natural Law

What? PALGARISM?!?!

An evo passing off other’s material as their own without citing it?!?!?

Aren’t they the ones who blow a gasket about it when creationists do it?


60 posted on 11/17/2009 5:15:42 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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