You may not be pro-Israel if...

Israpundit ^ | Dec 7/09 | Moshe Phillips

[tedbel]

The recent media attention garnered by the relatively new J Street lobby necessitates an examination of the very notion of the term “Pro-Israel.” Until very recently the J Street was always self-branded as “Pro-Israel”.

Intensifying the matter is the case of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. Emanuel spoke on November 10, 2009 at the General Assembly/GA of the Jewish Federations of North America, the largest and most important event on the U.S. Jewish establishment’s calendar. Emanuel has been called “Pro-Israel” by the media. It should be clear that the label “Pro-Israel” must be defined if the term is to be understood to have any meaning at all…

And so:

You may not be “Pro-Israel” if you support the establishment of a “Palestinian State”.

You may not be “Pro-Israel” if you think that there is any “Final Status” for Jerusalem other than as the Eternal and United Capitol of the State of Israel and the Jewish People.

You may not be “Pro-Israel” if the words “Final Status” does not sound in your ears just too close to “Final Solution”.

You may not be “Pro-Israel” if you fail to advocate the immediate relocation of the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.

You may not be “Pro-Israel” if you think that “East Jerusalem” is anything but a myth created to wrench Jerusalem away from Israel./ol

[left that other site]

I guess I AM Pro-Israel. :-)

[sitetest]

Is one ANTI-Israel if one thinks that he should defer to the Israeli people on most of these questions?

[Androcles]

Let’s lock all the Palestinians and Israelis into a big room, throw away the key and forget about them. Last survivor standing gets the land...

[firebrand]

Possibly.

Is one anti-American if one leaves everything up to our president and Congress? Just could be.

[Romulus]

So...basically, a list of ten political reasons a person can be smeared as anti-semitic. Thanks, I guess, for the warning/threat.

[sitetest]

Dear firebrand,

“Is one anti-American if one leaves everything up to our president and Congress? Just could be.”

I didn't say, “the Israeli executive and Knesset,” but rather, “the Israeli people.”

As well, I didn't say that I thought that everything that the Israeli people might decide to do would be good ideas. As an example, I'm kinda iffy on the whole Palestinian state project. My own preference would be to invite the arabs who occupy Judea and Samaria to leave for actual arab lands, like Jordan, Egypt, or other points north, south, or east.

Nonetheless, I'm not an Israeli, nor a Jew. It's hard for me to justify why my views should matter more than those of the folks who actually live in Israel, or folks with some sort of organic attachment thereto. I recognize that my own preferred solution may be seen by many WHO ACTUALLY LIVE THERE as impossible, and perhaps even undesirable.

And my own inclination is to defer to the judgment of the folks who actually live there.

sitetest

[firebrand]

You’re forgetting that our president and Congress were elected. That’s the method we have of taking the temperature of the American people. They were elected by people who do not have America’s best interests at heart.

[sitetest]

Dear firebrand,

“You’re forgetting that our president and Congress were elected.”

I forgot nothing.

“That’s the method we have of taking the temperature of the American people.”

No, it's actually how we select our representatives.

It doesn't mean that the people generally endorse the policies chosen by these representatives. As an example, support for Obamacare is under 40%.

If those elected cared about what ordinary Americans thought, there would be no pending Obamacare legislation, no pending cap and trade legislation, no GM/Chrysler bailout, no TARP and no Porkulus.

But even if the people DID support these initiatives, I'd be hard-pressed to say that I'd especially want someone from outside the United States telling us what we should or shouldn't do.

Similarly, I don't think that I have much standing to tell Israelis how to run their country.

sitetest

[firebrand]

The low polling numbers were not true a year ago. We can't hold elections every year. Obama did not tell us exactly who he was and what he intended, a lot of people made a very bad mistake and have buyer's remorse, and there is no way to fix that easily until the next election.

In any case, my point is that just as some Americans are more pro-America than others, some Israelis and more pro-Israel than others. I didn't mean we should tell them what to do. We can't even do what's best for America.

[sitetest]

Dear firebrand,

“The low polling numbers were not true a year ago. We can't hold elections every year. Obama did not tell us exactly who he was and what he intended, a lot of people made a very bad mistake and have buyer's remorse, and there is no way to fix that easily until the next election.”

All true. And it actually supports my assertion that although we elect our representatives, they don't necessarily represent what we think very well. Thus, the distinction between the elected leaders of a country, and the people of the country, itself.

“In any case, my point is that just as some Americans are more pro-America than others, some Israelis and more pro-Israel than others.”

Not especially relevant. I made clear that I might not agree with every position that is a consensus view among Israelis. I merely asked that if I thought that I should defer judgment to ACTUAL ISRAELIS on these issues, would it count as being anti-Israel? You haven't made the case that it would.

sitetest

[firebrand]

If you don’t think what I said is relevant, then I really don’t have anything else to say. You either know exactly what I mean and are arguing for the sake of saving face or ego, or else you don’t know what I mean. I don’t know which is worse.

[dennisw]

So...basically, a list of ten political reasons a person can be smeared as anti-semitic. Thanks, I guess, for the warning/threat...........

For paranoid loons, yes

[sitetest]

Dear firebrand,

“If you don’t think what I said is relevant, then I really don’t have anything else to say. You either know exactly what I mean and are arguing for the sake of saving face or ego, or else you don’t know what I mean.”

Actually, I was thinking pretty much the same thing about you.

sitetest

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks tedbel.

Until very recently the J Street was always self-branded as "Pro-Israel"... Emanuel has been called "Pro-Israel" by the media.

Obama's "pro-Israel" stance has probably been verified by the unbiased factcheck.org...

[dervish]

Thanks for posting. I enjoy your blog.

JStreet is funded by Arabs. Since when have Arabs EVER funded anything pro-Israel.

[Cinnamon Girl]

11. You may not be pro-Israel if you don't think it's biased reporting to refer to the IDF as nazis.

12. You may not be pro-Israel if you cried bitter tears when Bibi was elected, and you are a BBC reporter.

13. You may not be pro-Israel if you refer to Israel as "Occupied Palistine."

14. You may not be pro-Israel if your first name is Barack and your last name is Obama. Never mind that your middle name is Hussein.

15. You may not be pro-Israel if you've lived in a "refugee camp" for the last 40 years and your children's textbooks don't even have "Israel" on a map of the middle east.

This is the Bibi Ping List.

[stephenjohnbanker]

I’m pro Israel, and Bibi too!

[SevenofNine]

I think it safe to say I am Pro Israel and Pro Bibi