Barak: 'Regular' Attack Cannot Hit Iran's Nuclear Plant

IsraelNationalNews ^ | December 28, 2009 | By Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu

[Fennie]

The recently-revealed Qom nuclear plant in Iran is buried so deep under concrete that a "regular" military attack would not affect it, Defense Minister Ehud Barak revealed to the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Security Committee on Monday.

Concerning Iran, the Defense Minister said that the Qom nuclear reactor was under construction for several years and is buried in a bunker that is resistant to regular bombing. He did not mention the prospect of a nuclear strike.

[jwparkerjr]

re: can simply be entombed

My first reaction too! For every upside there’s downside. In this case it’s the fact they still depend on eventual communication and connection with the outside world if the facility is to be anywhere near useful. Block that ability and you soon have the same problem as the guy who is constipated.

[Vaquero]

Anti-matter is a reality?

yes but it would take next to forever to create enough to do any damage....better off using nukes....

[varon]

I don’t care how deep it is, there’s an easy way to destroy it that doesn’t involves nukes, anti matter, or plasma warheads... The US and our allies know it but I doubt they’ll use it.

OMG, I hope circumstances don't deteriorate to the point where they have to unleash the, the, the dreaded SAND WORMS.

[Bobalu]

“Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man.”
- General George Patton Jr

The following are my thoughts on this matter...posted some time ago... I still see no alternative that is less appalling than this. If anyone has a saner plan they should step up.

---

Attacking Iran for a 1 - 3 year delay will not be enough. Israel will go well beyond that in my opinion.

Anyone expecting Israel to execute an ordinary sort of attack is mistaken. Circumstances call for something quite extraordinary.

Recent movements by Israeli subs were not sight seeing tours, they almost certainly were dropping munitions on the sea floor for retrieval during a future attack. The subs cannot carry adequate stores of cruise missiles for extended action so they have positioned a supply near Iran.

If Iran were geographically closer Israel could easily use conventional means to totally destroy their nuclear capabilities... but only the United States has the ability to do that, and we all know 0 is not going to step up.

So Israel must do something drastic, simple air strikes with conventional bombs and bunker busters won’t get the job done this time. Israel could of course annihilate Iran using nuclear weapons, but they will not do that unless they are forced to. They will try something else first, something not as drastic as an all out nuclear attack, something very risky and dramatic.

I wrote the following back in May after thinking a long time about what options Israel really has, months later I still can think of no other reasonable option. It is either suffer another holocaust, launch an all out nuclear attack, or try something like this.

The Iranian installations that are in bunkers are what really need destroying to stop their nuclear program.

Nuclear bunker busters might be used, but even a 400kt device like our B61-11 might have difficulty penetrating to a sufficient depth to contain the blast and thus prevent massive fallout when the blast breached the surface and spewed many tons of radioactive debris into the sky. And although a 400kt or even 1 megaton warhead is a very powerful thing...it is quite weak underground when the target for destruction is a fortified bunker. It would be the shock wave that would need to destroy the bunker and for that a 400kt device would need to detonate very close to the bunker, perhaps as close as 400-700 feet. The problem is that even though you know where the entrances to the bunker are the actual bunker might be anywhere within a mile or so from those entrances. This means you would need to somehow get a precise location of the bunker by placement of seismic sensors ahead of time (listening for the sounds from industrial machinery and determining where the sound originates from)

A much more promising attack would be to take control of all the entrances and exits to such an installation and the surrounding area for an extended time.

To hold such an area from the types of assaults the Iranians could bring to bear would require creating your own hasty underground fortifications near the entrances to the bunker.

Massive mine laying would be required to protect against human-wave attacks such as were used in the Iran/Iraq war.
Iranian missile attacks would be totally ineffective against even hastily made Israeli underground defenses and could be dismissed as a real threat.

Chem/biological weapons would be used and so preparations would need to be made for protection.

It might in extreme circumstances be necessary to use battlefield neutron weapons to keep attacking forces at bay... this would require the Israelis to first actually possess such weapons (likely) and be willing to use them in extreme circumstances (also likely), they would also need to be able to protect themselves from the heavy neutron bombardment...this can be done but is not an easy thing to engineer quickly in the field so preparation would need to be underway immediately upon taking control of the area.

The neutron weapons would be able to immediately incapacitate attackers (even inside tanks) inside a blast radius of about 1/3 mile with a radiation dose of roughly 80 Gy...after such a dose only a very few ‘walking deadmen’ would be able to remain active, and those for a very short time.
The small radiation weapons would release the force of about 1kt compared to a conventional nuclear weapon...this is a very small yield and would pose no threat at all to Israeli soldiers in even rudimentary underground shelter.

The Israeli force would need to be supplied with food and other essentials for a possible extended time...long enough to locate and destroy the Iranian underground installations by placing appropriate charges, nuclear or conventional.

This would certainly call for a dedicated force of extraordinary men....but such men do exist and I’m certain Israel has enough of them to do the job.

If anyone else has a better idea for an Israeli plan of action I’d like to hear it... Diplomacy is a dead end...literally.

[Charles H. (The_r0nin)]

The other problem is that antimatter would make a very poor explosive. First, a chemical or nuclear explosion does massive damage not only because of the energy released, but also because of the massive shock blast (caused by the air surrounding the explosive being hypercompressed by the explosion). In fact, the shock wave is the largest contributor for conventional explosives, and at least equally as destructive as the energy release during the intial blast of a nuke (ignoring fallout/radiation). Antimatter does not feature the same explosive blast. The antimatter only reacts at its point of contact between the matter and antimatter. For this reason, it would be difficult to convert the entire warhead at once: if the matter surrounded the warhead, the reaction would tend to separate the matter from the antimatter (slowing the reaction). If a matter plug was introduced into the antimatter, the same problem occurs... as the antimatter reacts with the matter around it, less matter remains close enough to react. And a slower reaction means less of a shock wave. Your antimatter "bomb" will be more like a fire (in reaction types) than an explosion.

Second, chemical explosives release energy in a narrow range of wavelengths (based on the chemical reaction causing the explosion). Narrow range means concentration. Antimatter-matter reactions release energy all across the spectrum (from gamma to ELF radio). Granted, antimatter reactions release magnitudes more energy than conventional weapons, but in a much broader range, reducing the energy advantage significantly. Combined with the lessened blast wave, and you'd be better off with carefully applied conventional weapons (or a nuke), especially when you consider the incredible expense of antimatter. As a fuel, antimatter would be awesome, but as a weapon... it'll be relegated to the same category as Star Wars lightsabres and Star Trek photon torpedoes for a long time to come...

[MindBender26]

The problem is, you are thinking 1st and 2d Challange. In 3d Challange warfare, we cannot afford to spend 27 trazilion dollars building such a weapon when they can spend $25,000 on flight lessons and a few nights at Motel 6, then hikack a 747 and fly it into a large building.

Remember, it was pure luck that the plane hit the Pentagon. The pilot couldn’t find the White House. It looks very different from the air. Try it on Google Earth.

The Shanksville A/C was headed for the Capitol Building. We had no viable ADA in place to protect either.

It's a different war, a different world.

[killjoy]

(Read the full article and then consider the possibilities of major funding by Black Ops, regardless of whats publicly said its a possibility as a weapon)

Enjoying your Christmas break time away from Jnr High?

[hennie pennie]

*ping*

[hennie pennie]

*ping*

[Genoa]

Psy-ops.

[babygene]

“Let’s hope the radioactive dust does not hit our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.”

I can’t imagine that would be a problem. Do you have any idea how many nuclear warheads were detonated in Nevada? Hundreds...

[null and void]

Causes one to wonder why our new and improved bunker buster bomb was put on hold....

Because it would be used against muslims. DUH!

[Hoosier-Daddy]

"The Shanksville A/C was headed for the Capitol Building. We had no viable ADA in place to protect either."

Everybody knows, the best time to fly a plane into the Capitol would be at the State of the Union Address. Problem solved.

[dervish]

One (Israeli) is the most decorated soldier in the country’s history and the founding leader of its special forces. The other is a commie totus who has never done anything in his life except con the American people.

[George from New England]

“Is he really this stupid?

Somebody get the kid out of the White House.”

Don’t you expect that Israel “is using” these idiots and administration. Israel is not stupid.

[Jewbacca]

"Underground installations have ventilation shafts"

Yes, and at 2 meters, they are the same size as womp rats that our boys used to hit at home all the time.



Seriously, as a pilot, the solution is a high mass penatrator. In the age of smart weapons, vent shafts now have 90 degree bends in the them, as do doors, and they are far from the target.

The idea of an orbital weapon coming down like the fist of an angry god is really not that absurd. Israel certainly could orbit one.

[TheThirdRuffian]

“storing the stuff would be something else.”

Make it a noble element (e.g., Helium) and keep it very cold.

[NormsRevenge]

Too bad DEms stood staunchly in the way of building a better bunkerbuster, eh, O?

[WayneS]

I agree.

They should nuke it.

[Repeal The 17th]

“...vent shafts now have 90 degree bends in the them,
as do doors, and they are far from the target...”
-
It doesn’t matter how many bends they have or how far away they are;
destroying the ventilation and the access makes the facility useless.