Posted on 01/08/2010 7:30:02 AM PST by rxsid
Deal has written to Obama last month requesting that he prove his eligibility and InspectorSmith says Deal already has a copy of Lucas Smith's Mombassa BC.
Per InspectorSmith 01-07-10
"I want to remind everyone on the forum (or report for the first time for those who are not aware) that on November 6th, 2009, the American Grand Jury sent US Congressman Nathan Deal (via registered mail) a copy of the 1961 Coast Province General Birth Certificate of Barack Hussein Obama II. "One their website you can view copies of the certified mail receipts to US Congressman Nathan Deal as well as the contents of the mail, i.e., Barack Obama's 1961 Kenyan birth certificate from Mombasa."
http://americangrandjury.org/category/kenyan-birth-certificate http://www.youtube.com/user/InspectorSmith
The Smith and Blaine documents are totally complimentary and can explain how HI officials can state that Obama's "vital records" say he was born in Honolulu.
If you look at field 6a on the Blaine BC, "Place of Birth", it says "Honolulu" with a footnote "1". So Fukino can say that the HI vital records state that Obama was born in Honolulu!
But the next line in the Blaine BC, Field 6c, contradicts a Honolulu birth when it says "Name of Hospital" "Unknown--Kenya, Africa" The contradiction is restated in field 23, "Evidence for Delayed Filing or Alteration", when it says (explaining the footnote "1" in field 6a): "1. Birthplace: Kenya;Registered Honolulu. HRS 338-17.8 per Grandmother"
The statute cited in field 23 wasn't passed until 1982 so the last part of field 23 beginning with HRS was typed after 1982. The typed line beginning at "HRS" is uneven indicting multiple insertions of the document into the typewriter, perhaps at different times, possibly first in 1961 and then later, sometime after 1982.
It is not clear whether the contents of field 23, as named, are evidence for delayed filing, evidence of alteration or both. The first part of field 23 up to "Honolulu." could be evidence in support of a delayed filing explaining lack of a hospital BC that was typed in 1961. Or the entire footnote could be to explain evidence of alteration i.e. identifying the source of the Kenya birth report, and was typed after 1982.
We don't know whether any further alterations (amendments) of the vital records for Obama were made after this image was obtained. An affidavit from the mother or grandmother could easily have declared that the hospital location and footnote were in error, for example and that would leave only field 6a "Place of Birth" "Honolulu" as valid.
Perhaps there is some obscure HI statute or policy that makes the contents of field 6a govern legally what the HI officials are allowed to publicly report in spite of the Kenya hospital mentioned in field 6c and in the footnote, and that is exactly what they have done! Honolulu!
Or Obama himself may have filed an entirely new delayed filing after 1982 on his own behalf submitting his own evidence and affidavits, and this amended BC from Obama may be the basis of the COLB.
The Blaine BC only shows as being accepted by the Local Registrar in field 20, which is the local filing. But field 22, "Accepted by General Reg." is blank meaning that the Blaine BC does not show as being "accepted" by HI vital records. The Factcheck COLB also only says filed, not accepted. This would explain all of the secrecy.
I agree. Take the bull by the horns so to speak...and send it to him!
Yes, very possible that it was typed in at a later date.
ping...of possible interest...
Thanks, here’s hoping...
Remember people were questioning use of the word "African" in the Factcheck COLB and not "negro" as would be expected? The Blaine BC has both terms in the race field as "Negro - African" and the short form picked up the latter term.
So Fukino and HI officials can say that Obama's long form vital record (Blaine) says he was born in Honolulu while omitting the fact that that same record says the hospital was in Kenya! Privacy laws in HI may preclude them from disclosing or even hinting at the contradiction in the records without facing legal action from Obama.
January 11, 2010 at 11:27 AM
John Charlton: You and Leo D’Onofrio might be interested in the thread on Free Republic discussing Hemenway’s filing of judicial notice of HI Territorial Law 57 allowing the issuance of COLBs to infants not born in HI posted by rxsid. There is also discussion pointing to reasons why the Blaine BC might actually be valid and filed under that law (Blaine discussion begins at comment #57 by rxsid, especially note my comment #121).
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2423856/posts?q=1&;page=1
A plausible rationale for the notation of a 1982 statute in a footnote in the Blaine BC, which some folks jumped on to declare “hoax” for appearing in a 1961 document is discussed. The footnote may well have been added after 1982 in field 23, which is where “alterations” such as a 1982 footnote to explain the discrepancy between location of birth in Honolulu and name of hospital in Kenya would be placed.
The field 6a on the Blaine long form say “Location of Birth” is “Honolulu”, yet field 6c “Name of hospital” says “Unknown — Kenya, Africa” and a post-1982 footnote says the information was provided by Grandmother. So Blaine maps perfectly to the summary Factcheck short form COLB which says location of birth is Honolulu, but that short form doesn’t have a hospital name field, so the short form omits any reference to an unknown Kenya hospital.
If the Blaine BC is valid, Fukino and HI officials can state honestly that Obama’s vital record says he was born in Honolulu. They might be subject to legal action by Obama under HI statutes if they were to disclose the hospital name on that same vital record is “Unknown — Kenya, Africa”.
"Mr. Charlton replies: There are internal problems with the Blaine document, not to mention provenance issues since the one releasing it, wont confirm the release:
http://www.thepostemail.com/2009/10/19/the-blaine-document/
I wrote back on Oct. 19th, in regard to the Blaine Document: “The document is also self contradictory, since a Doctor cannot certify a live birth at a foreign hospital. He has to be present to do that.”
The first part is a problem, since the one releasing it won't even confirm the release.
However, as to the "Doctor" signing it. Wasn't it determined that the same person signed both boxes, 18 and 19a? If that is true, then whomever signed the "application", also signed the "Dr's" name as well. If that's true, then of course no Dr. signed certifying a live birth at a foreign hospital.
I strenuously dispute the contention that the same person signed on 18a and 19a, staring with the capital Ms and then the 8s in the date.
Here is my response to Charlton refuting his claim that an MD signed in 19a, and note that his subsequent response offered no contradiction to my point but rather only encouraged further citizen journalism:
January 11, 2010 at 12:53 PM
Mr. Charlton: When I look at the Blaine document, I see no certifying signature by a “Doctor” in field 19a “Signature of Attendant” as you claimed at the time, but only the signature of a person designated “Other” and specifically _not_ designated as MD.
While it is true that an MD wouldn't honestly sign as an attendant if they weren't there, a person that accompanied Grandma to the office of the local registrar to “witness” that a Kenya birth in an unknown hospital had been reported to Grandma might well have signed it.
It might be that the policy and procedures for the local registrar mandated putting the declared city of residence as “Location of Birth” in field 6a for out-of-state births allowed under HI Law 57, and for a “witness” to sign as a second person with “knowledge of the birth” to attest on line 19a “Attendant” in the case of a late, out-of-state birth report.
I don't think that the actual attendant at an out-of-state birth be expected to show up at the local registrar's office in HI to sign a late certificate of birth, but a second person with knowledge of the birth could well have been instructed to sign on that line as “Other.”
I strongly suggest that you, Leo D’Donofrio and John Hemenway take another look at the Blaine BC. I am disappointed to hear that Blaine won’t make the provenance of the original available so far. Again, it maps to the Factcheck COLB and allows Fukino to say that the Location of Birth on the HI vital record says “Honolulu” without mentioning that it also says that the hospital was “Unknown – Kenya, Africa”.
unbelievable he didn't grasp that!
That would be unreasonable to expect the actual out-of-state attendant to appear locally and sign the late cert. So yeah, it's completely possible and reasonable that someone else signed it as other.
EXCELLENT!
Jim, the eligibility issue has never been before SCOTUS. In the cases brought in other courts, the dismissals have been because of standing of the plaintiffs or jurisdiction of the court, and in the one case of Kerchner vs Soetoro, because of a “lack of claim.”
In no court have the substantive issues been tried. This is not to say that progress has not been made. The issue will be before the Federal District Court in Washington, D.C., where it belongs.
Ineligible or not, the guy is a sitting POTUS, and can only be removed by impeachment and conviction. He may be de facto, but he can only be removed, IMHO, by a de jure process. TO do otherwise would only do more damage to the Constitution than this prepostor has already done, and put us squarely in the camp of the “Banana Republics.”
The only persons who MIGHT possibly have standing to sue Obama on eligibility grounds are the only two people who might be able to demonstrate direct harm from Obama being President. Those people are John McCain and Sarah Palin. Neither McCain nor Palin has joined any of the 62 lawshits that have challenged Obama’s eligibility nor have either of them submitted an amicus brief (Friend of the court) in support of any of the lawsuits.
The note about Indonesian citizenship is irrelevant. American-born minors can't renounce their citizenship. Nor can their parents do it for them. If Indonesia believed him to be a citizen, that's their problem. They're a screwed up Mooselimb country, anyway.
I have no formal handwriting analysis training and am certainly not disagreeing with your judgement that the signatures were entered by two different persons. The differences in the 'M's and the '8's are, indeed, very obvious. However, I believe it can also be stated that the two signatures perhaps have areas of "similarity" in their general style,letter slant,letter closure properties, etc. Thus, there at least exists the possibility that both signatures were entered by the same person.
What are the ramifications if the same person, presumably Grandma, did in fact sign in both box 18a (as Madelyn Payne Dunham) and box 19a (as Martin Blaine E-?-n). Would this mean that the document must be declared bogus? I don't think we could conclude this!
It's my general impression that virtually all the major players involved in this entire mess, including Grandma, were very adept at "gaming" the system. We have no way of knowing what really transpired 50 or so years ago when the Blaine COLB application document was submitted. I assume conditions in the government records offices at that time were rather disorganized. Hawaii had only been a state for a few years. Perhaps Grandma couldn't or didn't wish to involve another live person as "witness" in this Kenyan-birth, mixed-race matter. Maybe she chose to just forge the name given in box 19a and submit the document herself to the local registrar! Who could now truthfully say that this could not have happened?
Thus, even if the same person signed on 18a and 19a, I believe the document could still be authentic.
“It's my general impression that virtually all the major players involved in this entire mess, including Grandma, were very adept at “gaming” the system.”
What I like about this document is that if accepted on its face, it doesn't require any conspiracy on the part of Grandma. It says she is reporting a birth in Kenya.
My impression is that this form is not a take-home-and-fill-in form, but rather a form that would be filled in by the local registrar office clerk based on a visit to the local registrar office by the witnesses. The witnesses would give the information, the registrar would type it in in the approved format and language (that couldn't be known to a person who was not a registrar clerk) and then the witnesses would be asked to sign the form in front of the clerk, then the clerk would sign. All three signatures are on the same date, presumably at the same office visit.
The name “Blaine” appearing as the legible middle name of the 19a witness and also as the last name of the attorney who put this on the web raises the possibility of a family link between the two. This further reinforces the possibility that the 19a witness is a real person and not made up by Madelyn.
Professions can run in families and the 19a Blaine middle name witness could be an attorney as well, perhaps Madelyn's family attorney who might actually be the source of the document, but it could just be a friend.
The document, if genuine, was altered on its face with the footnote sometime after 1982, so if the 19a witness who signed the document was the person who gave it to Ohio attorney William E. Blaine, the witness would have had to have obtained a copy of the document subsequent to 1982. Perhaps Madelyn and her attorney or friend of 20 years at this point were involved in trying to clarify BHO II’s legal status at that time, for example to help him get a US passport.
ping...should have copied you!
Let's assume, for the sake of your argument, that he was born in HI.
Do you then, believe that someone born a subject of the British crown, born in HI, is a Natural Born Citizen of the US? That is, someone born with multiple citizenship's?
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