Posted on 01/29/2010 9:49:10 AM PST by FutureRocketMan
“In my humble opinion, Roeder’s was tantamount to the actions of those heroic Czech freedom fighters in 1942 who gunned down the monster Reinhard Heyrich, the head of the dread RHSA, the driving force behind the Holocaust and “The Hangman of Prague.”
If memory serves, those two guys got Heydrich with a grenade tossed into his car (a convertible; top down) as he/his driver drove by. He died a short time later; not at the scene.
Everything about this case is just.....sad. There are no “good guys” here.
Nice talking to you.
Good night - morning, actually, but who's counting ;~)
“So you believe that terrorists should be tried under civil law?”
No, I have never heard of a terrorist being tried under civil law. They are tried under criminal law.
“And under civil law, if you try a person for premeditated murder, you have to address the “premeditated” part too, not just the “murder” part.”
Under criminal law, you only have to prove that the killing was unlawful and intentional.
“The ONLY reason he wasn’t allowed to explain why he did it,...”
Roeder admitted he stalked and shot to death Dr. George Tiller, 67, on May 31 last year as Tiller attended church in Wichita, Kansas. He argued in court his actions were necessary to protect unborn babies.
“Abortions were being done every day,” Roeder testified. “My honest belief was that if I didn’t do something they would continue to die.”
http://www.theprovince.com/news/Kansas+found+guilty+first+degree+murder+abortion+doctor/2499879/story.html
I’ll leave my computer on with this page up and it’ll be the 1st thing I read when I wake.
Hope to chat with you again.
If you claim it took moral courage to commit murder, then you should have that courage yourself, should you not?
It's easy to have "courage" at your keyboard. I still want to know if you have that kind of "courage" in your real life.
But the main point is that what he did was to break the law, and more importantly, to sin against a Holy God.
You have yet to address the real issue here, eleni. My position is clear, morally and otherwise. Yours is muddled by "he did the right thing, but I wouldn't do it."
Please clarify, or stop advocating murder.
No matter how pleased we all are that a baby murderer is gone, it was absolutely morally wrong for him to be murdered.
The problem for some, IMO, is that the post-modern philosophy of situation ethics is interfering. To them, the act of murder is not wrong, if the goal is right.
If we support this act of vigilante murder because we believe the murdered one (in this case, baby killer) deserved it; if we believe we can ignore God's laws because the "end" is a good one, then we are morally bankrupt.
There ARE moral absolutes. And it is morally wrong to murder.
Dumb qusetion, newbie. Aimed at provocation and not serious discussion.
In your previous post you referred to "moral right."
Murder is a moral wrong. By God's law.
“If we support this act of vigilante murder because we believe the murdered one (in this case, baby killer) deserved it; if we believe we can ignore God’s laws because the “end” is a good one, then we are morally bankrupt.
There ARE moral absolutes. And it is morally wrong to murder.”
Would it have been wrong to have had Hitler murdered?
Scripture is very clear, both Old Testament and New. We are not to murder.
Not sure about that logic.
I think this was a justified killing aka a homicide. Different from murder.
Are you glad that Tiller is no longer killing kids?
There is a wide variety of groups within Pro life and they are not all pacifists.
The “state” is what we have such as it is. We believe in its founding tenets even in the face of their dissolution by courts and special interest groups. When the state no longer represents and abides by those founding tenets and reneges on its duries ot its citizens we have the spectacle of millions of dead kids and people taking action against that.
I think we are about at that point in time today.
This correct. Heydrich died later at a hospital in terrific pain from the wounds he received from the grenade. It is related that his last words were, “I’m a superman! Hitler told me so! This can’t be happening!” Hmmm? I guess he wasn’t a “superman.”
I cannot presume to know what is in God’s mind. Nevertheless what Roeder is did is certainly not murder—it is a homicide, justifiable.
What I do know that He is in sympathy with Roeder and NOT with Tiller.
I do know that Satan is roaming this nation and causing suffering for millions and very few of us are willing to stand up for what is right.
We don't have to "presume" in this case, eleni. God has given us His word, and He has commanded us not to murder (yes, it is murder). Jesus even took it a step further and told us that if we hate our brother, it is murder. There are no qualifications, such as, "if your brother has done enough bad things, it's OK to hate or murder him."
There is no Bibilical justification for what Roeder did.
As for Tiller, he is now getting what he deserves......but the punishment is being given by God. You said you can't "presume" what is in God's mind, yet you say you "know" that He is in sympathy with Roeder, even though he committed murder, which is against God's law. You cannot "know" that, eleni.
All you can know is what's in God's word. And according to God's word, what Roeder did is sin.
There is a point at which we may need to violate the laws of this land in civil disobedience, but there is NEVER a situation in which we can violate the laws of God and then try to justify it.
I think you are stretching things when you imply George W Bush is anything but very very pro life. But, having said that and having a chance to think things through a bit more...I would venture to say that those who are in direct action with abortion would be morally guilty. I do not think everyone involved in the process could be considered guilty anymore than they did in regards to the Nazi’s. I don’t think they went after a clerk who really followed procedure but was not directly involved in the act of or instruction to murder. In regards to the morning after pill...I stand with the pharmacist from Morrison, IL who refuses to sell it and is being persecuted by the government for his moral stance. That is a hero also.
“But the main point is that what he did was to break the law, and more importantly, to sin against a Holy God.
You have yet to address the real issue here, eleni. My position is clear, morally and otherwise. Yours is muddled by “he did the right thing, but I wouldn’t do it.”
Please clarify, or stop advocating murder.”
Stop being an idiot...you, most likely would not sacrifice yourself in any way like the hero Roeder did. Most people will not. I would not, but that does not mean that Roeder is not a hero, indeed it is part of what makes him a hero. His unselfish act to save others. You do not understand the morality of the issue, indeed it was probably God’s hand that guided Roeder...the entire clinic was shut down after Roeder brought Tiller to justice. You are badgering people who understand the moral issue without having a clear logical, ethical position from which to blow your horn...
“We don’t have to “presume” in this case, eleni. God has given us His word, and He has commanded us not to murder (yes, it is murder).”
Your post is too long to paste and then answer. Perhaps you can explain how Roeder bringing Tiller to justice was murder in a biblical sense? I believe God’s hand guided Roeder. Abortion is murder ohioWfan, that I think we can agree on. Tiller was a mass murderer on a scale very few monsters have ever reached. The killing stopped the day Tiller was brought to justice and his clinic closed forever. How you can justify calling the man who made this happen a murderer is beyond me...at least morally. Our “law” that provides for killing babies is an illegal law, if that makes sense. Anyway, it is safe to think as you do but it is not right...
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