Posted on 03/20/2010 10:29:14 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
At the House Rules Committee meeting, Democrats desperate to pass their national health care plan are running into the barrier of basic civics. Here is the problem: The Senate has passed its HCR bill. If the House passes the same bill, it goes on to the president; once he signs it, the bill becomes law. But House Democrats, when they vote for the Senate bill using the "Deem & Pass" dodge, also want to simultaneously pass a package of amendments to the law. Except HCR will not, at that point, be law. It will only become law when the president signs it. Congress can amend the law -- it does so all the time -- but can it amend something that isn't law?
Which is where Democrats are tripping up. Passage of their HCR proposal should be very simple: Senate passes it, House passes it, president signs it. But House Democrats are terrified of voting for the unpopular bill, so they hope to pass it by "Deem & Pass," in which they will vote, not for the bill, but for a rule that both deems the Senate bill to have passed and, in the same vote, passes the package of amendments. So House Democrats will have two fig leaves: 1) they didn't vote directly for the Senate bill, and 2) they voted to simultaneously amend -- to "fix" -- the Senate bill.
The problem is the sequence. Can the House vote to amend something that isn't the law, as the Senate bill will not be law before the president's signature? The Rules Committee meeting turned into mass confusion when Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman said, "We're not going to 'deem' the bill passed. We're going to pass the Senate bill I would be against the idea of 'deeming' something -- we either pass it or we don't."
To Republican ears, that sounded as if Waxman was speaking out in support of a direct vote on the Senate plan. "I hope we're making news here," said Republican Rep. Joe Barton. If so, Barton added, "Praise the Lord!" Other Democrats jumped in to say that no, there would not be a direct vote on the Senate bill.
Barton then asked whether there would be some period of time between House passage of the Senate bill and House passage of the HCR amendments. During that period of time, the president would sign the Senate HCR bill into law. For the House to amend the HCR law, Barton said, it has to be law, which means the president has to have signed it. "If he doesn't, it ain't a law," Barton said.
Democratic Rep. Sander Levin jumped in. "We're going to be amending the law," he claimed. Waxman added, "We change current law, and the current law will be the Senate bill once it's voted on in the House."
But it won't be law until the president signs it. Obviously, Democrats are performing such strange contortions because many of their members are scared of voting for a bill that will likely mean defeat for them in November. But their attempts to avoid responsibility have created some very basic problems.
Would that be Matsui from Cal district 5 in Sacramento.?
Isn’t she outside protesting..? : ) rallying the troops!
Freaking Unreal.
Matsui, CA Dem on now giving a children’s lesson and saying absolutely nothing except I like to hear myself speak. She doesn’t have any idea of what she is saying. How did she get elected? It sure wasn’t because of brains as she is displaying she has none.
ROFL!
That chick looks STONED!
They are going to use the money collected for the first four years to fund their stimulus.
Funny how they care so much about those without health insurance (i’m one, i’m laid off), that for four (4) years 4 x 45,000 (according to dummy dems) will die from the dem plan that doesn’t start for 4 years.
“Hurrah for anarchy! This is the happiest moment of my life.”
union activist George Engel, before his hanging.
Is that the “disgraced Judge”, Alcee?
That picture just screams “Larry Sinclair was right.”
I won’t touch that one. ;)
I agree...this soooo does not make any sense!
Keep fighting. The total corruption and sickening dishonesty is coming out. The USA is now like a third world country with these repulsive Dems. Like Kenya or something.
Heehee...
“To me, a vote of yes is grounds for Impeachment.”
Also each and every Congressman voting for this measure should be tried for treason.
don’t be dense. The scheduled official non official “deem to pass” vote is tomorrow. These are just preliminary counts. A poll if you will. no one will know for sure if anything went “afoul” until the votes are all cast tomorrow.
I’m pretty sure the votes are going to be in favor of passing the deem to pass.
At present, people are just negotiating and trying to get an idea if the DNC will be ok with them *not* voting for it. I’m sure they’ve already all decided they will pass it, it’s just a matter of negotiating who will be allowed to vote against it and who will get what for voting in favor of the official unofficial deeming it to pass vote.
As far as the Constitution goes, Congress may have a right to pass things under the general welfare clause, BUT not if they violate any other clauses. (9th Amendment) The enumeration of certain rights in the Constitution shall not be construed to deny of disparage other retained by the people. That leads to the following conflicts:
Requiring one to “purchase” something under penalty of law and threat of deadly force, as a condition of lawful citizenship is not delegated to the federal government, and therefore is reserved to the states or the people (10th Amendment) and (5th Amendment): No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law: nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. - (forcing one to part with property aka premium cost or penalty tax - without a court hearing violates the due process clause.)
A national insurance program is a pool of private money being spread across the public for coverage of some of the costs. Those monies would be used to cover those that cannot afford insurance. Non-participation would be illegal and enforceable through the IRS - based on income tax reports. This violates the 5th Amendment clause against self incrimination and the 5th amendment clauses against being forced to be a witness against oneself. (Form 1040 is a document signed under oath and penalty of law.) Also it violates the last clause of the 5th Amendment in that the private property (insurance premiums or penalty taxes) are taken for public use without just compensation. An insurance policy in lieu of legal tender is not just compensation.
They ARE going to ram this blatant act of Tyranny down our throats. Non-compliance IS an option. Full-scale rebellion in DC is another. If they no longer fear being voted out, then the time for drastic action is upon us.
Think about all of the things they tried to accuse Republicans of doing when they were the majority. Culture of corruption, destroying the constitution and all of that. I don’t think they can ever do that again. Because there is now concrete proof that it is the liberal party that is trying to destroy it all.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.