Posted on 03/20/2010 10:29:14 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
At the House Rules Committee meeting, Democrats desperate to pass their national health care plan are running into the barrier of basic civics. Here is the problem: The Senate has passed its HCR bill. If the House passes the same bill, it goes on to the president; once he signs it, the bill becomes law. But House Democrats, when they vote for the Senate bill using the "Deem & Pass" dodge, also want to simultaneously pass a package of amendments to the law. Except HCR will not, at that point, be law. It will only become law when the president signs it. Congress can amend the law -- it does so all the time -- but can it amend something that isn't law?
Which is where Democrats are tripping up. Passage of their HCR proposal should be very simple: Senate passes it, House passes it, president signs it. But House Democrats are terrified of voting for the unpopular bill, so they hope to pass it by "Deem & Pass," in which they will vote, not for the bill, but for a rule that both deems the Senate bill to have passed and, in the same vote, passes the package of amendments. So House Democrats will have two fig leaves: 1) they didn't vote directly for the Senate bill, and 2) they voted to simultaneously amend -- to "fix" -- the Senate bill.
The problem is the sequence. Can the House vote to amend something that isn't the law, as the Senate bill will not be law before the president's signature? The Rules Committee meeting turned into mass confusion when Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman said, "We're not going to 'deem' the bill passed. We're going to pass the Senate bill…I would be against the idea of 'deeming' something -- we either pass it or we don't."
To Republican ears, that sounded as if Waxman was speaking out in support of a direct vote on the Senate plan. "I hope we're making news here," said Republican Rep. Joe Barton. If so, Barton added, "Praise the Lord!" Other Democrats jumped in to say that no, there would not be a direct vote on the Senate bill.
Barton then asked whether there would be some period of time between House passage of the Senate bill and House passage of the HCR amendments. During that period of time, the president would sign the Senate HCR bill into law. For the House to amend the HCR law, Barton said, it has to be law, which means the president has to have signed it. "If he doesn't, it ain't a law," Barton said.
Democratic Rep. Sander Levin jumped in. "We're going to be amending the law," he claimed. Waxman added, "We change current law, and the current law will be the Senate bill once it's voted on in the House."
But it won't be law until the president signs it. Obviously, Democrats are performing such strange contortions because many of their members are scared of voting for a bill that will likely mean defeat for them in November. But their attempts to avoid responsibility have created some very basic problems.
the dems are certainly, brazenly transparent.
Even the Administration’s Chief Actuary at HHS cannot provide cost analysis of latest Democrat health spending bill before the vote
Chief Actuary: ‘I regret that my staff and I will not be able to prepare our analysis within this very tight time frame, due to the complexity of the legislation.’
WASHINGTON, DC – The Obama administration’s chief actuary at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) notified Republican leaders Saturday that the “very tight time frame” and “complexity” of the Democrats’ health spending bill would prevent them from fully analyzing the costs and efficacy of the bill before the House voted on the legislation. The letter was in response to a request from House and Senate Republicans.
I bet he is, it makes me wonder what his other hand is doing while we're all distracted watching this one.
Drier calling for open debate on the floor with the vote.....
Obongo and his thugs see enormous amount of money going into insurance companies and the government wants a piece of the pie. So if they can sell insurance just look at all the money they can embezzle.
We are never going to be able to relax again. No matter who is in, and if we ever get out of this predicament, we will never, ever, ever, relax. We will have a keep a hawk's eye on them and stay in contact and follow every freaking move they make.
Mark Levin said he would file suit immediately.
Even if the House claims it is passed, it is time citizens continue to call the House and Senate on Monday.
But right now it sounds like the Dems are really confused.
I would not trust any numbers that the Dems have for passing the Bill.
There may be Dems who just decide to leave town tonight and not vote...
It has been said the greatest volume of sheer brain power in one place occurred when Jefferson dined alone. — John Kennedy
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. — Thomas Jefferson
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. — Thomas Jefferson
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. — Thomas Jefferson
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. — Thomas Jefferson
When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe. — Thomas Jefferson
Unless Michelle is a member of the Rules Committee, she had better be “absent”. LOL
Why do they HATE America so much that they wish to destroy the very country that GAVE them OPPORTUNITY?
I have never seen anything like this, only in third-world countries.
If the Rebpubs had tried anything like this, they would have been hammered. When repubs had control, they offered “power sharing” to the Dems. So much for my Sen. McCain’s across the aisle BS.
They can’t do reconciliation unless they can prove that the bill reduces deficit spending. That’s what the CBO is needed for. Those numbers must prove reduction in deficit spending.
Of course, this assumes they are not trying to bypass reconciliation. It’s getting quite confusing and very darn near treason, imo.
She’s at the rally today, isn’t she?
12,500 new IRS employees. They are the nasty, most unconstitutional collection agency ever known. They can zero out your bank account, attach your wages and confiscate (sp) your property without due process. Of course they are part of the health care bill...penalties are part of the package for those of us that “Will ...Not Comply”. Torches and Pitch Forks will march on the White House.
Good point, I shouldn’t have said last line of defense.
Our last line would be judicial action in the event of deem and pass. But I am curious about the intermediate step regarding Senate passage of the fixes (reconciliation).
To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas that he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical...Thomas Jefferson
Likewise, my Congressman represents my area and the Texas Medical Center, and he is a staunch conservative.
I hope they don’t stop, 24/7.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OGM0ZjlhMDRkMzBmM2ZhMmY4MmExOTNhMWM5NDUyMTk=
Yes, Democratic Rep. Alcee Hastings (Fla.) just said this in the most powerful committee of the United States House of Representatives. The people’s house:
“There ain’t no rules here, we’re trying to accomplish something. . . .All this talk about rules. . . .When the deal goes down . . . we make ‘em up as we go along.”
Gah!!!!! Who’s the idiot from California trying to play the ‘emotional’ card???? Ugh!
So do I.
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