Posted on 05/30/2010 12:08:30 AM PDT by Nachum
Regulations that came into effect in New Zealand over the weekend forbid kosher ritual slaughter (shechita). According to the new regulations, animals must now be unconscious before being slaughtered, invalidating them for kosher slaughter.
(Excerpt) Read more at israelnationalnews.com ...
What about halaal?
Who told you that?
The Maori have never been a ‘special class’, or an enslaved people. Theyve always dealt on equal terms with white settlers, in accordance with the legal treaty of Waitangi.
Think, before you perform the foot in mouth maneouver.
THeres nothing wrong with this any way. Why should an animal be made to suffer more than necessary? Kosher and Halaal are practices from much more barbaric times. Surely rabbinical law can assess whether consciousness of the animal is required today, when an induced unconsiousness does not mean illness?
Completely agree with you regarding slaughter.
Necessary for what?
O mortals, do not pollute your bodies with a food so impious! You have the fruits of the earth, you have apples, bending down the branches with their weight, and grapes swelling to ripeness on the vines;
- Ovid, The discourse of Pythagoras
What barbarian age do we live in then? When flesh is manufactured as a commodity with no thought whatsoever for the life that produces it? Your arbitrary, self-serving, and naive condemnation of ritual slaughter is the grossest hyprocrisy.
"Now it's your turn, now it's your turn to die!" - the ketchup and the mustard to Hamburger Joe, in Zap Comix
I assume your white guilt leftists excuse it and enable it, as ours do with our minority populations, on that last?
BARBARIC...
JEWS ARE BARBARIC???
How about slaughtering their own children for jihad sake...
or beating their daughters to death for wanting an education?
Im actually a vegetarian, so I dont think Im being as hypocritical as you think.
And I dont think my “Condemnation” is arbitrary. It has a point to it.
At some point, it may have been necessary for the animal to be awake, and alive, for the rabbi to be assured that it is healthy. But today, they can be assured of that fact without having it be awake. Why make the animal go through all this, having its throat slit, and bleeding to death?
Why can the rabbi/mullah not take it on principle that the animal is fine? Can the ritual not change with the times?
Just like our Constitution, huh?
Do you really think God should change His mind about things? If you are not a theist, it is a natural reaction. A Christian would be hypocritical to expect a rabbi to subvert the Word of God.
The major problems with the world can be attributed to those that have just "gone along with the times..."
The ritual act is the same whether it is on New Zealand's soil or the wasteland desert of the Middle East.
The same same applies to many other urges that might be destructive of good health,family life, and tribal cohesiveness.
Death as a penalty,of necessity administered by the earthly leaders, permanently removes rulebreakers and terifies the rest into submission.Also when wanting to take better land away from the people living there,telling the tribe God wants you to kill all those people except for the virgin girls just might be a plan.
It is written that God created man in His own image;wherefore one might conjecture that traits like curiosity and questioning must be part of His nature.
Yeah, good reasoning (not). My take on your group is that the leader is probably just as ignorant!
Nice try, but no banana...
Your post is spoken like a true atheist...
Pft. Ridiculous straw man argument. Where did I say Jews are barbaric? I said that it was a practice from a more barbaric TIME.
Misreading things doesnt make your argument stronger.
Wow. Way to overreact.
My saying that it logically shouldnt be a problem for a rabbi if you knock an animal out before performing the kosher ritual, is now somehow equatable to:
1. Changing the constitution
2. Allowing abortion
3. Tolerating flagrant homosexual morals
Way to fly off the handle, pal. Hyperbole and overreaction are on the rise, I see. Oh, and for the record, I dont think any of the above three are Ok.
And its “the word of god” that you should keep an animal awake as you slit its throat? Please. Get a grip.
Speaking of hyperbole, your crap is piled high!
The idea that god changes with the times is your own construct. I have not suggested it anywhere.
Your comments are obviously based on ignorance. Let me attempt to correct that.
Shechitah (kosher slaughter) is the way that Jews have been instructed by G-d to humanely kill food animals. It is not for us to decide that G-d’s laws are “outdated” and up for “modernization” by mortal Man.
Shechitah is NOT the “slitting of the throat” that you ignorantly suggest, but a simultaneous severing of the trachea, esophagus, carotid arteries, and jugular vein with a super-sharp special knife which has been minutely inspected just before the slaughter. The motion of the knife must be in one smooth, continuous motion and results in an actual partial decapitation. The animal collapses unconscious within seconds. Veterinarian Dr. Temple Grandin, who has revolutionized the humane slaughter of animals, has stated that shechitah, properly done, is completely humane. Also, Dr. Dukes of the Cornell University School of Veterinary Medicine has stated that the animal is unconscious within seconds of the incision.
Rendering an animal unconscious by use of electric stunners or captive bolt pistols has a high failure rate and often results in the poor animal having to be shot or stunned multiple times.
Historically, countries which have banned shechitah have done so as part of a wave of anti-Semitism. Nazi Germany and Italy both, for example, banned shechitah. It was subsequently reinstated after WWII. Other countries with a strong anti-Semitic influence have also been banning shechitah (such as Switzerland) as an anti-Jewish measure.
So, this is less of a “let’s be humane to animals” issue than it is “let’s stick it to the Jews” issue, and observant Jews are NOT fooled. We’ve seen this before.
looks like NZ wants to be judenrein
Unfortunately.
I’m not a Kiwi. I’ve only been to NZ.
There are a lot of parallels.
However, it seems that Kiwis speak much more frankly about it.
“Kosher and Halaal are practices from much more barbaric times.”
Okay parse your words, “Kosher practices” are from “barbaric times”, not barbaric people.
Orthodox Jews take seriously “the word of God”, (and a few other groups think it no joke either).
The Kosher rule is NO DRUGS IN THE MEAT, which could not be helped if the animal was given a painkiller.
Also, (the sacrifice done correctly), the animal feels no more than the injection you advocate.
If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.
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I'm sure the cattle are pleased. I'm sorry to hear hunting and fishing have been banned in New Zealand.
Excellent question, one which has been delved into by the scientific community. Kosher slaughter results in Unconsciousness in 3 to 4 seconds, and is generally accepted as equally humane conpared to stunning or bolts, probably mor mumane considering the "error" rate of those procedures.
Like sex? Which is fine when one is conscious. Like Kosher slaughter, some, barbaric throwbacks, would say better conscious.
All Jews in New Zealand should become vegetarians if the want to observe Kashrut.
I really can’t tell which of those photos frightens me most!
‘the’ should be ‘they’ of course...
Thanks for a brief, coherent description of the process
You are quite welcome. It’s a very complicated issue, and not understandable by “simple logic”. Many of the Torah’s mandates are simply “do this the way I tell you to do it”, no questions asked types of edicts. I hate to see Jewish observant practices made a hash of by people who don’t know what they are talking about, and then see negativity result from it. I am a real animal lover, have been since I was a toddler, and it would bother me to the point of being a vegetarian if I thought that shechitah was inhumane. As it is, I haven’t eaten any red meat for years.
Of course you won't dare ban halaal methods.
And if you had any understanding of the historical context about which you speak, you'd understand that shechitah was a revolutionary advance in the humane treatment of animals in those barbaric times.
Way back when in ancient times, both the evening's food and entertainment were sometimes provided by a partially dismembered animal, the limbs of which were roasted and eaten as the suffering creature limped around on what remained.
The Jews were undoubtedly considered rather radical and odd back then, insisting on the animal actually being not only dead, but also killed quickly, and also drained of all life-giving blood before being cooked and eaten. What a concept!
You want to talk about barbaric? Google "sannakji." The notion that these times are somehow "less" barbaric is questionable.
Jews have been conscious of humane treatment of food animals for thousands of years, but it hasn't caught on as widely as it should throughout humanity. Perhaps it's because everyone's so busy slandering Jews about Christian baby blood matzah and about shechitah, they continue to miss the point.
Its not up to me to ban anything. I think halaal and kosher are similar, so putting into place a regulation which makes the one untenable, probably does so for the other as well. Good thing NZ doesnt have too many mooses.
Gosh. Understand what I am saying. For the time, Im sure it was an advance. But the times have moved on.
The first sensible response Ive heard in the last four days. If there is scientific evidence to show that it is more (or equally) humane to kill an animal this way, than to knock it out, then fine. Otherwise, why not adapt, at least seek a rabbinical opinion?
Have you not heard "in the land of the blind,the one-eyed man is king"?
Moved on to what? Either penetrating-bolt stunners which mash brain matter into the animal's blood stream, or non-penetrating stunners which are not always successful at rendering the animal totally and irreversably unconscious?
Is it more or less humane to have sudden, severe, permanent loss of blood to the brain of the animal resulting in swift, permanent unconsciousness within about two seconds (according to the man who literally wrote the book on the physiology of domestic animals: Professor H. H. Dukes of Cornell University's College of Veterinary Medicine), or an captive-bolt or electric stun which can result in the animal regaining consciousness halfway through the slaughter?
The fact is that killing animals for food is anathema to some people regardless of how the killing is done. It's easier for PETA and their fellow travelers to whip up public furor against Jews, or against rich people and their foie gras, than against meat-eating in general, but it still supports the openly-stated PETA goal of "total animal liberation" and a ban on all meat-eating.
First they came for the Jews...
Lists of rules and the underlying reasons for those rules are usually two seperate but related documents and discussions.
I wonder if this NZ ban isn't partly instigated by companies that just don't want to pay a rabbi's wages?
They are, in fact, rather huge documents. See the Talmud, or the Mishneh Torah by Maimonedes.
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