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Shechita Banned in New Zealand (kosher slaughter)
inn ^ | 5/30/10 | staff

Posted on 05/30/2010 12:08:30 AM PDT by Nachum

Regulations that came into effect in New Zealand over the weekend forbid kosher ritual slaughter (shechita). According to the new regulations, animals must now be unconscious before being slaughtered, invalidating them for kosher slaughter.

(Excerpt) Read more at israelnationalnews.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antisemitism; banned; jewish; kosher; new; shechita; zealand

1 posted on 05/30/2010 12:08:31 AM PDT by Nachum
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To: Nachum

What about halaal?


2 posted on 05/30/2010 12:09:37 AM PDT by James C. Bennett
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To: Nachum
But the Māori are still permitted to practice human sacrifice and cannibalism, because they're a protected class in NZ, ya know...
3 posted on 05/30/2010 12:12:43 AM PDT by counterpunch (GOP: Government's Other Party)
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To: counterpunch

Who told you that?

The Maori have never been a ‘special class’, or an enslaved people. Theyve always dealt on equal terms with white settlers, in accordance with the legal treaty of Waitangi.

Think, before you perform the foot in mouth maneouver.

THeres nothing wrong with this any way. Why should an animal be made to suffer more than necessary? Kosher and Halaal are practices from much more barbaric times. Surely rabbinical law can assess whether consciousness of the animal is required today, when an induced unconsiousness does not mean illness?


4 posted on 05/30/2010 12:24:18 AM PDT by ketelone
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To: counterpunch
But the Māori are still permitted to practice human sacrifice and cannibalism

They are?
5 posted on 05/30/2010 12:31:35 AM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: ketelone

Completely agree with you regarding slaughter.


6 posted on 05/30/2010 12:52:46 AM PDT by James C. Bennett
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To: ketelone
Why should an animal be made to suffer more than necessary? Kosher and Halaal are practices from much more barbaric times.

Necessary for what?

O mortals, do not pollute your bodies with a food so impious! You have the fruits of the earth, you have apples, bending down the branches with their weight, and grapes swelling to ripeness on the vines;

- Ovid, The discourse of Pythagoras

What barbarian age do we live in then? When flesh is manufactured as a commodity with no thought whatsoever for the life that produces it? Your arbitrary, self-serving, and naive condemnation of ritual slaughter is the grossest hyprocrisy.

"Now it's your turn, now it's your turn to die!" - the ketchup and the mustard to Hamburger Joe, in Zap Comix

7 posted on 05/30/2010 1:19:21 AM PDT by dr_lew
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To: dr_lew
"Clams got scruples!"....B.C. comic strip
8 posted on 05/30/2010 2:19:55 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus)
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To: ketelone
It's a bit of a joke ment to tweak Māori sensitivities. In NZ it is considered politically incorrect to bring up the Māori history of canabalism. In fact, they try to deny it, despite ample historical evidence. But don't be fooled. There is a lot of controvery over the Treaty of Waitangi. I've been to the treaty grounds. I've seen the documents. What the Māori chiefs signed, and what the English version said are quite a bit different on important points of Māori sovereignty. And the Māori want to nullify the treaty and renegotiate in their own favor, for their part. There is a wide spread feeling among the white population that the Māori get special treatment and feel entitled and prefer to live off of special government handouts than to work. Most of the crime is committed by the Māori youths, and NZ has a growing Problem in Aukland and Wellington of Māori gangs.
9 posted on 05/30/2010 3:35:22 AM PDT by counterpunch (GOP: Government's Other Party)
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To: counterpunch

I assume your white guilt leftists excuse it and enable it, as ours do with our minority populations, on that last?


10 posted on 05/30/2010 3:47:49 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (No Representation without Taxation!)
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To: ketelone

BARBARIC...

JEWS ARE BARBARIC???

How about slaughtering their own children for jihad sake...

or beating their daughters to death for wanting an education?


11 posted on 05/30/2010 4:54:48 AM PDT by Mrs.Z
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To: dr_lew

Im actually a vegetarian, so I dont think Im being as hypocritical as you think.

And I dont think my “Condemnation” is arbitrary. It has a point to it.

At some point, it may have been necessary for the animal to be awake, and alive, for the rabbi to be assured that it is healthy. But today, they can be assured of that fact without having it be awake. Why make the animal go through all this, having its throat slit, and bleeding to death?

Why can the rabbi/mullah not take it on principle that the animal is fine? Can the ritual not change with the times?


12 posted on 05/30/2010 4:57:55 AM PDT by ketelone
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To: ketelone
Can the ritual not change with the times?

Just like our Constitution, huh?

Do you really think God should change His mind about things? If you are not a theist, it is a natural reaction. A Christian would be hypocritical to expect a rabbi to subvert the Word of God.

The major problems with the world can be attributed to those that have just "gone along with the times..."


13 posted on 05/30/2010 5:09:25 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( Ridicule is the best test of truth. - Philip Dormer Shanhope, Lord Chesterfield)
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To: James C. Bennett
Seems to me there are livestock transporting ships that take live ship to the Middle East for slaughter.
Does it not trouble these sensitive folks about the ultimate of their livestock?

The ritual act is the same whether it is on New Zealand's soil or the wasteland desert of the Middle East.

14 posted on 05/30/2010 5:26:56 AM PDT by pointsal
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To: WVKayaker
It has occurred to me that if one is the leader of a bunch of ignorant,superstitious desert tribesmen who can't understand why they should not eat certain foods ,the simple thing is to tell them that God forbids it.

The same same applies to many other urges that might be destructive of good health,family life, and tribal cohesiveness.

Death as a penalty,of necessity administered by the earthly leaders, permanently removes rulebreakers and terifies the rest into submission.Also when wanting to take better land away from the people living there,telling the tribe God wants you to kill all those people except for the virgin girls just might be a plan.

It is written that God created man in His own image;wherefore one might conjecture that traits like curiosity and questioning must be part of His nature.

15 posted on 05/30/2010 5:43:25 AM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a credit card?)
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To: hoosierham
It has occurred to me that if one is the leader of a bunch of ignorant,superstitious desert tribesmen who can't understand why they should not eat certain foods ,the simple thing is to tell them that God forbids it.

Yeah, good reasoning (not). My take on your group is that the leader is probably just as ignorant!

Nice try, but no banana...

Your post is spoken like a true atheist...


16 posted on 05/30/2010 6:10:29 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( Ridicule is the best test of truth. - Philip Dormer Shanhope, Lord Chesterfield)
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To: WVKayaker; hoosierham
It has occurred to me that if one is the leader of a bunch of ignorant,superstitious desert tribesmen who can't understand why they should not eat certain foods ,the simple thing is to tell them that God forbids it.

You beg more questions than you answer.
17 posted on 05/30/2010 6:14:09 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Mrs.Z

Pft. Ridiculous straw man argument. Where did I say Jews are barbaric? I said that it was a practice from a more barbaric TIME.

Misreading things doesnt make your argument stronger.


18 posted on 05/30/2010 9:11:04 AM PDT by ketelone
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To: WVKayaker

Wow. Way to overreact.

My saying that it logically shouldnt be a problem for a rabbi if you knock an animal out before performing the kosher ritual, is now somehow equatable to:

1. Changing the constitution

2. Allowing abortion

3. Tolerating flagrant homosexual morals

Way to fly off the handle, pal. Hyperbole and overreaction are on the rise, I see. Oh, and for the record, I dont think any of the above three are Ok.

And its “the word of god” that you should keep an animal awake as you slit its throat? Please. Get a grip.


19 posted on 05/30/2010 9:14:14 AM PDT by ketelone
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To: ketelone
I believe that if you review my post to you, it was concerning the idea that God is changing "with the times". It was in response to your posit that a tribe adopted a custom...

Speaking of hyperbole, your crap is piled high!

20 posted on 05/30/2010 9:27:01 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( Ridicule is the best test of truth. - Philip Dormer Shanhope, Lord Chesterfield)
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To: WVKayaker

The idea that god changes with the times is your own construct. I have not suggested it anywhere.


21 posted on 05/30/2010 10:42:08 AM PDT by ketelone
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To: ketelone

Your comments are obviously based on ignorance. Let me attempt to correct that.

Shechitah (kosher slaughter) is the way that Jews have been instructed by G-d to humanely kill food animals. It is not for us to decide that G-d’s laws are “outdated” and up for “modernization” by mortal Man.

Shechitah is NOT the “slitting of the throat” that you ignorantly suggest, but a simultaneous severing of the trachea, esophagus, carotid arteries, and jugular vein with a super-sharp special knife which has been minutely inspected just before the slaughter. The motion of the knife must be in one smooth, continuous motion and results in an actual partial decapitation. The animal collapses unconscious within seconds. Veterinarian Dr. Temple Grandin, who has revolutionized the humane slaughter of animals, has stated that shechitah, properly done, is completely humane. Also, Dr. Dukes of the Cornell University School of Veterinary Medicine has stated that the animal is unconscious within seconds of the incision.

Rendering an animal unconscious by use of electric stunners or captive bolt pistols has a high failure rate and often results in the poor animal having to be shot or stunned multiple times.

Historically, countries which have banned shechitah have done so as part of a wave of anti-Semitism. Nazi Germany and Italy both, for example, banned shechitah. It was subsequently reinstated after WWII. Other countries with a strong anti-Semitic influence have also been banning shechitah (such as Switzerland) as an anti-Jewish measure.

So, this is less of a “let’s be humane to animals” issue than it is “let’s stick it to the Jews” issue, and observant Jews are NOT fooled. We’ve seen this before.


22 posted on 05/30/2010 11:15:29 AM PDT by EinNYC
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To: Nachum

looks like NZ wants to be judenrein


23 posted on 05/30/2010 11:29:43 AM PDT by ari-freedom
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To: ari-freedom

Unfortunately.


24 posted on 05/30/2010 11:34:05 AM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: FreedomPoster

I’m not a Kiwi. I’ve only been to NZ.
There are a lot of parallels.
However, it seems that Kiwis speak much more frankly about it.


25 posted on 05/30/2010 1:16:53 PM PDT by counterpunch (GOP: Government's Other Party)
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To: ketelone

“Kosher and Halaal are practices from much more barbaric times.”

Okay parse your words, “Kosher practices” are from “barbaric times”, not barbaric people.

Orthodox Jews take seriously “the word of God”, (and a few other groups think it no joke either).

The Kosher rule is NO DRUGS IN THE MEAT, which could not be helped if the animal was given a painkiller.

Also, (the sacrifice done correctly), the animal feels no more than the injection you advocate.


26 posted on 05/30/2010 2:30:50 PM PDT by Mrs.Z
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

I'm sure the cattle are pleased. I'm sorry to hear hunting and fishing have been banned in New Zealand.

27 posted on 05/31/2010 1:28:56 PM PDT by SJackson (Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel and it must remain undivided, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: ketelone
THeres nothing wrong with this any way. Why should an animal be made to suffer more than necessary?

Excellent question, one which has been delved into by the scientific community. Kosher slaughter results in Unconsciousness in 3 to 4 seconds, and is generally accepted as equally humane conpared to stunning or bolts, probably mor mumane considering the "error" rate of those procedures.

28 posted on 05/31/2010 1:38:06 PM PDT by SJackson (Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel and it must remain undivided, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: Mrs.Z; ketelone
“Kosher and Halaal are practices from much more barbaric times.”

Like sex? Which is fine when one is conscious. Like Kosher slaughter, some, barbaric throwbacks, would say better conscious.

29 posted on 05/31/2010 1:39:57 PM PDT by SJackson (Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel and it must remain undivided, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: ketelone

All Jews in New Zealand should become vegetarians if the want to observe Kashrut.


30 posted on 05/31/2010 1:43:33 PM PDT by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: WVKayaker

I really can’t tell which of those photos frightens me most!


31 posted on 05/31/2010 1:46:10 PM PDT by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: nolongerademocrat

‘the’ should be ‘they’ of course...


32 posted on 05/31/2010 1:51:33 PM PDT by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: EinNYC

Thanks for a brief, coherent description of the process


33 posted on 05/31/2010 2:19:49 PM PDT by SJackson (Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel and it must remain undivided, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: SJackson

You are quite welcome. It’s a very complicated issue, and not understandable by “simple logic”. Many of the Torah’s mandates are simply “do this the way I tell you to do it”, no questions asked types of edicts. I hate to see Jewish observant practices made a hash of by people who don’t know what they are talking about, and then see negativity result from it. I am a real animal lover, have been since I was a toddler, and it would bother me to the point of being a vegetarian if I thought that shechitah was inhumane. As it is, I haven’t eaten any red meat for years.


34 posted on 05/31/2010 7:03:29 PM PDT by EinNYC
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To: ketelone
I guess that whole Freedom of Religion thing is pretty much optional in NZ.

Of course you won't dare ban halaal methods.

35 posted on 05/31/2010 7:06:30 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: ketelone
Pft. Ridiculous straw man argument. Where did I say Jews are barbaric? I said that it was a practice from a more barbaric TIME.

And if you had any understanding of the historical context about which you speak, you'd understand that shechitah was a revolutionary advance in the humane treatment of animals in those barbaric times.

Way back when in ancient times, both the evening's food and entertainment were sometimes provided by a partially dismembered animal, the limbs of which were roasted and eaten as the suffering creature limped around on what remained.

The Jews were undoubtedly considered rather radical and odd back then, insisting on the animal actually being not only dead, but also killed quickly, and also drained of all life-giving blood before being cooked and eaten. What a concept!

You want to talk about barbaric? Google "sannakji." The notion that these times are somehow "less" barbaric is questionable.

Jews have been conscious of humane treatment of food animals for thousands of years, but it hasn't caught on as widely as it should throughout humanity. Perhaps it's because everyone's so busy slandering Jews about Christian baby blood matzah and about shechitah, they continue to miss the point.

36 posted on 05/31/2010 7:15:23 PM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Lurker

Its not up to me to ban anything. I think halaal and kosher are similar, so putting into place a regulation which makes the one untenable, probably does so for the other as well. Good thing NZ doesnt have too many mooses.


37 posted on 05/31/2010 8:32:55 PM PDT by ketelone
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To: mvpel

Gosh. Understand what I am saying. For the time, Im sure it was an advance. But the times have moved on.


38 posted on 05/31/2010 8:33:40 PM PDT by ketelone
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To: SJackson

The first sensible response Ive heard in the last four days. If there is scientific evidence to show that it is more (or equally) humane to kill an animal this way, than to knock it out, then fine. Otherwise, why not adapt, at least seek a rabbinical opinion?


39 posted on 05/31/2010 8:35:05 PM PDT by ketelone
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To: WVKayaker
Maybe not a true atheist but a person who can see that all too many men claim to speak for ,or in place of God,so that they might control other people.

Have you not heard "in the land of the blind,the one-eyed man is king"?

40 posted on 05/31/2010 10:31:01 PM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a credit card?)
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To: ketelone
Gosh. Understand what I am saying. For the time, Im sure it was an advance. But the times have moved on.

Moved on to what? Either penetrating-bolt stunners which mash brain matter into the animal's blood stream, or non-penetrating stunners which are not always successful at rendering the animal totally and irreversably unconscious?

Is it more or less humane to have sudden, severe, permanent loss of blood to the brain of the animal resulting in swift, permanent unconsciousness within about two seconds (according to the man who literally wrote the book on the physiology of domestic animals: Professor H. H. Dukes of Cornell University's College of Veterinary Medicine), or an captive-bolt or electric stun which can result in the animal regaining consciousness halfway through the slaughter?

The fact is that killing animals for food is anathema to some people regardless of how the killing is done. It's easier for PETA and their fellow travelers to whip up public furor against Jews, or against rich people and their foie gras, than against meat-eating in general, but it still supports the openly-stated PETA goal of "total animal liberation" and a ban on all meat-eating.

First they came for the Jews...

41 posted on 06/01/2010 1:19:15 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: EinNYC
It seems to me that many of the Jewish commandments,practices,observances, promote good phyical and mental health and that having a full explanation of the reasons and processes for each commandment would make a huge document.

Lists of rules and the underlying reasons for those rules are usually two seperate but related documents and discussions.

I wonder if this NZ ban isn't partly instigated by companies that just don't want to pay a rabbi's wages?

42 posted on 06/01/2010 7:25:23 AM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a credit card?)
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To: hoosierham
...having a full explanation of the reasons and processes for each commandment would make a huge document.

They are, in fact, rather huge documents. See the Talmud, or the Mishneh Torah by Maimonedes.

43 posted on 06/02/2010 3:00:01 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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