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Congress Overturns Ban of Gays Serving Openly, Sends Bill to Obama's Desk
Fox News ^ | Dec. 18, 2010

Posted on 12/18/2010 12:48:49 PM PST by Jess Kitting

Edited on 12/18/2010 1:10:23 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

WASHINGTON -- In a landmark vote, the Senate on Saturday ended the Clinton-era ban on gays serving openly in the military, marking a major triumph for President Obama, liberals and the gay community.

The final vote to end the Pentagon's 1993 "don't ask, don't tell" policy was 65-31, drawing support from eight Republicans.

The bill now goes to the White House for Obama's signature. He is expected to sign the bill into law next week, a senior White House aide told Fox News.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: commies; dadt; dontaskdonttell; georgevoinovich; homosexualagenda; johnensign; lisamurkowski; markkirk; mentaldisorder; olympiasnowe; pushbacksabitch; richardburr; scottbrown; sexpervertsrejoice; susancollins; youandwhatfagarmy
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To: Walts Ice Pick

Whoops!


351 posted on 12/18/2010 5:47:19 PM PST by trumandogz
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To: mlizzy

I will have both the Rosary AND the the steel blade of a broad sword. The time is upon us to deal with our corrupt leaders in the most definite of terms.

I would have no remorse at cleaving such scoundrels straight through to the marrow. Such end is fitting to their kind, and one which they fully deserve.

The unflinching stroke of the Knight’s broad sword is the only true justice for these reprobate creatures.

Pray for their souls if you choose... I rather them dead, and the sooner the better.


352 posted on 12/18/2010 5:48:54 PM PST by TCH (DON'T BE AN "O-HOLE"! ... DEMAND YOUR STATE ENACT ITS SOVEREIGNTY !When a majority of the American)
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To: TCH

And you would be happy when the general’s neice takes a liking to your home and your military dictator sents troops to evict you?


353 posted on 12/18/2010 5:49:27 PM PST by trumandogz
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To: Jet Jaguar
Huge Pandora’s box has just opened.

I hope all the non-leftist Obama-Congressional RAT voters out there who said "What harm could he do, Clinton didn't do much damage in 2-4 years" are happy with themselves.

The destructive actions of these vermin in 2 years has been massive.

Yes, we have "stopped" them with last November's vote, but

The RATS are burning down the house like Saddam Hussein did the oil fields on their way out.

354 posted on 12/18/2010 5:58:39 PM PST by SteamShovel (Beware the RINO-VIRUS...It will kill the TEA Party movement.)
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To: SteamShovel
I forgot to put blame on the RINOs too.
355 posted on 12/18/2010 6:00:10 PM PST by SteamShovel (Beware the RINO-VIRUS...It will kill the TEA Party movement.)
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To: Jess Kitting

Give it 2-3 years - they will have PINK TANKS!!! Believe it! Wait till the Army has Gay Pride day!


356 posted on 12/18/2010 6:13:06 PM PST by 2harddrive
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To: Jess Kitting

The obama/gates legacy. DISGRACEFUL.


357 posted on 12/18/2010 6:13:28 PM PST by jersey117
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To: 1010RD

“...progressives will have destroyed America.”

Then we need to get serious, and destroy the progressives... and I DO mean literally.

Life or Death struggle: Us or them. Do you wish to see your country die? No? Then FORGET cooperation, FORGET reformation, FORGET civility. It is time to take up the sword and lop off heads. If you have not the stomach for that, then suffer the loss of all you hold sacred... including the future of your children.


358 posted on 12/18/2010 6:15:04 PM PST by TCH (DON'T BE AN "O-HOLE"! ... DEMAND YOUR STATE ENACT ITS SOVEREIGNTY !When a majority of the American)
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To: TCH

Amen......


359 posted on 12/18/2010 6:17:35 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 .....( History is a process, not an event ))
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To: 2harddrive
Give it 2-3 years - they will have PINK TANKS!!! Believe it! Wait till the Army has Gay Pride day!

That would be a small thing. How 'bout when the Department of Defense proclaims Gay Heritage Month!

360 posted on 12/18/2010 6:18:42 PM PST by Racehorse (Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.)
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To: Jess Kitting

Famous Quote from Samuel Adams

“If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

Quote by: Samuel Adams
(1722-1803), was known as the “Father of the American Revolution.”


361 posted on 12/18/2010 6:23:51 PM PST by Wisconsinlady (DEFUND NPR, PBS, THE TSA AND THE U.N.)
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To: TCH
No, that's not the way. I understand the frustration, but we're winning, not losing.

The way to go is to get trained: http://www.leadershipinstitute.org/training/

Then apply what you've learned to winning elections on the local, state and federal level. Repeat this over and over again across generations.

Think about it. The Left had the Congress and the Presidency for two straight years. What have they accomplished?

They hold our kid's minds hostage in government schools and still our country remains center right.

The hold the MSM and still our voices are heard.

We're winning. They're losing and they've given it their best shot. Obama’s the most radical Dem President since Carter. He's a failure and America, not just America, but the worlds, sees it.

We're winning. We need to do it better and faster, yes.

Here's how: http://www.leadershipinstitute.org/training/

362 posted on 12/18/2010 6:24:57 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: GeronL
bye bye effective fighting force

Just another of many step by the Kenyan to destroy America. He is NOT stupid or clueless like so many of the talkers on radio keep repeating. He knows exactly where this course of action will take this once mighty country. THE KENYAN IS ALL ABOUT "TRNSFORMING" AMERICA. The hidden side effects of this ruling will not become apparent in one fell swoop, and he knows it and his puppet master knows it all too well. THIS IS A WELL PLANNED MASSIVE ATTACK ON AMERICA BY THE FIFTH COLUMN. What percentage of Americans are homos? So we change the mightiest fighting force on the globe to make this tiny little screaming bunch of gays happy?? And make everyone else miserable? I don't call that a Representative Republic. Too many people vote for this crap just like they voted for the Kenyan - GUILT. This guilt is the result of Political Correctness gone insane. The gay community is not discriminated against - a gay has the same rights as everyone does to marry ONE person of the opposite sex. AND I certainly can find no Constitutional sectoin that says GAYS have a right to join the military.
363 posted on 12/18/2010 6:27:15 PM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: BenLurkin

Who is most responsible? Is it GWB or the American people? I say GWB because he failed repeatedly to “lead” the sheeple, who aren’t smart enough to take action on their own. The American people lack the know-how for self-government; that’s why they will have a tyrant, maybe even one of their choice.


364 posted on 12/18/2010 6:28:59 PM PST by Theodore R. (Rush was right when he said America may survive Obama but not the Obama supporters.)
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To: rolling_stone

The Church kept them out for a long time, and it was really only in the 1970s (after the Vatican II debacle and the destruction of orthodoxy and authority in the 60s) that gays got into the seminary in large numbers - and those closeted gays who were in already in the Church suddenly felt that they could - er - express themselves.

It has taken the Church more than 40 years to even begin to get a grip on this, and now most of that crop is aging out, already dead of AIDS, or in jail.

Catholic teaching says that homosexual inclinations are not the sin, but homosexual behavior (not to mention self-identifying as “gay,” which means a person thinks that the most important thing about them is that they want to have sexual relations with persons of the same sex) is sinful.

One of the reasons the Church was so strict on this is that in same sex environments (monasteries and convents), a group of gay persons would inevitably form a little group to protect and promote each other, and even aside from their personal sin, this would be disastrous for the discipline and life of the entire community.

And this is the same in the military, which while it is no longer only male, is a closed environment where people depend on a neutral and not personally involved command structure and environment to be effective. There is absolutely nothing good that can come of the repeal of DADT.


365 posted on 12/18/2010 6:28:59 PM PST by livius
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To: TCH

Famous Quote from Samuel Adams

“If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

Quote by: Samuel Adams
(1722-1803), was known as the “Father of the American Revolution.”


366 posted on 12/18/2010 6:29:16 PM PST by Wisconsinlady (DEFUND NPR, PBS, THE TSA AND THE U.N.)
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To: DakotaRed
Nothing matters but appeasement of Gays who continue to force acceptance of their lifestyle choice upon others. God Bless the USA? No, God Help the USA!

Agree with that. This is only the beginning - all sorts of perversion are now going to be forced on us, they will see this as a huge acceptance of their lifestyle. They will immediately start pushing for things you cannot even imagine, and certainly would not have even been spoken about in polite company even two decades ago. God is NOT going to save this nation IMHO. We will see, but my prayers about removing the Kenyan have ceased - there is a plan that obviously I am not privy to.
367 posted on 12/18/2010 6:32:24 PM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Red Dog #1

Of course we will not hear of the problems. Hear anything about the move of females to combat? Or the number of pregnancies on Carriers? How many female fliers are simply not qualified? How many female soldiers are unable to pass a simple PT course unless the rules are bent?


368 posted on 12/18/2010 6:34:23 PM PST by runninglips (Don't support the Republican party, work to "fundamentally change" it...conservative would be nice)
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To: TCH

Dr. Carle Zimmerman in 1947 wrote a book called Family and Civilization. He studies the decline of several civilizations and empires. He discovered eight patterns of domestic behavior that signaled the decline of a civilization:

1. The breakdown of marriage and rise of divorce.

2. The loss of the traditional meaning of the marriage ceremony.

3. The rise of Feminism.

4. Increased public disrespect for parents and authority in general.

5. Acceleration of juvenile delinquency, promiscuity and rebellion.

6. Refusal of people with traditional marriages to accept their family responsibilities.

7. A growing desire for and acceptance of adultery.

8. Increasing interest in and spread of sexual perversions (homosexuality) and sex-related crimes.


369 posted on 12/18/2010 6:35:05 PM PST by Wisconsinlady (DEFUND NPR, PBS, THE TSA AND THE U.N.)
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To: matt1234
On CSPAN2, the banner read something like "The Pentagon and President must certify that combat readiness will not be diminished."

Kinda like the Homeland Security must certify the border is secure before amnesty will be granted? Seems like that was one of GWB's plans in the 2006-07 great rush to "Comprehensive Reform".

Gates would certify in a hear beat just like Crappy Nappy would certify - IF THEY WANT TO KEEP THEIR JOBS UNDER THE KENYAN USURPER, DESTROYER OF AMERICA.
370 posted on 12/18/2010 6:36:32 PM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: deks

So the government can become completely perverted, the Constitution flushed down the crapper, and the people turned into servile slaves of a corrupt state... BUT, as long as “the government” still wears the moniker “United States” ... well then, hot damn, it’s just peach with you!

We could have Adolph Hitler, reincarnated and running the show... and you’d probably be happy with it. We pretty much have that now... BUT hey, don’t sweat it pal... cause FR will forbid that we should notice and call for someone’s head, according to your myopic view!

Get’s your head out of that dark wet place, and realize that you have LOST your “government” ... it was sacked, “overthrown.” and made burnt toast long ago—and that outcome was made certain specifically because of individuals like yourself, who hide behind civil niceties... even while the enemy is kicking the living crap out of you.

So do not quote civilities to me! This “government” is so far gone to imply an offense is made by any who suggest it be “overthrown.” The “government” no longer exists in any form that its framers would recognize! The irony is that they would be the first screaming for military intervention at this point... BY WE THE PEOPLE... and just who makes up our military forces, if not WE THE PEOPLE?

THE EXACT REASON WHY THE FOUNDERS GAVE US THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS BEING PLAYED OUT IN FRONT OF YOUR VERY EYES... But YOU cannot see it—because YOU do not WANT to see it.

The founders knew this day would come, when we the people would desperately require the principle purpose of the Second Amendment be put into practice. So get a clue.


371 posted on 12/18/2010 6:43:04 PM PST by TCH (DON'T BE AN "O-HOLE"! ... DEMAND YOUR STATE ENACT ITS SOVEREIGNTY !When a majority of the American)
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To: panthermom

It’s a problem. One of the things that gays always claimed is that being “normalized” would mean that they wouldn’t be engaging in all the other things that go alongside (promiscuity, drugs, etc.).

My own experience has been that most gay people, either male or female, have some sort of family or childhood problem that has made it very difficult for them to really grow up and relate to members of the other sex (or even their own). Some of them probably do grow up eventually, and some of them probably are already involved in the “gay lifestyle” and suddenly realize they want more out of life and try to make the best of the place where they find themselves at that time.

But one of the worst things society can do, IMHO, is create a sort of special protected category for them. It only promotes the dysfunctionality, justifies people who really are predators (who may not be the majority, but undeniably are a presence in the gay crowd), does nothing to protect or help people who have sort of wandered into it or are just misfits in one way or another and have picked that particular way of expressing it...and creates a powerful amount of pressure within the gay crowd itself.

Also, I hate the fact that homosexual behavior is now portrayed not only as normal but even as preferable among young people. Kids and teenagers are confused anyway, but when you have folks (including parents) encouraging homosexual behavior and in fact even announcing the fact that they think their prepubescent child is gay or sending young teenagers to special schools for “gay children,” you have a society that is doing everything possible to destroy its own children.


372 posted on 12/18/2010 6:43:37 PM PST by livius
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To: SteamShovel
The RATS are burning down the house like Saddam Hussein did the oil fields on their way out.

The scorched earth position of the scorned Congresscritters - "I'LL SHOW YOU TO VOTE ME OUT OF OFFICE."
373 posted on 12/18/2010 6:44:44 PM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: TomasUSMC

Orrin G. Hatch must be afraid of 2012, or he would have voted yes on this too.


374 posted on 12/18/2010 6:45:52 PM PST by Theodore R. (Rush was right when he said America may survive Obama but not the Obama supporters.)
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To: Jess Kitting

Well then The straight servicemen need to claim sexual harassment at every sideways glance or unseemly overt act that these deviants that are going to be so proudly displaying of their sexuality that type of response will send them all running right back in the closet. Nobody takes the Straight peoples views into consideration regarding this issue what if you had to rack across from an openly gay person in the berthing compartments onboard a ship? You know the people that advocate for this don’t really have any idea what they are asking for...


375 posted on 12/18/2010 6:48:17 PM PST by Typical_Whitey ("It doesn't matter how smart you are, unless you stop and think".... Thomas Sowell)
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To: TomasUSMC

///////////////
So these eight are guilty of loving an abomination. Has Palin spoken out on this yet?....especially since both Alaskan Senators voted for sodomy.”

The core of the RINO hit list. For the next time they are up for election, of course.


376 posted on 12/18/2010 6:56:07 PM PST by jessduntno (Care what the Left thinks of you? "Their opinion of me and my policies is irrelevant." - Dick Cheney)
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To: Terry Mross

Exactly that is why we need to see the law... Before DADT you were not allowed to serve in the military if you were gay and you were admin discharged if you came out because you were asked. The DADT was to conform to allow closeted members the ability to never fear being asked if you were gay... i.e., I on a security clearance form it used to ask if you were homosexual or every practiced that type of sex if you said yes you could not get the clearance after DADT they took the question off same with the entry questions that the recruiter asked. they just stopped asking...

Nobody ever said you could volunteer the information that may be the issue here... The sodomy is still against the UCMJ. Gay sex is sodomy.


377 posted on 12/18/2010 6:56:17 PM PST by Typical_Whitey ("It doesn't matter how smart you are, unless you stop and think".... Thomas Sowell)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

I wonder if Obama will be dedicating this signing ceremony to his friend Larry Saintclair


378 posted on 12/18/2010 7:02:02 PM PST by Typical_Whitey ("It doesn't matter how smart you are, unless you stop and think".... Thomas Sowell)
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To: Walts Ice Pick

I acknowledge your point; however, if we do not return discipline to this nation, then we are beyond help. Unfortunately, out of the three institutions capable of providing that discipline—the Church, the Family, and the Military... up to now, only the Military was not compromised.


379 posted on 12/18/2010 7:06:16 PM PST by TCH (DON'T BE AN "O-HOLE"! ... DEMAND YOUR STATE ENACT ITS SOVEREIGNTY !When a majority of the American)
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To: trumandogz

The present civilian “government” CAN AND DOES do that now.


380 posted on 12/18/2010 7:16:50 PM PST by TCH (DON'T BE AN "O-HOLE"! ... DEMAND YOUR STATE ENACT ITS SOVEREIGNTY !When a majority of the American)
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To: Jess Kitting
I pray God to help the UNited States...but know that if we, as a people, turn from Him as this ruling most certainly does...He will withdraw His support from us.

But the people,MHO, do not support this and do not want it...but they voted these monsters in who are doing so anyway. God help us turn this round. So long as He knows there is a majority of people in this country who reverence Hi...He will guide us back. I pray that it is so.

There will literally be hell to pay in the military as this ruling goes into effect.

381 posted on 12/18/2010 7:26:44 PM PST by Jeff Head (Liberty is not free. Never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Wisconsinlady

Geeze... Do you have any good news?


382 posted on 12/18/2010 7:28:38 PM PST by TCH (DON'T BE AN "O-HOLE"! ... DEMAND YOUR STATE ENACT ITS SOVEREIGNTY !When a majority of the American)
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To: TCH
>> WRONG. WE are not a Democracy, but a Republic. The rule of Law... NOT the rule of majority. <<

WRONG. WE are a Democratic Republic. "Democracy" is simply Greek for "people rule". It just makes We The People the ultimate source of authority in a government. It says nothing about requiring a majority or even how power is distributed from the people. In our case, we are a representative democracy where the people elect people to make laws on our behalf.

If we were "NOT a Democracy, but a Republic", we'd live in a country like Cuba.

383 posted on 12/18/2010 7:30:14 PM PST by BillyBoy (Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: rolling_stone

“I guess Congress is too stupid to learn from the Catholic Church debacle with gay pedophile priests.”

Wrong term.

Pederast is the correct term for homosexual attraction to male prepubescent children. Pedophile is a broad term that describes a sexual attraction for children in general.


384 posted on 12/18/2010 7:32:19 PM PST by TCH (DON'T BE AN "O-HOLE"! ... DEMAND YOUR STATE ENACT ITS SOVEREIGNTY !When a majority of the American)
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To: Impy; fieldmarshaldj; Clintonfatigued
I'm very disappointed with Ensign and Burr voting for final passage. Burr just got re-elected but Ensign needs to hear from his constituents and recant this or face a primary challenger in 2012. The other “Republicans” voting for it were sadly predictable, though I would place Scott Brown a hair to the right of Kirk & the Maine twins. Murkowski used to be slightly better as well, but post-primary Murkowski seemed to be emboldened that she can overturn the will of GOP voters, and is now firmly in DIABLO status.
385 posted on 12/18/2010 7:34:52 PM PST by BillyBoy (Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
The DemocRATS and RINOs who voted for this insult to our bravest patriots deserve every ounce of energy to repeal THEM from their office ASAP.

Really not something that a retired Marine and dad of 2 Marines who just re-enlisted wanted to hear on his 58th birthday.

Thanks LIBERALS, for ruining the last bastion of integrity and morality left in the country.

386 posted on 12/18/2010 7:39:15 PM PST by Chieftain (2010 begins the new CONSERVATIVE revolution!)
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To: livius

Mind if I quote you on all of this? I know some individuals who desperately need to read something like what you have stated here.


387 posted on 12/18/2010 7:42:08 PM PST by TCH (DON'T BE AN "O-HOLE"! ... DEMAND YOUR STATE ENACT ITS SOVEREIGNTY !When a majority of the American)
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To: Chieftain

HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY TEUFELHUNDE CHIEFTAIN.......

“Aren’t you glad you’re not a Birthday?
Cause....Birthdays only COME once a year!”...hee hee.

Not to worry about the Marines..I have this feeling they will take care of this in their usual inimitable style.


388 posted on 12/18/2010 7:44:40 PM PST by Recovering Ex-hippie (Ok....Joke's over...Bring Back Bush!)
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To: Jess Kitting

Great, so now the immoral have been granted a special exclusive because they want to practice an ungodly and immoral lifestyle. This isn’t about race or sex, it’s about immorality and the senators and congressman who voted for this have placed this country under even stronger judgment. I hope you’ll realize your mistake when God puts the USA in the dustbin of history.........


389 posted on 12/18/2010 7:52:54 PM PST by ducttape45
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To: BillyBoy

You better go read the history of this nation’s founding, and specifically, you had best read the arguments put forth in the Federalist Papers. You are 100 percent wrong.


390 posted on 12/18/2010 7:53:24 PM PST by TCH (DON'T BE AN "O-HOLE"! ... DEMAND YOUR STATE ENACT ITS SOVEREIGNTY !When a majority of the American)
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To: TCH; livius
You may as well also add the theory that homosexuality is often a form of 'somatic narcissism' - you can think of it as 'narcissism by proxy'. http://www.enotalone.com/article/2618.html

It certainly fits, when you consider the "LOOK AT ME!! LOOK AT ME!!" attitude that comes from many homosexuals.
391 posted on 12/18/2010 8:03:07 PM PST by beezdotcom
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To: Irenic
This has to be he new battle clarion from the Tea Party.

I told McConnell's staffer today, we need protection for those who enlisted prior to repeal. There is or was a category called "Conscientious Objectors" If for religious reasons members can no longer serve, they are honorably discharged. Heterosexual service members not facing any other disciplinary action can apply for CO status and be honorably discharged with full VA benefits. Do this and you could see the flight of service members that will otherwise not occur because they do not want to lose VA benefits. Write your congress critter especially incoming Tea Party members and demand heterosexuals who prefer not to serve with gays can receive protection as 'Conscientious Objectors" until they can be honorably discharged.

392 posted on 12/18/2010 8:03:43 PM PST by OldGoatCPO
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To: Jet Jaguar
Huge Pandora’s box has just opened.

The American military and it's 200+ years of success, warriorhood and culture, essentially no longer exists as of today. Within 2 to 5 years, none of us will even recognize it.

December 18, 2010, a day that will live in infamy.

The military is all about singularity and cohesiveness. The unit principle. Homos by nature demand attention, energy and special treatment simply because they bum each other. They will draw all energy and resources away from the general population.

The Progressives destroyed the finest military on earth without a single shot being fired.

Just consider what this leads to:

Scenario 1: A good Bible belt boy has to room with a gay activist flamer type. They sleep in the same room. Share duties and showers and the Bible belter is now forced to listen to the homosexual talk hours on end on the cell phone with his current same sex lover.

In the meantime, the homosexual has been asked by another platoon member, also gay, to tell him about the statistics of the straight Bible belter's private parts. Because he is attracted to him but knows there isn't a chance he'll ever see him naked.

In the meantime, the Bible belter gets wind of the two and their discussions about him. What do you think would happen? This is only ONE possible scenario.

The Senate completely eliminated and destroyed the morale of our armed forces today. They are too perverted and too stupid to realize it yet. Or too mentally sick to care. Or they seek the complete destruction of this great nation. We are now Rome.

All downhill from here.

393 posted on 12/18/2010 8:06:28 PM PST by 444Flyer ("The contest for ages has been to rescue liberty from the grasp of executive power." -Daniel Webster)
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To: TCH
I have read the federalist papers and I just aced a class in comparative government. I am 100% right. The founding fathers often mentioned we were a Republic (as Republics were very rare in 1789, unlike today!), but never claimed were "a Republic and NOT a Democracy". They (example, Benjamin Franklin) specifically said we were a Republic and not a MONARCHY. That statement was correct, but twisting their words around and claiming they denied we were a democracy doesn't help your case.

That would be like existing the head of the executive branch is "the Chief Magistrate, and NOT a President", because people in the 1780s preferred to use the former term in their writings.

The founding fathers frequently said they opposed an ABSOLUTE democracy, but the United States is not an absolute democracy, it is a represetnative democracy (if it were an absolute democracy where "majority rules", then all 310 million of us could vote on whether Obamacare should become a law)

A "Republic" is a nation with an ordinary person as head of state and not a royal person like a Duke or King. It has nothing to do with freedom or rule of law. Many Republics in the world today are dictatorships and one-party regimes. A "Democracy" is a nation where the people are the ultimate source of authority. It has nothing to do with majority rule. In fact, I can't think of a single industrialized democracy in the world today that uses absolute majority rule. Look it up in Webster's dictionary and it will confirm for you what a "Republic" and what a "Democracy" is.

If you disagree with it, your argument is with the dictionary, not me.

394 posted on 12/18/2010 8:10:13 PM PST by BillyBoy (Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: SteamShovel

I like the analogy. Maybe someone with some photo shop skills could put Pelosi, Reid and Obama in a picture with the oil fields burning.


395 posted on 12/18/2010 8:15:37 PM PST by OldGoatCPO
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To: TCH

I didn’t say we were a democracy.

Trust me, I am well aware of the fact we are a republic.

BUT, look at the structure of the government defined by the Constitution.

How does a representative get elected? By a majority of people in a district. Ditto a Senator, but by a majority of people in a state. (I know you know this. Just illustrative.)

Again, I know you know this. But for purposes of illustration: majorities of Congress and Senate are required to pass bills.

In short: if ‘representatives’ really are representing their constituents, and if a majority of ‘representatives’ representing their constituents vote a certain way on issue X or Y, then that is majority rule. Of course, it goes without saying that our system has inherent advantages over democracies which again I know you know.


396 posted on 12/18/2010 8:18:49 PM PST by apronius (Good start, but not complete.)
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To: TCH

Well, I’ll acknowledge that a civil war is a possibility. However, it is one we want to avoid at all costs.

Sorry you disagree with me. But I will point out that the libs have gotten this far without firing a shot.


397 posted on 12/18/2010 8:22:42 PM PST by apronius (Good start, but not complete.)
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To: TCH
Merriam-Webster defintions

============================================================

de·moc·ra·cy
noun \di-ˈmä-krə-sē\
plural de·moc·ra·cies

a : government by the people;

b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

Origin of DEMOCRACY
Middle French democratie, from Late Latin democratia, from Greek dēmokratia, from dēmos (people) + -kratia (rule) -cracy
First Known Use: 1576

============================================

re·pub·lic
noun \ri-ˈpə-blik\
Definition of REPUBLIC

1 a (1) : a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president
(2) : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government

Origin of REPUBLIC
French république, from Middle French republique, from Latin respublica, from res thing, wealth + publica, feminine of publicus public — more at real, public
First Known Use: 1604

=========================================================================

I see nothing about all Republics having "the rule of law" and all Democracies having "the rule of the majority". I could take you to plenty of Republics and Democracies in the world that don't have either.

This why nations like the United KINGDOM still have free elections and the rule of law when they're NOT Republics, and places like the REPUBLIC of Cuba can rule by military regime and lock up dissidents without a constitution for years.

Any political science class in America would be happy to confirm that for you. You'd flunk if you answered an essay question with "What is a Republic?" with "a nation with checks and balances and the rule of law".

398 posted on 12/18/2010 8:24:49 PM PST by BillyBoy (Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: unixfox

“Anyone have the names of Republicans voting for this BS?
The usual TRAITORS or course.”

From the big grin on her face as she walked beside Lieberman who was giving thumbs up, she must have been one of the six and was true to form. There is nothing we can do about the two ME Rinos because they represent all ME Rinos who keep voting them back in. As for Scott Brown who said he would vote for it, he’s the best we can do in this most liberal state.


399 posted on 12/18/2010 8:24:53 PM PST by balls (Enough of the politically correct "progressive" label, they are LIBERALS!)
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To: balls
You are right but Kirk nor Burr had to vote for this crap. I am beyond shock and feel like fighting back.

We need to get the incoming freshman especially the conservatives on board with protecting heterosexual service members who enlisted or accepted a commission prior to repeal of DADT. Those who can show that living with openly gay people is against their upbringing, inconsistent with their moral values or membership in an institution that considers homosexuality to be an abomination can be given an honorable discharge with full VA benefits. Gays do not have to be the only protected class in the military.

The military will oppose this because they know their poll was a load of garbage. But if Congress passes a rule like this and describes it as a bill to protect military members who enlisted prior to repeal Mullens will have to accept it.

400 posted on 12/18/2010 8:56:01 PM PST by OldGoatCPO
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