REVOLUTION! ... or what? (Vanity)

Lazamataz ^ | 12/24/2010 | By Lazamataz

[Jack Black]

Now, how many advocates of armed action have actually fired weapons in anger or seen a civil war first hand?

Well Lazz's article was in opposition to armed action, and the majority of those commenting on this thread as supporting his position, so I don't think there is a lot of advocating armed action going on here.

As for the second part of your question: I was in the very center of Detroit (Belle Isle) in July of 1967. That's as close as I've been to a civil war.

Arguably the many friends and Freepers who were in the Veitnam, Afghan and Iraq wars have seen civil wars up very close.

It is a truism of history that those who advocate for war and those who fight them tend to be from different classes. I believe several ancient greeks commented on this. In our own time many of the most outspoken advocates for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had no history of military service.

In my humble opinion this doesn't immediately mean they are wrong, or their opinion is worth less. Wars are fought be grunts, planned by Generals, and begun by politicians. WW2 would be a good counter-example of the politicians (Chamberlain) refusing to do what his role required of him.

[Doomonyou]

Doink for later

[Jack Black]

Those Europeans and Russians have a long history of subservience. The vast majority of Russians held the elite in absolute contempt for a generation before they finally had a peaceful revolution and overthrew them. Today Russia has one of the fastest growing ecnonomies in the world.

Meanwhile, in the "home of the brave" we are told we can't use incandescent lightbulbs, have toilets that work with one flush, have gasoline that's not full of corn oil to enrich highly influential millionaire cronies of the regime and 1000 other insults.

I would not be so quick to praise yourself and put down others when we ourselves have proven so weak and acquisening in the face of OUR socialist monsters.

[central_va]

I guess we’ll have to sink to a point where revolt is the only option, secession being the best way to go. Further decay must happen. The left has homosexualized an already feminized culture to the point the military is being fagged, tell me when will we hit bottom? Who will call the bottom?

[B4Ranch]

>>Now, how many advocates of armed action have actually fired weapons in anger or seen a civil war first hand?<<

Ask how many combat veterans from Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan is there? Then ask them what they were fighting for.... to see America become a socialist regime or to maintain our Constitution?

I am one who has fired my rifle in anger, as you put it. Actually it was in defense of the men who were with me and myself.

[Quix]

EXCELLENT ARTICLE.

HAS BEEN MY CONCLUSION FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

[Jack Black]

Your denunciation of "Leaning Right" is pretty harsh and uncalled for

Ah, no that ISN'T how it happened. Your infantile understand of the first US Civil War taints your thinking.

He was merely commenting using the language someone else used, it was not his formulation. I'm sure he's quite familiar with the long political procses that led to secession and then Civil War in the USA.

Still, his poit was valid: the last time that states tried to break away, using formal political processes it ended in a shooting war. Therefore the onus is on those who claim it can be done peacefully this time to explain why.

The American Civil War was the last major American war where the massed infantry composed of soldiers armed with basic rifles was the main battle unit. Backed by simple cannons. By WW1 you had tanks, airplanes, machinegunners, huge howitzers, etc.

[Jack Black]

On the otherhand a denunciation by you of my spelling would be well deserved.

[Georgia Girl 2]

I do think states have the right to secede I just don’t think its the way to go. I’m for a United States of America with a small central government. We just need to get back to the small central government part. The GOP is not going to do that for us as much as we wish they would.

The real power in this country is the states. They have just failed to exercise their powers for the past 100 years or so. Time to flex some muscle. Massachusetts and Georgia should be able to be in the same union and get along just fine. Individual states can have different ways of doing things and still be in the same union.

As far as a Constitutional Convention be careful what you wish for. Given the current sate of affairs the left wing loon states will send a bunch of progressive delegates to the convention and next thing you know the 1st and 2nd ammendments will be gone.

Merry Christmas to all.

[Jack Black]

When we evaluate the chances of success of a hypothetical armed revolution/insurrection, we can look at the Vietnam model for clues as to how this would work, or, for that matter, our own revolution. Vietnam is a good model because it involved a relatively primitive indigenous population against a much better-armed, larger military. Unless the government is willing to engage in indiscriminate slaughter of the population (which would NOT be supported by our military, believe me), then the hit-and-run tactics used by the VC would render large-scale military retaliations by the government almost impossible. The revolutionaries strike a target, then go home and eat dinner as if they are just the same as the peaceable citizens, and the government has no reliable way of knowing who all the revolutionaries were. Sure, they'll get some, but they would not be able to combat the revolutionaries effectively without waging war on the population as a whole, which in turn would turn more people against them. Remember - we live here. We own the land. We ARE the land.

People don't seem to notice the war we are in, but the Afghan Taliban have essentially stalemated the US military. We've been there since 2001 and much of the country is still not under out control. There are many reasons for this, but the net is that even with all our drones, special forces, airforce, CIA and air superiority we haven't been able to stamp out a small but determined minority fighting on their own land.

I have read estimates that there are only a few thousand active Taliban fighters. If so that is quite amazing, and doesn't bode well for an Obama-led military to assert control over dozens of Red States should it ever come to that.

[Leaning Right]

I do not consider the firing on Fort Sumpter to be an orderly process. And I do consider cannon, muskets, etc. to be the 1860’s equivalent of today’s AK-47’s.

Perhaps you disagree. If so, fine. Please educate me. I am willing to learn. But understand that name-calling will NEVER bring anyone over to your way of thinking.

[dusttoyou]

Bull Shite!
“Russians held the elite in absolute contempt for a generation before they finally had a peaceful revolution and overthrew them”. They did nothing until the impact of Reagan and still would be USSR without Ronald Reagan's leadership of USA pushing the USSR over the edge.

“Today Russia has one of the fastest growing ecnonomies in the world”. 2nd BS, they are the most CORRUPT economy. If it weren't for oil and gas they'd right down there with Zimbabwe.

[Leaning Right]

“...the left wing loon states will send a bunch of progressive delegates to the convention and next thing you know the 1st and 2nd ammendments will be gone.”

Now that’s a very good point. The next Constitutional Convention, if there is one, would have to be done with an abundance of caution.

[central_va]

Perhaps you disagree. If so, fine. Please educate me. I am willing to learn. But understand that name-calling will NEVER bring anyone over to your way of thinking.

The South seceded, state by state thru an ORDERLY process of voting. Then Armies were formed. The only place where there was guerrilla fighting was in the western theater. Though brutal, it WAS not the rule, it was the exception. The only civilian killed in the Eastern theater, where more than half the war was fought, the South was responsible for killing ONE citizen. That was done by mistake at the battle of Gettysburg.

Having said that, war is the last thing these socialist Yahoos want. As a matter of fact they would be relieved if the red states left. Just talk to some of the libs in the NE. If the Red states left the socialist could quickly enact their Socialist Utopia™, No fighting at all, These are not your GGGF Yankees,

[PLMerite]

bump for when nobody’s watching.

[wintertime]

They have two generations on us, so we won't be alive to see the fruits of our labor.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

“They” ( the Marxists) have five to six generations on us. Please remember that Upton Sinclair was a Fabian socialist.

“It” started when the first government owned and run collectivist schools opened in the mid 1800s to early 1900s. We can not send generations of children into government collectivist schools without children becoming very comfortable with taking money from their neighbor to pay for a service ( schooling) that their parents want for tuition-free.

Is a “duh” needed here?

If government can use the threat of police force to take money from a neighbor for schooling, why not a **thousand** other wants and needs? Woodrow Wilson, the IRS, the federal reserve, Franklin D. Roosevelt, etc. were NOT NOT NOT accidents. Collectivist government schooling made it INEVITABLE!!!!

So?...If we are to prevail over the Marxists we MUST MUST MUST do the following:

1) Strive to get as many children out of the collectivist government schools as possible. Homeschooling, private schooling, and private philanthropy to provide private vouchers must be a start.

2) Tax credits, voucher, and charters can be the means to build the private infrastructure but complete privatization should be the goal.

3) Do everything possible within the law and the voting process to frustrate the funding and expansion of collectivist government schooling.

By the way...FORGET THE CHURCHES! There are too many government collectivist teachers sitting in the pews ( and all the employees and vendors to these collectivist schools). Very few ministers will bite the hand putting money in the collection plate.

One more thing:

In the beginning collectivist government schooling offered up a generic and lukewarm Protestantism. ( We know what Christ does with the lukewarm. He spits them out of His mouth!)

By my grandmother day ( born 1894) they were essentially godless with a sprinkle of prayer and scripture. Today they are **actively** teaching children to think godlessly. Collectivist government schools are **PREACHING** the government sanctified religion of atheistic secular humanism.

**ALL** collectivist government indoctrination camps in this nation are a First Amendment and freedom of conscience abomination. ALL of them! ( The good, the bad, and the ugly!)

[fr_freak]

Well, waging guerrilla tactics against a foreign invader or unelected domestic despot is one thing.

But to do so against your own freely-elected government (as misguided as that government may be), would be considered by many patriots, including me, as a form of treason.

Then you are saying you'd be loyal to the government no matter what they did, as long as "elections" were held? At what point would you consider the government to be illegitimate? The interesting thing about our current situation is that we have a high percentage of "citizens" who have been indoctrinated to despise their own country, and the Constitution, and the principles set forth in the Constitution. They then help elect like-minded people to our government, which then acts in violation of the highest law of our land. You should ask yourself what it is that you are really loyal to, because, for me, it is the Constitution first, then the government, as long as the government is acting within the limits of the Constitution, regardless of whether they are elected or not. And we won't even go into the subject of the blatant voter fraud in terms of legitimacy.

I think a Constitutional convention would be a bad idea at this point because we have too many people who despise our founding principles, so a convention would provide them with the opportunity to remove those principles from our highest law, whether by legitimate vote or by fraud.

[PLM]

We’ll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgment of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
And I’ll get on my knees and pray
We don’t get fooled again
Don’t get fooled again

Change it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fall that’s all
But the world looks just the same
And history ain’t changed
‘Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war

I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
And I’ll get on my knees and pray
We don’t get fooled again
Don’t get fooled again
No, no!

I’ll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I’ll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie

Do ya?

There’s nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I’ll get on my knees and pray
We don’t get fooled again
Don’t get fooled again
No, no!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

[Dick Bachert]

There are other methods to which I pray we do not have to resort described here by one who lived through them.

Solzhenitsyn’s wisdom may be updated by simply substituting “tyrants” for “communists” (but they’re synonyms, aren’t they?). And be warned that they are EVERYWHERE. Get my drift?

“...At what exact point, then, should one resist the
communists?...”
“How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what
would things have been like if every Security operative, when he
went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether
he would return alive and had to say good bye to his family?
“Or if during periods of mass arrests people had not simply
sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang on the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had
understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand...the Organs (police) would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers...and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt.”
Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago

[DTogo]

1.Somewhat-organized brigades of irregulars: Frankly, the best you could hold to field would be barely-trained irregulars with very poor C3 (Command, Control and Communications). If you could even assemble them, the irregulars would be put down quickly by professional military and police combinations. Armed with over-the-horizon technology, devastating missile technology, and unmanned drones, you'd never see it coming, and as a heat source, you'd stand out in the wilderness like a lightbulb.

Why the sudden leap to an old-school meeting on the battlefield and Fedzilla's open use of the Military? Not likely without further outraging the public.

2.Professional Military Crossover: You'd get some takers, no question. We still have patriotic people in the military. But, they would be stripped of command and control machinery and the best weaponry. They would be a good adjunct and advisor group to irregulars, but they would not have the true power of the geniune military. They, too, would be crushed.

Would politicians in DC be able to rely on the Military to crush and kill the very people who've been their greatest flag-waving supporters for the past decade? A majority in the military would more likely stand down, effectivley removing that option.

3.Leaderless Cell-based Resistance: These are routinely branded as terrorists, and are treated as non-citizen combatants, replete with the stripping of civil liberties, etcetera. Monitoriing and surviellance (especially network link-analysis) makes them relatively ineffective in this very-modern, very-computerized society, since any code you define would be immediately cracked, and patterns of contact are very observable. Further, what mischief would you make, without garnering negative publicity?

Fedzilla can't walk and chew gum domestically, let alone internationally (i.e. Katrina, BP oil spill). A nationwide insurrection would immediatley overload their ability to function, let alone effectively put down numerous skirmishes at once without suffering heavy losses due to their own poor C3, further diminishing expectations of success. Not to mention the resulting social chaos that would likely erupt in various inner cities, and folks who would take advantage of it (looters, anarchists, etc), further straining resources. Janet Napolitano is no David Petreaus.

4.Mass Demonstrations: There are now very effective non-lethal counters to this form of resistance. From the microwave-emitter to much-more-potent pepper-sprays to the sound-caster, there are ways to effectively break up a demonstration without actually killing or maiming people, and thusly the government garners no 'Kent State'-style negative publicity, with the concurrent changing of the public's mood.

Demonstrations with tear gas are for Lefties, again who would likely be taking advantage of the chaos by rioting for their own "chaos" agenda.