Posted on 01/30/2011 1:55:47 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
DALLAS — A suburban Dallas teenager had to take on a waitressing job to pay $637 after being ticketed for using bad language in a high school classroom.
Court records show that teacher Michelle Lene heard Victoria Mullins say "you trying to start (expletive)" loudly in class one day last October. She was sent to the principal's office and given lunch detention. The next day, the school resource officer presented the North Mesquite High School student a ticket.
......The complaint said Lene was offended, and that Mullins' language was a breach of the peace.
Mullins acknowledges she was wrong, but said a classmate was getting on her nerves.
(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...
I’m really torn about this issue. I know that when a suspect curses at a police officer he cannot be arrested or cited for this offense.
The reason is that the law is designed to deal with language that causes others to respond in a way which breaches the peace.
Police officers are not allowed to lose their cool as a result of bad language.
I’m not sure teachers are allowed to either which makes me think this a a bad charge legally. Just my thoughts as a lawyer.
If you read, you'll note that I didn't say whether it was appropriate or inappropriate to give citations. I write a referral that says, "So and so said 'f%ck' during class." I have NO SAY as to whether a student just gets a phone call home or whether they get in-school suspension or whether they get a citation. NONE. Is anyone here suggesting that a teacher just overlook the use of obscene/profane language?
I seem insensitive to CW? CW has posted several inaccuracies as fact. CW has suggested, with no knowledge whatsoever, that I am a teacher's union member. The entirety of CW's post was supposition rather than fact. As a matter of fact, I am a monthly donor at this website, and have been for years. Would it make sense for a union member to support this site? I am tired of hardworking teachers who do their very best to teach kids what they need to know being cast as socialists/communists/pro-GLBT types. I'm tired of know-nothings spouting their rants as factual. I'm sick of being bad-mouthed. I'm sick of some people at this website behaving exactly like their counterparts on the Left.
“Call them a procrastinator...they won’t know what that means and will be highly insulted.”
I'm afraid I don't quite understand. You're "not sure teachers are allowed to either"? To do what? Do you mean "lose their cool"? Are you suggesting that teachers should accept inappropriate language? How is it "losing cool" to fill out a form that reports inappropriate behavior? I remind you that inappropriate behavior must be reported. I remind you that the teacher reporting (at least in my Texas school district) has no say in what consequences are dispensed. Principals and judges (if there's a citation) do that.
[Just so you know-- my kids rarely use profanity. I, personally, have never written a referral for profanity. Obscenity is far more common. ]
I think you are doing your job. I just question the wisdom in making profanity a criminal justice issue.
I personally think a paddle to the backside is in order for cursing at a teacher.
That’s because the issue is respect, which is something kids need to learn.
If they don’t learn it there is a justice system waiting for them when they do something serious down the road.
Let me play devil’s advocate for a second: the main reason for the ticket was that the teacher was offended. How many times does a teacher get offended if a student questions book material, for example. During a recent honors history class, my son “offended” the teacher when he questioned the premise that Americans “victimized” the Japanese by using Atomic Bombs. Son’s point of view was using the bombs saved at least a million American lives. My point is this: ticketing a student for “offending” a teacher could very easily go down a path restricting freedom of speech very easily. IMHO.
Looks like the school agreed with you, 'cuz that's how this ended up.
The girl has an extra assignment (doing research to find a job, then the extra assignment, waitressing) and finally she has a regular after school 'suspension', having to show up for work.
All in all, this has the potential to be far more productive than anything that could have happened inside the walls of the school.
Well, that might be the case if it was only a single incident of swearing in class, but in some schools the discipline is so lacking that some of the kids actually take control of the class by swearing and saying gross things in class that offend everyone. For instance when they ask to go to the restroom, they describe everything that they plan to do in the restroom and then start an argument if if the teacher tries to censor their speech.
There is no other purpose.
I agree that discipline is key to a successful school. Were the parents notified? Was the student expected to do a detention first? My point is that some liberals can use this philosophy for other things other than cussing. What my son’s high school is seeing are student’s challenging liberal views openly. The kid’s are questioning global warming in science, anti-American sentiment in history, anti-God sentiment in science etc... What frightens me is the concept that this can be very easily used to control/maintain indoctrination of liberal views without question.
Just make the kid write a thousand times, “I will not say %^&$ in class.”
Not if their Union has anything to do with it!
Mel
The Brothers at my Catholic high school would have taken to me with some well placed leather - and even though I would not have been happy about I would have not done it again - Good tough teachers were still around in the 70’s and I am glad I went through school at that time - The fondest memories I have are of those tough teachers and how good I felt when I earned their respect!
Mel
Respectfully I think teachers give up because they are not allowed to dish out effective discipline these days. They have little to keep an unruly class in line and, yes, little or no support from parents, principals, school boards, Government.
Being a precious little flower will not help this teacher’s chances of lasting in their chosen filed.
My mom was a teacher - this kid would not have spoken out of turn again and good old mom would have kept it in class.
Mel
No, it wasn’t a $637 fine for cussing. If you read the very short article (so you know what you’re talking about), the original fine was $340. The other $300 was for failing to show up for the original court date. (Brilliant on the part of the student, right?) And I’ll just bet, given what happens in my school district, this wasn’t the first time that she’d used obscenity in the classroom. (She got off with warnings or d-halls.)
In the case that I sighted, the girl in question always quoted her grandmother when disciplined. Her excuse always started, Well, my grandma says that it’s healthy to talk about bathroom activities, or sex or whatever it is that the girl was discussing in very graphic terms and if her grandmother was summoned to the school, she would have claimed freedom of speech.
I mean this girl would discuss her bowel movements and how she felt while making a bowel movement and how she knew that she had to go. She was the leader of a girl gang and the school refused to give the teacher any support.
To me, teachers need support when it comes to discipline and that is just the plain, simple fact. Gang activity is frightening. Our schools have a great deal of MS 13 and other hispanic gangs and that frightens me to death. I feel sorry for that particular teacher because even her own administration didn’t give her support. Essentially, she was alone and that isn’t where a teacher should be. Simple decorum is needed in schools... and should be embraced by everyone. IMHO
The teachers were advised to get tough and to speak to the students on their own level.
When the Phillies won, not only the students took off from school, the teachers didn’t show up, either.
My fifth & sixth grade teacher was a Marine and the principal as well. This was a small rural school. We saw him a few minutes in the morning for calling roll and giving assignments. We saw him again at lunch. We saw him after lunch when he sent us outside. His tenure as our teacher was sitting in his office chain smoking his Kent 100's either myself or another student was sent across the hiway to the store every morning to buy for him. Fith and sixth was grade was wasted time. Ah the 60's LOL.
The English teacher though honestly did right by us. School is about learning subjects as well as about life or should be. High School English for those not bound for college can be better used in most cases. I wish mandatory English would only be two years in high school. No one in that class was going to college. They had advanced classes for that.
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