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U.S. Officials Behind 'Fast and Furious' Gun Sales Should Be Tried in Mexico, Lawmaker Says
Fox News ^ | July 05, 2011 | William La Jeunesse

Posted on 07/05/2011 4:23:56 PM PDT by moonshinner_09

While the investigation continues into the U.S. operation that helped send thousands of guns south of the border, Mexican lawmakers say they'll press for extradition and prosecution in Mexico of American officials who authorized and ran the operation.

"I obviously feel violated. I feel my country's sovereignty was violated," Mexico Sen. Rene Arce Islas told Fox News. "They should be tried in the United States and the Mexican government should also demand that they also be tried in Mexico since the incidents took place here. There should be trials in both places."

Arce is chairman of Mexico's Commission for National Security, a congressional panel similar to the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee.

His point of view is shared by many Mexican politicians, including Sen. Santiago Creel, a former Interior Minister and the likely presidential nominee next year of the National Action Party to succeed Felipe Calderone, also of PAN.

"I think we should at least try to prove that what happened in Mexico must be sanctioned by Mexican laws and under our sovereignty," Creel told us. "What can't happen is that this now ends on an administrative sanction, or a resignation. No, no, no. Human lives were lost here. A decision was made to carry out an operation that brought very high risk to human lives."

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Mexico; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atf; buildthefence; gunwalker; immigration; mexico; mx; sodomhusseinobama
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To: Lurker
Yes, we did. Now go learn why we didi it.

PDF interfered in our freedom of movement exercises and regularly harassed our troops and citizens.

Then why was he in a Federal prison after the cessation of hostilities? Wasn't the war over?

Under Article 85 of the Third Geneva Convention, Noriega is still considered a prisoner of war, despite his conviction for acts committed prior to his capture by the "detaining power" (the United States). This status has meant that in Florida he had his own prison cell furnished with electronics and exercise equipment. His cell had been nicknamed "the presidential suite".

You're wrong. Just admit it and move on.

That's my advice to you. The difference between Noriega and Holder is monumental. Panama didn't extradite Noriega to us. We captured him. Mexico is free to issue warrants against our citizens and try them in abstentia for any crimes they believe our citizens committed but that doesn't mean we have to or should extradite said citizens.

41 posted on 07/05/2011 6:20:50 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
That, by itself, doesn't mean we have to extradite Holder and/or Obama to Mexico ~ but there's really no good reason to NOT do that.

Mexico doesn't have an official death penalty whereas Texas does. To the degree any of those crimes were commited in whole or in part in Texas then Texas would be forced to execute them both.

They have a much better chance with Mexico. They should start packing now. Get in while the getting is good.

42 posted on 07/05/2011 6:54:12 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: moonshinner_09

Extradite Holder!


43 posted on 07/05/2011 7:09:08 PM PDT by UnwashedPeasant (Don't nuke me, bro)
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To: Lurker
I've only been pointing out our Extradition Treaty with Mexico for the past two weeks.

The ATF committed crimes against Mexico and nothing is being done about it on this side (US) of the border.

44 posted on 07/05/2011 7:58:58 PM PDT by Deaf Smith (I spent all my money on women & booze, the other rest I just plain blew.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
but that doesn't mean we have to or should extradite said citizens.

Actually we do have to. Here's a link to the US-Mexican Extradition Treaty.

L

45 posted on 07/05/2011 8:03:32 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: moonshinner_09

I have to agree with them, send them to rot in
Mexico.

I’d bet some of them would talk their heads of
to avoid that.


46 posted on 07/05/2011 8:04:09 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: moonshinner_09

Extradite Holder and Zero? Where do I sign up to help?


47 posted on 07/05/2011 8:05:51 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("Mr. Romney and Mr. Obama are not rivals, they're running mates." - Rep. Thaddeus McCotter)
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To: Lurker
I was mistaken, it has been the past four weeks.

Saturday, June 04, 2011 8:34:41 AM · 13 of 19 Deaf Smith to eyeamok " it is nothing but a dog and pony show." Easy enough. Give pertaining evidence of deaths in Mexico tied to the guns to the Mexican authorities. Let the Mexican government issue arrest warrants & extradition papers on the ATF agents. The ATF agents would turn on Holder & Hussein very quickly vs risking Mexican prisons.

48 posted on 07/05/2011 8:20:34 PM PDT by Deaf Smith (I spent all my money on women & booze, the other rest I just plain blew.)
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To: Pearls Before Swine
"... as it is their policies that caused the problem!"

...as it is their policies that caused the ATROCITY! I wish that word was used more, instead of "tragedy". Whenever it is a person that has committed a heinous act, the word ATROCITY should ALWAYS be used!

49 posted on 07/05/2011 8:52:25 PM PDT by jackibutterfly (The American Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.)
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To: Lurker

But you didn’t actually read that treaty, right? No, because if you did, you’d realize that there are certain restrictions on extradition between the U.S. and Mexico. Namely, we don’t have to extradite our own nationals (citizens). It’s up to us to decide if we will or not. Mexico does not extradite its citizens but agrees to prosecute them itself if appropriate. It’s called a jurisdictional restriction on extradition.

For all those on this thread who would so willingly turn over an American citzen to Mexico, you might want to apply that logic to yourself or your children and then decide if in that circumstance you’d want to be governed by the Constitution of the United States or by international law.

I cannot believe I’m having this discussion with any FReeper.


50 posted on 07/06/2011 4:02:37 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: muawiyah
but there's really no good reason to NOT do that.

Yes, there is. It's called protecting our sovereignty. We're not bound by extradition treaties to extradite our own nationals and we shouldn't set a precedent by doing so in this case. The U.S. Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land. Our citizens are protected by and have rights under it.

Hatred or dislike of the individuals involved is clouding your good judgment as an American citizen and as a conservative who respects the Constitution.

51 posted on 07/06/2011 4:10:23 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: Deaf Smith

But have you pointed out that we aren’t bound by that treaty to extradite our own citizens to Mexico and that Mexico does not extradite its citizens to us because Mexican law does not allow it?

Our citizens have rights and protections under the Constitution. I can’t believe you’d so easily dismiss the Constitution and our sovereignty by turning over our citizens for prosecution in Mexico. We have jurisdiction over our own citizens.


52 posted on 07/06/2011 4:17:01 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
You may claim you are concerned about sovereignty, and I might make that claim equally well, but Obama and Holder don't care.

Frankly, as long as we have an extradition treaty with Mexico our sovereignty is protected.

I say SEND THEM!

BTW, we have procedures for replacing Presidents and other officers. No sweat. Big country. Many choices.

53 posted on 07/06/2011 5:39:03 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: BuckeyeTexan
Mexico is like Europe. They have no official death penalty so they won't extradite someone wanted for a capital crime unless the state agrees that it won't execute them.

Europe does that too.

We could, of course, get them to change their law first ~ and there are ways aren't there

54 posted on 07/06/2011 5:40:47 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: BuckeyeTexan
BTW, we do not know with absolute certainty that Obama is a citizen ~ you know that. He's been unwilling to prove it in court and he's had plenty of chances. There is likewise little proof that any of his subordinates are US citizens either ~

You have to realize that at some point the "birther" scandal has to intersect the "gunwalker" scandal, and that appears to be in front of a Mexican court!

It's so poetic ~

55 posted on 07/06/2011 5:44:35 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: BuckeyeTexan

BTW, there’s no “hatred” in my proposal. if you’ll re-read it closely you’ll see that I recommended that Holder and Obama pack their bags and go there ON THEIR OWN because Mexico doesn’t have an official death penalty.


56 posted on 07/06/2011 5:47:58 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: BuckeyeTexan
I posted on June 4th that the Treaty can be used as a tool.

It is up to Mexico to begin extradition proceedings. No, the US does not just hand over citizens and I did not advocate that. The proceedings are a long, drawn out process that can bring to public more evidence of crimes committed on both sides of the border.

If Mexico were to begin the extradition process, the seriousness (series) of the crimes might be able to make the MSM news every night as Watergate did.

I believe that Fast & Furious is what president Hussein meant when he said that he had *Under the table gun control in the works.

57 posted on 07/06/2011 6:12:23 AM PDT by Deaf Smith
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To: muawiyah

My post #52 is not related to the death penalty. It’s about jurisdictional restrictions on extradition. Mexican law does not allow Mexico to extradite its own citizens. They agree to prosecute their citizens themselves if it’s appropriate to do so, but they won’t extradite them. Likewise, our Executive decides whether or not it will extradite an American citizen to Mexico. Those are stipulations in our treaty with Mexico unrelated to the death penalty.


58 posted on 07/06/2011 6:21:39 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: muawiyah

I realize that Obama and Holder have little use for our sovereignty as a nation. They’d love to see us acquiesce to international law, but I am against extraditing Obama or Holder to any foreign country to be prosecuted. It sets a very bad precedent.

The next step would be indictments of and extradition requests for Bush, Cheney, et al. from other countries for “war crimes.” Future administrations would not govern as they should if they must fear being extradited to foreign countries. There’s no good that can come from such a decision.

I’d love to see poetic justice for Obama, but not at the expense of our Constitutional rights as citizens. I despise that Marxist POS, but he’s the sitting POTUS. Same goes for Holder as the USAG. We simply cannot allow it.


59 posted on 07/06/2011 6:35:19 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: muawiyah

I realize that Obama and Holder have little use for our sovereignty as a nation. They’d love to see us acquiesce to international law, but I am against extraditing Obama or Holder to any foreign country to be prosecuted. It sets a very bad precedent.

The next step would be indictments of and extradition requests for Bush, Cheney, et al. from other countries for “war crimes.” Future administrations would not govern as they should if they must fear being extradited to foreign countries. There’s no good that can come from such a decision.

I’d love to see poetic justice for Obama, but not at the expense of our Constitutional rights as citizens. I despise that Marxist POS, but he’s the sitting POTUS. Same goes for Holder as the USAG. We simply cannot allow it.


60 posted on 07/06/2011 6:35:51 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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